RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


vic9594 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 7:30:58 PM)

Prejudice and racism in all its forms did not originate in the south nor does it only reside there. It is in every part of the globe and has been from time memorial. Man has always tried to subjugate Man by making one group less human than another. By doing so Man excuses this horrific behave. I do not believe this will ever change as long as Man exists, but I do hope for it. If it is not the color of skin it will be culture, if not culture it will be country or something else just as silly like, weight, eye color, hair, car, etc. Anything that may set one Man apart from another has been or will be used to do the most vial things and subjugate one Man or Woman under another. This is not a doomsday message but, it is a warning. Until each Man or Woman on this plant is willing to set aside their fears and hatred and take each person with an open mind prejudice and racism will reign free no matter where you may be in this world.




vic9594 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 7:33:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2


i just thought this deserved a second read. maybe someone else will read it and give it some thought as well. the answer is not an easy fix, as the author implies. life isn't simple.


I don't believe there is an easy fix. One hundred and forty years after the American Civil War, race relations are still a hot topic.

The news media presents us with all these stories about poor black people, and the more I see these stories the more I feel polarized in exactly the opposite direction that lovingmaster45 has gone.

It's money. After Kanye (sp?) West made his famous statement, I psst'd a black co-worker in a dark corner of the shop: "psst....George Bush doesn't care about black people." He responded: "I've known that for a long time." I said: "I don't think he's particularly concerned about my white ass, either." He said: "Well, you work here. I assume you don't have money, either. "

It IS money. Money talks. People staying at the Hilton evacuated before people at the Superdome had money of some sort, or were of a certain "class" of people. I'm sure there were at least a few white people stranded in the mess. They don't make as good press as the black majority.

money talks indeed. have the current lawmakers ever had a fathom of a clue about the working man/woman in this country? have they known cold winds without a coat to keep warm? how many will cry over one single life lost in the 9th ward of new orleans? being poor in a country where the line is narrowing between poor and middle class isn't a good place to be.

however, as it's also not so simple to be just about money, one needs to consider how things would go in other towns. if it were new york evacuating, do you think the folks in harlem would be on the first train? or how about from the south side of chicago, east st. louis, or roxbury, boston? the focus is so often on the dumb southerners whose demographics traditionally showed areas of high concentrations of poor blacks put there by the wealthy white folks; interesting how the northerners less publically have produced the same situation.

<edited x2 by me in response to someone's point>

Prejudice and racism in all their forms did not originate in the south nor does it only reside there. It is in every part of the globe and has been from time memorial. Man has always tried to subjugate Man by making one group less human than another. By doing so Man excuses this horrific behavior. I do not believe this will ever change as long as Man exists, but I do hope for it. If it is not the color of skin it will be culture, if not culture it will be country or something else just as silly like, weight, eye color, hair, car, etc. Anything that may set one Man apart from another has been or will be used to do the most vial things and subjugate one Man or Woman under another. This is not a doomsday message but, it is a warning. Until each Man or Woman on this planet is willing to set aside their fears and hatred and take each person with an open mind prejudice and racism will reign free no matter where you may be in this world.




bj1960 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 8:14:27 PM)

BlkTallFullfig What you wrote was the most truth I have ever read! I hope I have your permission to print it out So I may show it to like mined people. they are very important insights.


Y’all are talking .about something that comes a bit close to home for me personally. We have adopted a family of six here in St. Louis. Two sisters and their four kids. They got out on day four and were lucky enough to have been rescued on the 4th day. . (god I have never eaten such wonderful food) I am lucky in that I have a huge house and we only have 5 people living here.

One Mom sat on the roof and waved for help while the other stayed in the attic with the kids. I have listed to what they went though. My view is more than a little jaded.
The baby (she is 3) will not bate unless her mom showers with her. The oldest boy will not sleep alone he is bunking in with my son who is 14 he is 10.

Our wonderful president did not care if they were black or white he just didn’t care , They were the working poor. The servants. No cash type people. He needs to be impeached. He did not even bother to leave his vacation till day 2. And yet consensual sex was more important to our country than the fact 1000 people are dead? I firmly believe it actually had more to do with class than it did with race. However that said, they way the meda delt with it did in fact have more to do with race than I believe our government. My new friends will be moving out this week and will have homes of their own soon. But I have friends for life! Not just because I helped them but because
my life is not much diffent(Sp?) then theirs. At least is socio- econmic terms ( I am sorry I have dislexia and can’t spell for beans and an=m lost when the spell check is)

Now what I have kept reading on this thread has been about race. Ummm I live in the city in St. Louis not because there is no were else I could live but because of the diversity, I am the child of very white middle class parents..My dad was a collage professor. We live in a very culturally rich area. My son when he was little used to play with other kids he could not talk to because they had not learned English yet . His life is richer and so is mine. We have friends , Some are different than we are but we just learn from one another and life in this way life is good.

