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RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 1:03:57 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Clothes%20Articles/etiquette_for_hats_and_caps.htm

http://www.bcvc.net/hats/




As pointed out, the 'knight raising his visor' is the unversally accepted, but completely mistaken origin. 

Take  look at the space left when the visor is raised on most real world helms... you aren't going able to identify anyone by a set of beady eyes, which is why it became absolutely neccessary to cover everything with visible and decipherable coats of arms.

OTOH, the taking off of the hat inside was symbolic of removing the entire helmet as a gesture of peaceful intention...going into a home and only raising a visor would have been a bellicose gesture.


So the 'raising of the visor' meme defies common sense on two points.

Over the centuries, doffing of the helm became stylized as a rakish sweeping bow (particularly in the presence of ladies), complete with an elaborate dragging of the hat across the ground....which was rather hard on the fabric, ostrich plumes, braid, etc.

One of the European royals noticed that his young dandies were requisitioning new headgear at an expensive rate, and issued an edict that the gesture was to minimized, resulting in the modern touching of the brim salute as we know it.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 3:46:01 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

B/c it denotes the visitor isn't comfortable in their host's abode, it's the same with keeping a jacket on in the home of someone you're visiting. You remove hats/coats and it shows the host you are friendly, comfortable and OPEN.


Atleast that's the excuse. Remember that all these old fashion chilvary ideals came from the upper class society of people who ran businesses and sold inventions. "Hey Jack, I created this thing I call the Coat and Hat Rack. How can I get everyone to buy one?" "I got it, we'll make a mannerisim code to where everyone should remove there coats and hats when entering a home. That way, everyone will have to buy one to accomadate themselves and guest." "What a great idea Jack. You're the best in advertsing."

Having to remove Coats and Hats was really a scheme to sell hat racks and coat hangers as well as the dressors to store them. 

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(in reply to MissMorrigan)
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RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 3:53:54 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Fang.  My impression of your posts are that you advocate that you can just go into someone's home and do what you want because the rules of polite society don't match what you feel is appropriate.   Is this a correct impression?

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 4:00:04 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Can I wear hardhats inside a building site if there is a ceiling?
 
Yay or nay?

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(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 4:02:36 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Can I wear hardhats inside a building site if there is a ceiling?
 
Yay or nay?


That is a safety issue and a whole different set of problems.   But you are welcome to wear one in my home anytime you want.   Course my home is painted Sfety Green since I do occupational safety and health.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 7:35:15 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Can I wear hardhats inside a building site if there is a ceiling?
 
Yay or nay?


I should think that would fall under the same category of the military person being "under arms." If you are working in a hazardous area, you are "under arms."

I realize the question was not totally serious, but that answer just kind of popped into my head.

Maybe I should wear a hard hat to protect my brain from ideas like that.

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(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 7:42:26 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Fang. My impression of your posts are that you advocate that you can just go into someone's home and do what you want because the rules of polite society don't match what you feel is appropriate. Is this a correct impression?


I advocate people coming into my home and doing what I want. But that's just me.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Hats inside - 2/10/2008 10:27:08 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I don't think it means anything if I go into someone's house and decline to take off my coat.  Maybe I am depressed today and my coat is my security blanket. Maybe I have arthritus and my coat keeps me warm enough to keep from flareing up.

People should stop cooking up idea's about people's motivations about why, and when  and just be happy we came over.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 12:23:46 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Just b/c you'd like to add a touch of cynicism to this, doesn't mean you are right, Fangs, and that doesn't wash with me. I do not want someone coming into my home and sitting on my furniture, etc... wearing something designed for outdoors, that includes boots and shoes. They are left in the corner by the front door and for practical purposes. I work hard, I buy nice things, my boy and I don't wear our outdoor clothes inside, I frankly cannot fathom why a person, going into someone else's home, would want to keep on their outdoors wear unless it was to convey to them that they just weren't comfortable. The upshot is, if they don't feel comfortable in my home, leave, it's my prerogative, as it is theirs.

Regarding the manufacturing of door/coat hooks/racks, growing up most people made theirs, so there would have been a lot of very poor manufacturers of such items.
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

B/c it denotes the visitor isn't comfortable in their host's abode, it's the same with keeping a jacket on in the home of someone you're visiting. You remove hats/coats and it shows the host you are friendly, comfortable and OPEN.


Atleast that's the excuse. Remember that all these old fashion chilvary ideals came from the upper class society of people who ran businesses and sold inventions. "Hey Jack, I created this thing I call the Coat and Hat Rack. How can I get everyone to buy one?" "I got it, we'll make a mannerisim code to where everyone should remove there coats and hats when entering a home. That way, everyone will have to buy one to accomadate themselves and guest." "What a great idea Jack. You're the best in advertsing."

Having to remove Coats and Hats was really a scheme to sell hat racks and coat hangers as well as the dressors to store them. 

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 2:35:14 AM   
deliciousmorsel


Posts: 153
Joined: 9/22/2007
Status: offline 		We have central heat now. There's no reason to wear hats, or coats, inside. Kinda tacky. It does scream "Ma mama didn't raise me right".
Having actually lived in a 19th century plantation house with no heat the winter after Katrina trashed my house in NOLA, a hat is a lovely thing, helps keep one warm. So we scored fleece caps for indoors- but house rule 1 was no outdoor hats inside just as it's always been. No muddy boots, no coats, put on your sweater and special sleeping hat.
Just because we watched the end of civilization as we knew it on CNN doesn't make us barbarians. It's rude to wear a hat or coat inside. And very rude to wear muddy boots!

