RE: Before you Vote for Billary?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Before you Vote for Billary?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Before you Vote for Billary?

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 6 [7]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 6:25:53 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Hmm let me see.. actualy having *been* in the white house before...

Many have been in the white house, does not necessarily give them experience in anything other than where the bathroom is.

quote:

personaly knowing the key players at those high levels. Having personal contacts from being in Washington for 2 terms with her husband..

Yeah, the politics as usual crowd. We need more of them like we need to order more helmets from the Sioux Corp.

quote:

having her husbands contacts. Having her own contacts from her time in the senate.

This I give a little more credence to. Hopefully it will not be advisors that advised Bill on NAFTA.

quote:

She is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She also passed legislation to track the health status of the troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed. She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves. So appaerntly she does care about what is going on with the troops. Having served on the Senate Armed Services Committe that should help. She has a lot more experiance in office then her counterpart.

Gwyn

The above does not wash on qualifications.

Seperate question for you: Does her connections to the Chinese concern you at all?

Does her ceonnections to some Mega Corps concern you at all?

Does her declining to allow some information about her business dealings to be made public record concern you at all?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Gwynvyd)

Post #: 121

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 6:19:36 PM

knees2you

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Little miss Hitlery doesnt belong in office..I'm glad her ass is failing..and not soon enough. As for Mr Obama. I hope to god The old fart McCain wins and keeps the Islam out of the office.. Mr Obama has already publicly stated that if he is elected president..He will not put his hand on the bible once he sworn in. No no no..He wants the? Koran. Idiot..Keep that islam ass out of the Oval office! But A real American in there! and lets prey he doesnt kill over while on office.. Good lord..

Death to Islam.

I work for the Bellagio Hotel and we are Union,
and The culinary has already decided on Obama.
Because he will walk a picket line.

quote:

"Stupid is as Stupid does!"

As always, ant

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 122

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 6:41:10 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Ummmm folks who are anti- [universal] healthcare.
There are countries besides England that have it....in fact we are the exception rather than the rule.

And for most of the people who live in those countries it works very well.

You aren't going to make pie with the few rotten apples in the bushell are you?

How about instead of saying why it might not work, doing the research and see how it might actually be possible.

Ah hahaha you cracked me up, woman. Rightards actually doing research and thinking things through? Ah hahaha.

PHYSICIANS for a National Health Program.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#socialized
I'll bet not a single rightard will click the link.

Rightards are so uptight about money and taxes and shit. Well, a Single-Payer system will put the US on a much more competetitive economic footing with respect to other industrialized nations. More exports = more jobs = more taxes to pay for healthcare. And to fix our bridges, roads, airports, and other infrastructure. Duh.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 123

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 7:04:03 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

when the gov gets so corrupt and the people are to lazy to fix it go socialism! (gag)

I am surprised that people never wake up and if they want less than they have now? "go socialism"!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 124

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 7:53:16 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

Universal health care violates the 10th amendment to the Constitution. I can't imagine the government being able to create a system that is more effective than our current one. (Note: I also agree our current one is broken. I just don't think government is the answer.)

Yeah, the old 10th amendment argument. Been debunked so many times in so many places that I won't even bother. Free Silver too, right?
That is a pretty limited imagination you must have. Well, luckily, you don't need one. France and Canada both have excellent systems which could be copied at first and then tweaked.
Now you say Government isn't the answer. Uh, don't know if you've noticed, but the current system is, as you admit, broken, and it got there with the private sector calling all the shots. They're doing everything they can to get as muc money as they can before We the Peeple get tired of CEOs getting 10 million dollar bonuses and private jets while 47 million AMERICANS can't get decent healthcare. 30% of gross profits go towards marketing drugs, including junkets and fancy dinners and shit for doctors and PAs. That "OH, those poor drug companies need to charge so much to cover research" is bullshit. 10% to research (and there are special tax rules for that) vs. 30% for pushin' the drugs. Okey-doke.

