RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans

RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (Full Version)

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sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 3:19:23 PM)
quote: Congratulations. That means they liked you...or at least didn't consider you threatening. Folks don't usually admit racial bias unless they feel comfortable in doing so. I'll definately have to change that about them. When we move there...I'll make sure I make lots of different colored friends when family is coming over. Of course I'm not like the norm, I don't want everyone liking me...its much better to have some dislike you.

fastlane -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 3:26:22 PM)
I dislike you sub4hire...one minute...and then like you the next....guess it all depends on if we are in agreement or not? I'm black too, atleast from the waist down![:)]

sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 3:36:46 PM)
quote: I dislike you sub4hire...one minute...and then like you the next....guess it all depends on if we are in agreement or not? Well, I like you much more since you put some clothes on.

Lordandmaster -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 5:45:58 PM)
You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days, because it has bothered me, and I wasn't sure at first why. But now I think I know why. It's a little bit like blaming advances in medicine for the fact that cancer is a much greater killer now than ever before. Black lawyers, professors, and doctors should have the same freedom to live wherever they want as anyone else. Some people are nostalgic for the Good Old Days, when everyone lived where they were supposed to, and people made a local culture out of their community because they had no alternative. Yes, the increased freedoms have caused some social dislocation, but the old communities were maintained in the past only at the price of injustice. The challenge today is to figure out how to create a thriving new culture out of the new society, rather than to reminisce about the bygone cultures of an antiquated one. quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren Side note: I was talking to the sociologist Michele Buchanan a while back and she made an interesting observation on the effect of housing desegregation in the north. When she was a child the "black areas" had thriving social and cultural opportunities. African Americans were forced to live their regardless of their education or employment. When desegregation arrived, many of the "upper class" blacks (the lawyers, professors, doctors and such) left. In her view this explains much of the problems that exist in those areas now.

pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 6:56:00 PM)
quote: Pink is a lawyer and so conditioned to think in terms of blame. What Michele was pointing out was simply something that happened. Not everything deserves a lawsuit JohnWarren First of all, everything IS a lawsuit; LOLOLOL. Seriously, the rise of the black middle class and their flight from collapased inner cities is not what i would call "causation" but simply a correlary. Even today, i cannot decide on whether the busing decisions were proper; after all that's happened, de facto desegregation just took up city limits and zoning requirements...so it seems to me they were well-intended but short-sighted. Yet to allow segregation to go unaddressed also seems repugnant. i do not have the answers; i think we all struggle to improve the sphere of influence around us if we are decently housed, well-nourished and safe. At 16 it was so clear; now at 52 it's so confusing. But i'd still like to belt a bigot in the mouth once more before i go. pinkpleasures

pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 7:04:33 PM)
quote: I agree with you... I know several people who say "I will not leave the Hood to prove I'm real, and I support my brothers in the struggle", but the hood is not as well protected as wealthy neighborhoods in terms of schooling, community activities/opportunities, and ACTUAL police protection, so that some of those black folk who can, do move to give our children a better chance; some places that chance is costlier, in terms of exposure to degrading treatment, than others. It really becomes an enormous dilemma in terms of what to do to: safeguard one's emotional well being by staying around people who know you and look like you vs live with harassment hoping eventually the neighbors and cops know you well enough not to run the other way/toward you when they see you coming. M BlkTallFullfig It is a dilemma whites can never know; though they may suffer the indecencies of poverty; at any time they could be cleaned up and dropped off in a white neighborhood without anyone taking notice. Meantime, some of my black friends cannot take up jogging because a black man in a white neighborhood, running, draws police. pinkpleasures

pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 7:12:47 PM)
quote: You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days, because it has bothered me, and I wasn't sure at first why. But now I think I know why. It's a little bit like blaming advances in medicine for the fact that cancer is a much greater killer now than ever before. Black lawyers, professors, and doctors should have the same freedom to live wherever they want as anyone else. Some people are nostalgic for the Good Old Days, when everyone lived where they were supposed to, and people made a local culture out of their community because they had no alternative. Yes, the increased freedoms have caused some social dislocation, but the old communities were maintained in the past only at the price of injustice. The challenge today is to figure out how to create a thriving new culture out of the new society, rather than to reminisce about the bygone cultures of an antiquated one. Lordandmaster i had an "interesting" childhood and spent days on the streets; and lived in a black neighborhood and went to a black high school, all during the busing riots. What i know is that people make choices; and it defines who they are. Poor people face many more moral dilemmas because another place at the table may really mean everyone goes hungry to some degree....so their charity snd kindness is not an stuffed envelope but standing with you when you're in danger, etc. i have such good memories of such good people (of all races) from that time in my life, as well as bad ones, and hope to Gawd i passed on my attitudes to my kid. pinkpleasures