< Message edited by deliciousmorsel -- 2/11/2008 2:36:28 AM >

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 3:17:09 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Deliciousmorsel, there's also the practicality aspect to this. If a person dons outdoors wear it's usually to keep them warm, and by keeping it on in someone's house they're not going to feel the benefits of having it if they then go back outside again. Some posters on this thread comment about the younger generation 'not knowing'. My son is twenty-three years of age, he and his peers (even though most of his peers are from very poor backgrounds) still have the courtesy of removing their hats/coats/shoes in my home. If they're not going to, they aren't coming in!

(in reply to deliciousmorsel)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 3:21:12 AM   
Foititis


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
Just b/c you'd like to add a touch of cynicism to this, doesn't mean you are right, Fangs, and that doesn't wash with me. I do not want someone coming into my home and sitting on my furniture, etc... wearing something designed for outdoors, that includes boots and shoes. They are left in the corner by the front door and for practical purposes. I work hard, I buy nice things, my boy and I don't wear our outdoor clothes inside, I frankly cannot fathom why a person, going into someone else's home, would want to keep on their outdoors wear unless it was to convey to them that they just weren't comfortable. The upshot is, if they don't feel comfortable in my home, leave, it's my prerogative, as it is theirs.

I can understand why you wouldn't want boots and shoes on inside they may dirty or destroy your flaw, I'll even concede that coats may be wet/dirty and destroy or damage your property. You see they are actual legitimate reasons to remove the said clothing, removing a hat because 'it’s disrespectful' is quite frankly tosh. I did a mini survey (6 people) on my older family members and I asked them why it's done. Without fail I was given the reasons; ‘That’s the way we've always done it' or the always popular 'just because'. I'm sorry but to me that just screams tradition and we all know tradition is just the dead ruling the living. Again I don't wear hats but I'll be damned if I abide a dead person's idea of what polite is.  
  

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 3:36:38 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		That may be so, Foititis, however, I'm sure that most people that denounce traditions also have a tendency to celebrate Christmas while claiming they are of no particular religion. The fact is, I don't care what goes on in other people's homes, that's for them to govern, I state what goes on in mine and if someone refuses to remove their outer clothing (including hat), they aren't coming in. I've seen some filthy hats, they tend to be less washed than any other item of outerwear, that I would not want resting up against my furnishings.

(in reply to Foititis)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 3:42:33 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I abhor hats of the baseball cap variety. I would consider it wrong to wear coats or hats inside or shoes if the homeowner wanted you to take them off. If a coat was kept on you would make the person whos home you were in feel bad like you were waiting to run out quickly. I dont like hats in doors. Its not professional unless you are a repairman or work where your hair needs to be covered.

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(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 3:50:41 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I agree, Luscious. What others are comfortable with inside their home is fine, I'm not going to tell another person what is/isn't right for them. But in my own home, people behave as I expect them to, and that's to respect my wishes. While growing up, no one wore hats/outdoors clothing inside - some posters think it an extension of tradition, while there is an element to that, I agree, it's more to do with openness and mutual respect - keeping outdoors wear on suggests hostility, albeit on a minor level. Even repair men would remove their caps. What I see now going on are some people stating it's their 'right' not to remove their caps and dress as they wish, and to an extent they are right - provided it's in their own homes. Coming into mine they observe my restrictions.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 5:45:13 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
The fact is, I don't care what goes on in other people's homes, that's for them to govern, I state what goes on in mine and if someone refuses to remove their outer clothing (including hat), they aren't coming in.


While i can certainly respect the "my house, my rules" policy (rule #1: cats have the right of way), i'm just curious- do you ever get people asking "are you serious?"? i think i'd just be floored if someone insisted on my removing my hat to enter a private home.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 5:48:31 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		To answer honestly, no. No one has yet actually asked why and I think that has largely to do with people automatically removing them, whether they be in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. I have, however, to the occasional teen, explained why I didn't want it worn in my home and I've never had one person offended by this either.

(in reply to petdave)
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RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 5:49:59 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

While i can certainly respect the "my house, my rules" policy (rule #1: cats have the right of way), i'm just curious- do you ever get people asking "are you serious?"? i think i'd just be floored if someone insisted on my removing my hat to enter a private home.



I have been told that I had no right to ask that they remove their hat or pull their pants up when they come in my home.    Most were just escorted out the door.   5 were escorted out with my rifle, since they pulled knives on me.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 5:53:00 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Ken, can you explain yourself a little better, with some background there as I'm a little confused by what you have just stated. Are you saying that you invited a large group of persons into your home, and when you asked them to remove their hats five of them pulled knives on you?!?

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Hats inside - 2/11/2008 5:58:17 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry  they came to see my grand daughter and she let them in.   I came in the room and told them that they should remove their hats, hold the noise down, and pull their pants up or they could leave.   That is when they pulled the knife and told me that I had no right to say shit they were here to see her.   Since I was right next to my bedroom, I got Mr Rifle and escorted them out the door.     I lived in a rough neighborhood.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 80
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