Why is it I NEVER hear any of you people bitching about the $150 BILLION in corporate welfare that gets pissed away every year? Why in the fuck does Exxon need an exclusion on E&P costs, or ADM need a subsidy for corn? That money could pay for over 1/3 of the insurance for Americans if we had a system like Canada's. We'd have a health-care SURPLUS.

(in reply to carlie310)

Post #: 125

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 8:03:04 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Ummmm folks who are anti- [universal] healthcare.
There are countries besides England that have it....in fact we are the exception rather than the rule.

And for most of the people who live in those countries it works very well.

You aren't going to make pie with the few rotten apples in the bushell are you?

How about instead of saying why it might not work, doing the research and see how it might actually be possible.

Ah hahaha you cracked me up, woman. Rightards actually doing research and thinking things through? Ah hahaha.

PHYSICIANS for a National Health Program.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#socialized
I'll bet not a single rightard will click the link.

Rightards are so uptight about money and taxes and shit. Well, a Single-Payer system will put the US on a much more competetitive economic footing with respect to other industrialized nations. More exports = more jobs = more taxes to pay for healthcare. And to fix our bridges, roads, airports, and other infrastructure. Duh.

I am rather amusing aren't I?

thanks for posting that link...

(heaven forbid we be on more on par with other industrialized nations....egads!)

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 126

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 8:08:47 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Section VI of the U.S. Constitution states:
"...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Do try to get with the program, toddlefeet...

I know sometimes it seems like we are in a post-constitutional era, but if you think that means the rest of us are going to allow people with completely idotic ideas to take over - well, think again.

and that was the correct point to make....never mind about mine...except the urban legend as fact thing kinda ticks me off....

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 127

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 8:12:17 PM

carlie310

Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

Universal health care violates the 10th amendment to the Constitution. I can't imagine the government being able to create a system that is more effective than our current one. (Note: I also agree our current one is broken. I just don't think government is the answer.)

Yeah, the old 10th amendment argument. Been debunked so many times in so many places that I won't even bother.

Oh, just for kicks and grins. . .bother. Or is your point that the 10th has been violated so many times, people hardly notice any more? I'll cede that one. But it's never been repealed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Now you say Government isn't the answer.

Yup. That's what I say. The federal government, that is. Why do you believe it is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Why is it I NEVER hear any of you people bitching about the $150 BILLION in corporate welfare that gets pissed away every year? Why in the fuck does Exxon need an exclusion on E&P costs, or ADM need a subsidy for corn? That money could pay for over 1/3 of the insurance for Americans if we had a system like Canada's. We'd have a health-care SURPLUS.

First off, I wonder which "you people" you think I am? And second, how do you know what I have or have not bitched about?

And finally, I wonder why you think that with the muck that the federal gov't has made screwing around with the corn subsidies, etc, you think the 3rd party payor system is going to improve with more government intervention?

Show me a success story--something our federal government has actually fixed despite the bureaucracy and bloat that accompanies it. FEMA? NCLB? HUD? Which one of those programs is the shining star you want our health care system to mirror?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 128

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 8:12:50 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toddlefeet

Little miss Hitlery doesnt belong in office..I'm glad her ass is failing..and not soon enough. As for Mr Obama. I hope to god The old fart McCain wins and keeps the Islam out of the office.. Mr Obama has already publicly stated that if he is elected president..He will not put his hand on the bible once he sworn in. No no no..He wants the? Koran. Idiot..Keep that islam ass out of the Oval office! But A real American in there! and lets prey he doesnt kill over while on office.. Good lord..

Death to Islam.