We cannot be and should not be color blind because to do that would mean we would not be realistic to the pain and difficulties of some of out closest friends. Not just black , but gay, Sub, Dom, Afghani. Iranian, Korean, Taiwanese, Japanese. I am white and have been though hell , but I am also aware I have been given chances that others would not have been given just because they were not white. Am I a bigot? In many ways I still am. I was born in 1960 the civil rights moment was alive and well ! But I have raise a child who is not.


BJ

TY for letting me vent







BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 10:20:11 PM)

quote:

BlkTallFullfig What you wrote was the most truth I have ever read! I hope I have your permission to print it out So I may show it to like mined people. they are very important insights.
I'm flattered that you read it, and it meant something to you.
The reason I say it over and over, is so that once in a while a mind which is still open learns something that I know and feel in my mind and heart. M




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 10:24:01 PM)

quote:

Anything that may set one Man apart from another has been or will be used to do the most vial things and subjugate one Man or Woman under another. This is not a doomsday message but, it is a warning. Until each Man or Woman on this plant is willing to set aside their fears and hatred and take each person with an open mind prejudice and racism will reign free no matter where you may be in this world.
Agreed! It's why I responded earlier that the choice to have an open mind, respect others, and treat people with diginity has to be a conscious choice. M




bj1960 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/24/2005 10:46:25 PM)

quote:

Agreed! It's why I responded earlier that the choice to have an open mind, respect others, and treat people with diginity has to be a conscious choice. M


It is what it means to be truly human.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 2:40:02 AM)

quote:

It's money. After Kanye (sp?) West made his famous statement, I psst'd a black co-worker in a dark corner of the shop: "psst....George Bush doesn't care about black people." He responded: "I've known that for a long time." I said: "I don't think he's particularly concerned about my white ass, either." He said: "Well, you work here. I assume you don't have money, either. "

It IS money. Money talks. People staying at the Hilton evacuated before people at the Superdome had money of some sort, or were of a certain "class" of people. I'm sure there were at least a few white people stranded in the mess. They don't make as good press as the black majority.
Though it is impossible to divorce race and class in the US, believe it when I tell you, it's race first, than it's money.
Your example of poor whites being in the same boat as blacks would be accurate if it wasn't a case of apples and oranges comparison: It needs to be rich black compared to rich white, and poor black compared to poor white. Oftentimes when a black person says "I've experienced A, B, and C", some unfortunate white person through a whole set of circumstances (almost never having to do with his skin hue) says I've experienced it too, but that is never a fair comparison. The fate of a whole group ought not be compared to the fate of "the lowest common denominator."
No offense meant, just stated to illustrate my point. M




pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 3:09:07 AM)

i have a black girlfriend -- a law school professor who is the brightest person i know -- and i once asked her "what matters more to people? That you are a woman, or that you are black?"

Her answer is "That i am black."

pinkpleasures




pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 3:15:52 AM)

quote:

Prejudice and racism in all their forms did not originate in the south nor does it only reside there.

vic9594


There is a subtle difference in the racism of the south and north; probably due more to macro-economics than anything else. Up north, we herd people of color into the projects and then say we are aghast that people cannot live safe, sane lives there. Down south there are still slave shacks, occupied by blacks of course, in which a screen on a window is a luxury.

i think there are other differences btw the north and south; but it matters not. What counts is what is in a person's heart.

pinkpleasures




JohnWarren -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 5:59:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
]There is a subtle difference in the racism of the south and north; probably due more to macro-economics than anything else. Up north, we herd people of color into the projects and then say we are aghast that people cannot live safe, sane lives there. Down south there are still slave shacks, occupied by blacks of course, in which a screen on a window is a luxury.


I think my platoon sgt put it well: "Up north people don't care how big you get as long as you don't get too close. Down here, people don't care how close you get as long as you don't get too big.

