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Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 4:06:59 PM

transcontinental

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

I was curious as to how the people here, and in the general BDSM community, feel about transsexuals. So a list of questions

Do you consider a pre-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

Do you consider a post-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

If you have a gender preference in a Dom/me or sub, do you avoid transsexual members of that gender?

(edit: thank you for the suggestion LadyAngelika, I wrote this out too quickly and it was worded in a rather confusing way)

< Message edited by transcontinental -- 9/10/2005 4:33:56 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 4:20:47 PM

Delvin

Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

what she/he sees herself/himself as is what is important, then, its a matter of what area I need them in at that time. TS/TGs are fine as long as they are working towards what they need, man to woman, woman to man, to make them complete.

I prefer women slaves but have always considered a TS/TG during my process as they are inside, a woman, or woman to be. It's the ugly duck to swan syndrome that we all in some small part do, our exterior self seems to sometimes dictate our inner-self.

ykiok

Master D

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 2

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 4:23:30 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: transcontinental

I was curious as to how the people here, and in the general BDSM community, feel about transsexuals. So a list of questions

Do you consider a pre-op transsexual to be a man/woman?

I would 'consider' them to be whatever sexual preference they desired to be acknowledged as.

quote:

Post-op?

Again, as above.

quote:

If you have a gender preference in a Dom/me or sub, do you avoid transsexual members of that gender?

No.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 3

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 4:26:44 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I was curious as to how the people here, and in the general BDSM community, feel about transsexuals. So a list of questions

quote:

Do you consider a pre-op transsexual to be a man/woman?

I consider them to be what they identify themselves as.

quote:

Post-op?

I consider them to be what they identify themselves as.

quote:

If you have a gender preference in a Dom/me or sub, do you avoid transsexual members of that gender?

No. I personally don't.

I just want to point out that your first two questions are going to cause confusion because a transexual can be MtoF or FtoM as I'm sure you already know. So, I would recommend the following question:

Do you consider a pre-op transexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?
Do you consider a post-op transexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 4

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 4:41:11 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

It isn't a matter of what I consider, it's a matter of what they -are-.

A transexual individual is biologically of the sex they were born, however they -are- the gender they know they are. I think an individual knows his/her own gender better than an outside observer.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 5

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 5:03:41 PM

transcontinental

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

It isn't a matter of what I consider, it's a matter of what they -are-.

A transexual individual is biologically of the sex they were born, however they -are- the gender they know they are. I think an individual knows his/her own gender better than an outside observer.

I'm quite aware of this, being TS myself, however despite this many people do not consider us to be what we truly and rightfully are. The question was simply meant to see if people on this message board, and to a lesser extent in the BDSM lifestyle in general, are tolerant of people such as myself. Perhaps I should have made that clearer.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 6

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 5:53:29 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I think that anyone who was not tolerant of any community, not just the one you relate to (TS) wouldnt be worth your time and energy anyway.

You are what you are - IMO anyway - no one can tell you what to do, who to be or what to be.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 7

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 8:29:22 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I don't have many answers to these questions but I will say:

In general, yes, I avoid transsexual partners. Why is this? I'm not open-minded enough to consider a transsexual person as a partner. I *have* been attracted to a few butch lesbians (as a submissive), but I don't know that I could handle that on a sexual level. I also have a sexual attraction to men who look like women but have their penises in tact and plan to stay that way (and I have no idea what the term for that is).

BTW, from what I have followed in the feminist community, "sex" is biological, gender is sociological, so one can, in theory, be biologically sexed one way, and sociologically gendered in another way.

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 8

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 8:59:18 PM

KCMOLucky

Posts: 121
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Kansas City, Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

I don't have many answers to these questions but I will say:

In general, yes, I avoid transsexual partners. Why is this? I'm not open-minded enough to consider a transsexual person as a partner. I *have* been attracted to a few butch lesbians (as a submissive), but I don't know that I could handle that on a sexual level. I also have a sexual attraction to men who look like women but have their penises in tact and plan to stay that way (and I have no idea what the term for that is).

BTW, from what I have followed in the feminist community, "sex" is biological, gender is sociological, so one can, in theory, be biologically sexed one way, and sociologically gendered in another way.

Ditto. I couldn't have said it better.

As a whole, yeah, I'm not interested in TS. I might not be comfotable with it, I may not understand it...I don't really know. But I'm never cruel, or rude, to anyone who asks if I have an interest. To me, it's on the same plane as bodily fluids, or knife play: It's not something I'm interested, but I'm not going to judge you for your kink, or preferences.

Hugs, Mary

_____________________________

I don't have PMS, I just disagree with you.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 9

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 9:14:12 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

dark~angel//

LadyAngelika//

===================
ditto

wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 10

RE: Transsexuals - 9/10/2005 10:17:21 PM

transcontinental

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KCMOLucky

It's not something I'm interested, but I'm not going to judge you for your kink, or preferences.

I respect your choice, but I must say, whatever you may think, being TS is neither a kink nor a preference for the TS. It's the way we are born, or at least that is what I and most others I know believe. (the fact that a great number of people fetishize us, espeically pre-ops, is neither here nor there)

(in reply to KCMOLucky)

Post #: 11

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 9:34:13 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

Different strokes for different folks. Some prefer blondes to brunettes <wink>

Do not let your being transsexual hinder you from exploring this 'lifestyle'.

Just be yourself & be honest.

I have been actively involved in this type of lifestyle for nearly 20yrs. My wish to have a full time relationship with a submissive partner has always been my desire. I met my current partner who is also seeking this almost 2 yrs ago & she is a M2F transsexual. I had never really considered a relationship with a transsexual. I had never pursued anything past friendships until we met.