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 8:53:56 PM)
Wondering if you ever read "The Rage of a priviledged class" LaM, because this is what it deals with mostly. quote: It's a little bit like blaming advances in medicine for the fact that cancer is a much greater killer now than ever before. Black lawyers, professors, and doctors should have the same freedom to live wherever they want as anyone else. Some people are nostalgic for the Good Old Days, when everyone lived where they were supposed to, and people made a local culture out of their community because they had no alternative. Yes, the increased freedoms have caused some social dislocation, but the old communities were maintained in the past only at the price of injustice. Sending hugs and kisses to LaM for saying it better than I. Still, I think it's mentioned as one of the reasons racism is currently being discussed front and center. Most poor blacks don't have decent homes, and computers to be here participating here. Lots of people would say to black middle/upper class "stop whining, haven't you achieved the dream/ability to buy the house with white picket fence, shut up already about oppression," because the ability to buy what one wants/needs should be satisfactory to the simple folk with only basic survival needs... Some posters here have even indicated that sentiment. M

girl4you2 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/26/2005 10:37:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig Lots of people would say to black middle/upper class "stop whining, haven't you achieved the dream/ability to buy the house with white picket fence, shut up already about oppression," because the ability to buy what one wants/needs should be satisfactory to the simple folk with only basic survival needs... M that this is not only tolerated but perpetuated is abhorrent. to change involves individuals as well as societies. change does not come easily, but changes have been neglected for too long. i wonder also how many people realize what sacrificies were made for middle and or upper class blacks to get to where they have gotten, regardless of where they live. by the way, living conditions in the south aren't filled with shacks anymore than the projects in the north are filled with luxuries. societal isolation is everywhere. we live in a small world and the longer we isolate without dealing with very complex issues, the larger they become. but rather than dismiss them as overly burdensome to see, it's time to start working on change from all directions.

pinkpleasures -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/27/2005 11:37:05 AM)
quote: Still, I think it's mentioned as one of the reasons racism is currently being discussed front and center. Most poor blacks don't have decent homes, and computers to be here participating here. Lots of people would say to black middle/upper class "stop whining, haven't you achieved the dream/ability to buy the house with white picket fence, shut up already about oppression," because the ability to buy what one wants/needs should be satisfactory to the simple folk with only basic survival needs... Some posters here have even indicated that sentiment. M BlkTallFullfig White parents do not fret when their kids take their expensive cars and drive them while dressed in rags...they do not worry their kids will be exposed to racism in the schools; they do not fret about them not entering collage for the life it would doom them to...it is never the same...pinkpleasures

Faramir -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/27/2005 11:39:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren quote: ORIGINAL: frenchpet As it's often the case with fear / hatred feelings. I was completely homophobic when I was a teenager (I was just following others' ideas), until I realized one of my friends was homosexual. This is why I urge people in the scene to be as out as possible about their interests. What people fear is the unknown, the different. The Right Wing preachers can get them all worked up about the "terrible perverts" but when they know one of those "terrible perverts" is Jay "The guy who loaned me his lawnmower" the lable loses a lot of its effect. It's easy to invest the unknown with a terrible face. Remember the ancient maps with "here be monsters" on them? Oh how I love dramatic irony.

Lordandmaster -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/27/2005 1:59:07 PM)
How was that ironic?

target -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 5:08:43 AM)
Yes racism is alive and well and we should fight the fight but... Little towns full of white people had the same complaints. Where is FEMA? They just weren't as massed together to make compelling TV. I think the mess was a case of pure incompetence. Still is. Ignoring the hundreds of thousands of non black folk stuck in the same morass so you can make a false point is just another case of racism.

girl4you2 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 9:58:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures White parents do not fret when their kids take their expensive cars and drive them while dressed in rags...they do not worry their kids will be exposed to racsim in the schools; they do not fret about them not entering collage for the life it would doom them to...it is never the same...pinkpleasures while it's not the same, not all white parents send their kids off with any car at all, much less an expensive one. some of us actually teach tolerance such that they don't learn about racism (they see everyone equally) until older, and once they do see it, they fight against it. not all can afford to pay for college either. it's not the same being black or white, but being poor can be very similar, and people can be taught tolerance, reasoning, and to work for equality. "just say no" might be changed to "just say no to accepting ignorance and intolerance."