Side note: I was talking to the sociologist Michele Buchanan a while back and she made an interesting observation on the effect of housing desegregation in the north. When she was a child the "black areas" had thriving social and cultural opportunities. African Americans were forced to live their regardless of their education or employment. When desegregation arrived, many of the "upper class" blacks (the lawyers, professors, doctors and such) left. In her view this explains much of the problems that exist in those areas now.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 6:12:07 AM)

quote:

African Americans were forced to live their regardless of their education or employment. When desegregation arrived, many of the "upper class" blacks (the lawyers, professors, doctors and such) left. In her view this explains much of the problems that exist in those areas now.
I agree with you... I know several people who say "I will not leave the Hood to prove I'm real, and I support my brothers in the struggle", but the hood is not as well protected as wealthy neighborhoods in terms of schooling, community activities/opportunities, and ACTUAL police protection, so that some of those black folk who can, do move to give our children a better chance; some places that chance is costlier, in terms of exposure to degrading treatment, than others.

It really becomes an enormous dilemma in terms of what to do to: safeguard one's emotional well being by staying around people who know you and look like you vs live with harassment hoping eventually the neighbors and cops know you well enough not to run the other way/toward you when they see you coming. M




pantera -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 7:23:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

i have a black girlfriend -- a law school professor who is the brightest person i know -- and i once asked her "what matters more to people? That you are a woman, or that you are black?"

Her answer is "That i am black."

pinkpleasures



Sad! The answer should have been: "that I am Mary, Susan..." whatever her name is-

We should be proud of who we are as an individual, and that's the way we should look at people- for what they are as a person....




mnottertail -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 1:38:40 PM)

You know, we got to live in the now, the reality......life ain't gonna get better if we dream about it, nor are you alone gonna change the world.

Now, the emancipation proclamation didn't do a goddamn thing for nobody.

I have let alot of feeling pass on this thread, alot of misconceptions.

The truth is, they are black and we are white.........that distinction will be with us our lifetime (everyone who reads this and I know that there are kids in their early twenties who might land here by mistake)..so don't be color blind............

I guess M (BlkTallFullFig) is gonna not like some of this but I hope our freindship survives it.

See alot of profiles on here BLK/WHT and so on. What we can all hope for someday is that means the same as SAE/METRIC, different but the same.

But I like looking at that Cocoa brown skin against my super-white (left-handed blue eyed norwegan bald headed skin) so it is kinky.

People are people wherever you go. While I am not gonna recommend reading Fredrick Douglass in this day and age, unless you really like books........I would say that Before The Mayflower is a decent history of Black Folk in america.............

There may be more, I don't know.

But if we sit here on every post for every post and say the same goddamn thing over and over and over, COMMUNICATE.........

Talking is good, spend less time with the Dr. Phil shit and read and ruminate on those things that are in your everyday life........

Perhaps there is history that we ain't read and that's why we keep repeating these same mistakes.

I am not guilty of owning slaves in the last little imbriglio called the civil war, we were indentured servants them days, but as a norwegian we traded slaves, black white red yellow brown.....no matter, and I don't think that slavery was a big deal until we as americans went at it in the 1750s to 1860s. Black people owned slaves, no big deal.

Kinda like happens here.....

I am a slave, not a doormat.........
I am black, not worthless........
I am a human, not an animal.....(except in special and kinky situations)
I have known many people of color over my lifetime..........


Now, I gotta say, if you had to wake up everyday a nigger, and you got some money together.........
Wouldn't you try for an easier life?
Don't they want cabins in the woods like we do?
Don't they want children to have better lives than we?

At least we got guys now crackin on us back and forth like Bernie Mac (I love that fuckin' guy) and Dave Chappelle and so we are more comfortable now in our skin.

The government who is the people...........

Now that's where this rant started.....

The checkbook has the effect of law.
Government policy has the effect of racism.





BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 2:19:54 PM)

quote:

You know, we got to live in the now, the reality......life ain't gonna get better if we dream about it, nor are you alone gonna change the world.
I agree. My present is not bad at all in that I have those things I need, a lot of what I want, and those days that the world being phucked up gets under my skin, I sit with my family, we talk, drink, dance, and believe there is a higher power we have a higher purpose for being in the world.
We even acknowledge that all things considered, we'd rather live here than in other countries with a different set of problems, because the devil you know....

quote:

The truth is, they are black and we are white.........that distinction will be with us our lifetime (everyone who reads this and I know that there are kids in their early twenties who might land here by mistake)..so don't be color blind.
There isn't a single problem as far as I am concerned in someone saying I am different, as long as in being different you're not insinuating I am superior, especially if your complex is derrived from lacking melanin.
I haven't ever suggested anyone be colorblind since that is BS, doesn't work. What I have suggested is treat others as you would have them treat you (or your children), and go from there based on what you learn thereafter about each.

quote:

See alot of profiles on here BLK/WHT and so on. What we can all hope for someday is that means the same as SAE/METRIC, different but the same.
I love your standing and saying I think this way; I've always respected difference of opinion, especially if it is informed, and respectful to me and mine. I'm always open to learning your position whether we agree or not... I can't say I understand your position though with this rant to be honest...