As our friendship grew stronger it was impossible to deny that what I felt for her was merely a friendship. I had to overcome the tug of war of orientation on an internal level... & to a small degree I still really don't know where I fit in... <smile>.

All I can say is that I found the perfect partner & the perfect submissive that had eluded me for many years. When it all boiled down, gender had nothing to do with it... compatibility, communication, mutual respect & unconditional love was all that really mattered.

I wish you luck in your search.

MstrssPassion

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 12

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 11:19:22 AM

WickedKev

Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline

I know quite a few transexuals and have played with some, but most that I know are Domme. I consider anyone to be what they feel themselves to be. As for taking one as a sub/slave, can't say I ever thought about it, if I was attracted to one and thier mind enticed me enough I see no reason why I wouldn't.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 13

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 11:33:18 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

am admittedly biased, being transgendered though not transsexual...

quote:

Do you consider a pre-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

Do you consider a post-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

each as it applies: if female but a "man". i consider them to be both (a female by sex/structure, a man by personhood) until a change is made in their body type... and vice versa for a male who is a "woman".

in short, who they *are* as a person is the gender they are, not the sex.

quote:

If you have a gender preference in a Dom/me or sub, do you avoid transsexual members of that gender?

not really applicable for me... as in most of the many ways i relate to others, i go by the individual. i don't have a specific preference of gender.

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 14

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 1:26:15 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Biologically they will never be what they desire. No operation will fix that.

However many who are not trans will never be what they really should be.

So, I feel you are what you are. Just let me know what that is when we meet so I can treat you the way you'd like to be treated.

HOWEVER, running a group and having several trans people within it. I know first hand how hard it is to be accepted. Many will say here it is easy and acceptable. Unfortunately here is not the real world. So, my suggestion is always ask first how they feel.
In a perfect world you would not have to but unfortunately we don't live in one.

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 15

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 2:52:10 PM

transcontinental

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Biologically they will never be what they desire. No operation will fix that.

Nope, never exactly. But an MtF with good surgery results can pass as an infertile natural female with problems self lubricating. Still, even if I manage to attain that, I don't think the idea of doing anything intimate with someone without them knowing is right. Easier maybe, but still not right. And of course, this, like many things, seems to apply equally to D/s relationships and vanilla relationships.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 16

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 3:05:03 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

I can't speak for the general community, but in our household, we consider people in the manner in which they prefer to see themselves. If a TG sees hirself as a particular gender, that is how we refer to hir, before or after the surgery. We don't avoid, and don't make a big deal about -asking- about this, unless it is volunteered. If they're a good fit for us, they're a good fit, irrelevant of the shell.

I am not my body.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: transcontinental

I was curious as to how the people here, and in the general BDSM community, feel about transsexuals. So a list of questions

Do you consider a pre-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

Do you consider a post-op transsexual to be their "biological gender" or the gender they identify as?

If you have a gender preference in a Dom/me or sub, do you avoid transsexual members of that gender?

(edit: thank you for the suggestion LadyAngelika, I wrote this out too quickly and it was worded in a rather confusing way)

(in reply to transcontinental)

Post #: 17

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 4:20:26 PM

RosaB

Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

In response to OP

For me, I see a TS as someone born into the wrong physical body. If you feel you are a woman or man, then as long as i'm aware, taking into account the circumstances under which we meet, that's how I will relate to that person. What I mean by depending on the circumstances is that if I meet someone and for outward appearances you look female, but consider yourself male, you would have to tell me your prefer in order for me to not continue to relate to you as your being one way or the other.

Would I play with someone that falls into the catagory of being a TS, it depends. Since my preference is to be with a man, that is a man in every physical and emotional sense of how I see a man, I wouldn't want to play with a person that sees themself as not male. To me I would feel that I'm being with a woman, which at this time I have no desire to explore bdsm with. Not that it's written in stone mine you. I never say never.

Actually, now that I think back a year or so, I met someone that was a male-female TS. Because was new to the scene, and I did form a bit of a friendship with this person, I did offer to put them in bondage just so they could experience something they so much wanted to, but just couldn't get anyone to do it. Problem was, the person wanted more from the experience than to be tied up, they wanted something more sexual in nature and that wasn't going to happen, so I had to pass. She was just too female for me to go beyone the point of just simple bondage and light nonsexual play. Unfortunately that put a strain on the budding friendship.

Rosa

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 18

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 4:39:49 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I have yet to meet a single solitary person who is anything other than straight, biologically and sociologically male, white, vanilla, and upper middle class (and sometimes not even them!) who said that *anything* in life was easy and acceptable.

If life were easy and acceptable, it wouldn't be worth living.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 19

RE: Transsexuals - 9/11/2005 6:19:01 PM

night101owl

Posts: 83
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline

Gender is a construct, and so a person is simply the gender which ze identifies as, regardless of operative status, and regardless of whether that gender fits into the conventional binary system.

There are a lot of different medical and surgical procedures available that alter a person's biological sex. Sex itself isn't something that can clearly be determined, since it depends on a number of biophysical factors-- hormones, external gonads, internal organs, and chromosomes are some of the more well known. Not everyone is born with all in the same category, and many people undergo alterations to one or more categories without changing their sex (for example, women who have had hysterectomies). It is error to say that, for example, an MtF woman is biologically male, since she may have undergone hormone therapy, surgical reassignment, and who knows how her chromosomes are arranged (not everyone is XX or XY), to the point where she has more indications in the F category than the M, until she can be accurately described as biologically female.

It should be noted that these procedures are far more available to people with money, and people without money should not be ostracized if their "biological sex" doesn't match up with their gender. A person should be treated as the gender with which they identify, period.

There is no reason in the world to expect transsexuals to consider themselves kinky, or to see TS as a fetish.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 20

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