I'll bet ole toddlefeets got one o them thar email thingies that one o them right-wing hate groups done made up and sent out ta all the faithful tellin' all them lies about Senator Obama. Lahk he flushes bibles down the commode n eats good White Christian babies n smokes heroin cee-gars n he's gonna take all Bubba's guns away so's the UN can march in n take over the country so's they can all have blonde female slaves n get outta payin' all them tickets in New York City n he's gonna disband the military n bring all our boys and girls home from Eye-rak where they're protectin' the Holy Oil Patch for them good ole boys at the Petroleum Club in Houston. He's gonna try and ban pork too I'll betcha. That sneaky Muslin's gonna put UBL up in the White House too.

Oh Lordy! Oh Lordy! Them Muslin nigras gettin' too damn uppity! Where's the rope?

(in reply to toddlefeet)

Post #: 129

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 9:09:46 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

Well, carlie310, here's Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and
Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general
Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States;"
Provide for the common defence and General Welfare... I'd say having citizens in good health is providing for the general welfare, myself.

Next up, I want a Single-Payer system, as explained in the link I so thoughtfully provided.
I didn't say I think the Federal Govt is THE answer; it IS an answer. In Canada, the Provinces have their own financing arrangements. No reason why the States couldn't here. Just make it a state deduction rather than federal.

Thirdly, "You People" are righties and Libertarians (a co-opted word which means, in the US, unfettered Capitalism). You're not?

Lastly, I note that almost everything the Bush administration has touched has turned to shit. They've underfunded almost everything except transfer payments to military contractors - even the VA. Really "support the troops", don't they? Medicare has worked pretty well; it has actuarial problems, to be sure, but the concept is sound.

On NPR this afternoon was a doctor, did a survey of the positions on health care of all the Prez candidates. Not one of them addresses Primary care, which is where the bulk of our efforts need to be, in his opinion (and mine). Interesting stuff.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 2/15/2008 9:11:10 PM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 130

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 10:23:21 PM

carlie310

Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

I hoped that you were going to give a legal explanation rather than just tell me what you'd say general welfare means, so if you could take another stab at it, that'd be great. But you might want to take a look at Federalist Paper #41, which disagrees with what you'd say.

Yes, I do appreciate the link to the single-payor site, since it saved me the trouble of looking it up. I haven't researched that enough to know whether I think it's a solution--I've said a couple of times in this thread I thought it was worth investigating. Since I clicked the link, I assume that disqualifies me as "rightie" in your book, so I'll skip over your ad hominems for now, 'mkay? (Keep them up, and I will get bored and wander away. If you want to debate my political leanings, you just might have to do that alone.)

And lastly, the Dept of Education (which I intended to change the NCLB reference to, but forgot, I'm sorry) & the other gov't programs I mentioned were shit before Daddy Bush was in office, let alone W. He didn't help, but his messes weren't the beginning. Medicare's problems aren't solely actuarial, and I'd hesitate to hold them up as your example. Or was that your intent?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 131

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 10:43:16 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toddlefeet

Little miss Hitlery doesnt belong in office..I'm glad her ass is failing..and not soon enough. As for Mr Obama. I hope to god The old fart McCain wins and keeps the Islam out of the office.. Mr Obama has already publicly stated that if he is elected president..He will not put his hand on the bible once he sworn in. No no no..He wants the? Koran. Idiot..Keep that islam ass out of the Oval office! But A real American in there! and lets prey he doesnt kill over while on office.. Good lord..

Death to Islam.

A lie that even FauxNews has had to give up pushing.

(in reply to toddlefeet)

Post #: 132

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/15/2008 11:20:11 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

I hoped that you were going to give a legal explanation rather than just tell me what you'd say general welfare means, so if you could take another stab at it, that'd be great. But you might want to take a look at Federalist Paper #41, which disagrees with what you'd say.

Yes, I do appreciate the link to the single-payor site, since it saved me the trouble of looking it up. I haven't researched that enough to know whether I think it's a solution--I've said a couple of times in this thread I thought it was worth investigating. Since I clicked the link, I assume that disqualifies me as "rightie" in your book, so I'll skip over your ad hominems for now, 'mkay? (Keep them up, and I will get bored and wander away. If you want to debate my political leanings, you just might have to do that alone.)