I don't mind disctintive traits placed in profile, because they give me a hint into someone's appearance and their perception sometimes of their appearance. Mine is BlkTall, because I am a brown skinned bodacious babe, and I know men are visual, so that if the visual gives them a rise, they can write and tell me about what they find intriguing/interesting. I will always have a respectful reply to someone who says I don't know you, but I like what I see, and would like to learn what it feels to be with someone like you. I will also always tell those people that approach me with "I want you because I hear black women are *insert whatever stereotype you want* gets told exactly where to shove those ideas, to prevent them from seeing the sun again.
It's not at all about being the same, it's about being equal.

quote:

People are people wherever you go. While I am not gonna recommend reading Fredrick Douglass in this day and age, unless you really like books........I would say that Before The Mayflower is a decent history of Black Folk in america.............

But if we sit here on every post for every post and say the same goddamn thing over and over and over, COMMUNICATE.......

This is not about history lessons, it's more about present day attrocities of the human spirit. We have to say it, because every day something phucked up happens in the world, and it's always because some asshole who is insecure/afraid for whatever reason is in a position to show "who's da man."
Frederick Douglass? Okay maybe not, but how about Henry Louis Gates, Cornel West, Michael Eric Dyson?

I really don't mind honest people with decent souls who lack knowledge about me or people who look like me; I'm thrilled to answer questions about curly hair... What absolutely drives me nearly insane is assumptions based on bad media/bad communication, lack of reading, lack of desire to learn, which suit your thinking/mentality/need to feel superior to another human being projected onto me.

quote:

Perhaps there is history that we ain't read and that's why we keep repeating these same mistakes.
It's partly that, and partly the fact that people suck, and a lot of folks don't mind what happens to their neighbors as long as it isn't leaving shit on their driveways.

quote:

Now, I gotta say, if you had to wake up everyday a nigger, and you got some money together.........
Wouldn't you try for an easier life?
Don't they want children to have better lives than we?
This is also the part about being unable to divorce race and class. I mean how many blacks do you know have Oprah and Powel's disposable income?
An easier life as not as simple to come by when there are institutions which prevent it, and some people see first, assume, than maybe at some point wake up to the facts (when that assumption is about children, they are sometimes killed before they grow); some people never do, and they don't feel they have to, I mean really who wants to question the fact that he may have an unreasonable advantage, and ought to be aware of it enough to try and change it for the greater good?

quote:

At least we got guys now crackin on us back and forth like Bernie Mac (I love that fuckin' guy) and Dave Chappelle and so we are more comfortable now in our skin.
The government who is the people........
Did you see Chris Rock's lates HBO stand up "Never Scared"? He says a black C student can't even get a manger's job at Burger King; a white C student is the president.
quote:

The checkbook has the effect of law.
Well Yes, but how often could you afford to go through the bureaucracy of proving someone did something wrong to you which didn't leave a visible scar? How often have you considered complaining about people in power than being afraid you won't have mortgage money next month..... Lots of things to ponder, and the reason one weighs the good with the bad.
After all, how diginified are you going to feel if you're homeless and jobless?
quote:

Government policy has the effect of racism.
Yup, I said that too. M

Editted once again for one or 2 inappropriate comments.[8D]




pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 2:55:59 PM)

quote:

Side note: I was talking to the sociologist Michele Buchanan a while back and she made an interesting observation on the effect of housing desegregation in the north. When she was a child the "black areas" had thriving social and cultural opportunities. African Americans were forced to live their regardless of their education or employment. When desegregation arrived, many of the "upper class" blacks (the lawyers, professors, doctors and such) left. In her view this explains much of the problems that exist in those areas now.