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 1:59:59 PM)
quote: Yes racism is alive and well and we should fight the fight but... Little towns full of white people had the same complaints. Where is FEMA? They just weren't as massed together to make compelling TV. I think the mess was a case of pure incompetence. Still is. Ignoring the hundreds of thousands of non black folk stuck in the same morass so you can make a false point is just another case of racism. Is this the part where talking out both sides of your mouth gets to make sense and sound more informed, less false, and more radical? Even the president who never accepts fault, accepted racial inequity in his speech (because there was no way to escape it), so I don't know where you are getting your info, and why yours is more accurate than LaM's assessment of the situation. quote: He said those hit hardest by the hurricane were already impoverished because of years of discrimination. "As we clear away the debris of a hurricane, let us also clear away the legacy of inequality," Mr Bush said at a memorial service in Washington. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4253040.stm

Lordandmaster -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 4:25:50 PM)
Well, both can be true. In fact, I'm sure both are true. There was plenty of incompetence to go around. But I've been talking about more than just the way the Katrina aftermath was handled in New Orleans. I've been talking about some of the public statements that officials have made about the victims in New Orleans, and those were just dripping with racism. quote: ORIGINAL: target Yes racism is alive and well and we should fight the fight but... Little towns full of white people had the same complaints. Where is FEMA? They just weren't as massed together to make compelling TV. I think the mess was a case of pure incompetence. Still is. Ignoring the hundreds of thousands of non black folk stuck in the same morass so you can make a false point is just another case of racism.

vic9594 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 4:47:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 quote: ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures White parents do not fret when their kids take their expensive cars and drive them while dressed in rags...they do not worry their kids will be exposed to racsim in the schools; they do not fret about them not entering collage for the life it would doom them to...it is never the same...pinkpleasures while it's not the same, not all white parents send their kids off with any car at all, much less an expensive one. some of us actually teach tolerance such that they don't learn about racism (they see everyone equally) until older, and once they do see it, they fight against it. not all can afford to pay for college either. it's not the same being black or white, but being poor can be very similar, and people can be taught tolerance, reasoning, and to work for equality. "just say no" might be changed to "just say no to accepting ignorance and intolerance." Yes…Bravo!!!![/

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 5:40:13 PM)
quote: it's not the same being black or white, but being poor can be very similar, and people can be taught tolerance, reasoning, and to work for equality. "just say no" might be changed to "just say no to accepting ignorance and intolerance." I agree that many problems can be traced to social status, but that is why we should avoid disproportionate comparisons. Ridding ourselves/society of ignorance and intolerance over differences, especially as it relates to presence/quantity of melanin, will go a long way in improving the social lot of a lot of people in my opinion. I'm in no way suggesting this is something you need Girl4you2, as I've read and learned from your very informative posts. Welcome to the boards. M

girl4you2 -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/28/2005 8:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: it's not the same being black or white, but being poor can be very similar, and people can be taught tolerance, reasoning, and to work for equality. "just say no" might be changed to "just say no to accepting ignorance and intolerance." I agree that many problems can be traced to social status, but that is why we should avoid disproportionate comparisons. Ridding ourselves/society of ignorance and intolerance over differences, especially as it relates to presence/quantity of melanin, will go a long way in improving the social lot of a lot of people in my opinion. I'm in no way suggesting this is something you need Girl4you2, as I've read and learned from your very informative posts. Welcome to the boards. M thank you; i do try to not let my passions overtake me too much, but i wish to help inform and provide a view. thank you for your welcome and nice comments.

target -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/29/2005 5:00:49 AM)
quote: I agree that many problems can be traced to social status, but that is why we should avoid disproportionate comparisons. Ridding ourselves/society of ignorance and intolerance over differences, especially as it relates to presence/quantity of melanin, will go a long way in improving the social lot of a lot of people in my opinion. Tolerance of differences? Talking out of both sides of my mouth? Racism indeed reared its ugly head in the wake of Katrina. As did greed, criminal intent and a host of other ills. My point was simply that they are not the driving force behind the pathetic response of our government. To say it is is like attacking cancer...with the cure for AIDS. I've marched, talked, voted and fought for civil rights all my life. I always will. But I'm sick and tired of every problem being painted over as racism when it simply isn't the case. And in this case I'm pretty sure that many many people in the gulf who are STILL waiting for help would agree.

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