And lastly, the Dept of Education (which I intended to change the NCLB reference to, but forgot, I'm sorry) & the other gov't programs I mentioned were shit before Daddy Bush was in office, let alone W. He didn't help, but his messes weren't the beginning. Medicare's problems aren't solely actuarial, and I'd hesitate to hold them up as your example. Or was that your intent?

Oh, I know that Medicare has other problems. The biggest problem I see, though, is the same one SS faces: an increasing number of retirees, and a decreasing number of worker-bees. There really isn't a US equivalent to the Canadian or British or French systems. Medicare comes closest, as far as I can tell.

I suppose one could have to decide what one wants from any governmental agency: efficiency or effectiveness? FEMA was neither for Katrina, Nor have been most governmental agencies. I lay the lion's share of blame at Bush's doorstep, as it was he who turned the government into a pig trough for his cronies much more than any President in the 20th century that I am aware of.

I'll look at the Federalist Paper tomorrow. Seems to me, though, that one could make the case that what the 10th amendment allows or doesn't allow is also a matter of personal interpretation.

(in reply to carlie310)

Post #: 133

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/16/2008 1:34:46 AM

Zmey

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

I'm all for it. Soviets had free everything and I think my generation had a pretty good childhood. I know I did. I certainly didn't have to worry about going to the dentist and dental care in Russia was rudimentary to say the least.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 134

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/16/2008 2:16:38 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zmey

I'm all for it. Soviets had free everything and I think my generation had a pretty good childhood. I know I did. I certainly didn't have to worry about going to the dentist and dental care in Russia was rudimentary to say the least.

From people I have talked with, and from what I have read, Soviet Life (was a magazine called that; I used to get it when I was 16 or so) was not as hard as Western propaganda made out. The USSR could have done some very great things if she had not been forced to compete against the Hawks in DC. We were brought up that Russia was evil, godless, just the worst thing to have ever happened to the Earth. Any serious student of History will soon learn that the Capitalists in the US were the driving force behind the "Cold War". They could not, and still cannot, stand the thought of markets and economies they don't control. Hence Iraq. Saddam threatened an oil Bourse which traded with Euros. I digress. The US has been on a war footing since the end of WWII, and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact gave the Hawks in DC some grandious new ideas... "let's control the world's oil! It is, after all, a matter of national Security, and, since WE are the nation, it is US who are threatened. It is OUR security.""

SO they trumped up this little war under the guise of WMDs (let's forget that the US of A has more WMDs than any other nation on Earth, and HAS USED THEM.

There are still millions of morons wandering around the country ranting and raving about 'Commies". Who thinks E. Germans or Poles or Russians are wandering around wanking off about Capitalist Pig Yanks? I never met any. SO who is crazy?

(in reply to Zmey)

Post #: 135

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? - 2/16/2008 3:37:55 AM

Zmey

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

Hippiekinkster
Yes propaganda on both sides exaggerated a lot of facts. That's the reason main reason of propaganda. We've been told some paranoid delusions about Challanger's disaster. I still remember weekly drills with gas masks and trips to the basement.

Not that I particularly approve the course of current administration, there are nuts every where. Putin and his gang seem to like old ways but no matter how tight any given government controls the population there are always free radicals. I don't think there are such a thing as absolute control. The collapse ware instigated by ideas within and not by pressure from outside. Sure Snickers, McDonald's and Coke Cola played a vital role. When I was migrating I remember graphite in Moscow right across from US Embassy. It was written clear and without any spelling errors 'Yankees go home!!x10!'. Recent report on 'Putin's youth' was somewhat disturbing... but not surprising. Political landscape in Russia as dynamic as any other. Hell, there are neo-nazis in Israel.
As exiting as it sounds I don't really buy into 'Scull and Bones, Illuminati CT's. Absolute control is impossible.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 136

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 6 [7]

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Before you Vote for Billary?

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 6 [7]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.096