JohnWarren


i hope You know i respect You and miss, but this is like blaming the orange for being more desirable to eat when sectioned. People of ANY color act in their own self-interest, and of course middle class people -- of any color -- try to live in middle class neighborhoods and send their kids to safe schools, etc. Such people of color are NOT a casual factor for the collapse of the infrastruture of northern cities -- that was accomplished by the busing decisions. White flight was also seen as repugnant but really, who wants their kid in these schools with guns and mob fights?

And BTW; being black and in an expensive car coming up I-95 in Florida gets you pulled over for Driving While Black, which will be followed by several indignities, possibly to include civil forfeiture of your car. White parents never have to worry about this; and so while we can achieve mutual respect and even fight the good fight, we can never KNOW the experience of being a person of color in the US.

pinkpleasures




mnottertail -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 3:18:41 PM)

And thats why I will never be on a jury, pink.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 5:00:49 PM)

quote:

But if we sit here on every post for every post and say the same goddamn thing over and over and over, COMMUNICATE.........

Talking is good, spend less time with the Dr. Phil shit and read and ruminate on those things that are in your everyday life........
Was I communicating or shouting? I feel like doing both.

I like Dr Phil, because a lot of times people just need to hear "cut through the crap, let go of the past, and live with what is here and now." When the day comes that people don't get special dehumanizing treatment because of skin pigment, I'll drop this shit once and for all. *Not holding breath waiting on that Nirvana though*, I carry on, am happy most days, love and am loved by a lot of people, work, shop, play, etc.
I do have the need to have made some difference that I lived at all because I cared and therefore I mattered.
quote:

life ain't gonna get better if we dream about it, nor are you alone gonna change the world.
So, who' you telling not to dream, when dreaming is much better than reality most days, and who' you telling can't change the world alone. I can't take polls, but I know more than one or 2 people have changed as a result of being exposed to moi (for the better I hope, though once in a while I do piss people off, but a girl's gotta have fun). [8|] M




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 6:17:52 PM)

quote:

this is like blaming the orange for being more desirable to eat when sectioned. People of ANY color act in their own self-interest, and of course middle class people -- of any color -- try to live in middle class neighborhoods and send their kids to safe schools, etc. Such people of color are NOT a casual factor for the collapse of the infrastruture of northern cities -- that was accomplished by the busing decisions. Whitr flight was also seen as repugnant but really, who wants their kid in these schools with guns and mob fights?

And BTW; being black and in an expensive car coming up I-95 in Florida gets you pulled over for Driving While Black, which will be followed by several indignities, possibly to include civil forfeiture of your car. White parents never have to worry about this; and so while we can achieve mutual respect and even fight the good fight, we can never KNOW the experience of being a person of color in the US.

pinkpleasures
Pink I know what you are saying, and you're right, but I don't think John Warren was suggesting nigras should have stayed in their place, and that way we wouldn't be seeing the problem of being discriminated because we're no longer where we're supposed to be.
I think he was just pointing out one factor which brought the problem more into light... I could be wrong, am sure he'll clarify. [&o]M




JohnWarren -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/25/2005 7:15:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

this is like blaming the orange for being more desirable to eat when sectioned. People of ANY color act in their own self-interest, and of course middle class people -- of any color -- try to live in middle class neighborhoods and send their kids to safe schools, etc. Such people of color are NOT a casual factor for the collapse of the infrastruture of northern cities -- that was accomplished by the busing decisions. Whitr flight was also seen as repugnant but really, who wants their kid in these schools with guns and mob fights?

And BTW; being black and in an expensive car coming up I-95 in Florida gets you pulled over for Driving While Black, which will be followed by several indignities, possibly to include civil forfeiture of your car. White parents never have to worry about this; and so while we can achieve mutual respect and even fight the good fight, we can never KNOW the experience of being a person of color in the US.

pinkpleasures
Pink I know what you are saying, and you're right, but I don't think John Warren was suggesting nigras should have stayed in their place, and that way we wouldn't be seeing the problem of being discriminated because we're no longer where we're supposed to be.
I think he was just pointing out one factor which brought the problem more into light... I could be wrong, am sure he'll clarify. [&o]M


Pink is a lawyer and so conditioned to think in terms of blame. What Michele was pointing out was simply something that happened.

Not everything deserves a lawsuit




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 6:20:51 AM)

quote:

i have a black girlfriend -- a law school professor who is the brightest person i know -- and i once asked her "what matters more to people? That you are a woman, or that you are black?"

Her answer is "That i am black."
Thanks Pink for sharing your insight. M




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625