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Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 5:36:34 AM   
squeak


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline 		Good morning :)

My pet and I over the year we've been together (and oh, what a blissful year indeed) have started going to more munches, conventions, play parties, fetish nights in different communities around Florida and have loved every minute of it.

Yet, for as long as we've been going, I've still yet learn how to gracefully say "No thank you".

For instance, at a past local SILK event (rope stuff, forget what it stands for :P ) there was a play party after. I got approached by 2 different people. Person number 1 was older, perhaps mid 50's, and had very much a "creepy, trolling vibe" (which my pet picked up on as well, so it wasn't my being paranoid) and he said he would be honored to play with me. I had said at the time we were just there to watch, meet people, and generally hang out.

Person number 2 came up to me, and started striking up a conversation with me *and* my pet (something that's important to me) and we talked to him for a good hour. He was dropping hints at playing, and my interest was definitely piqued. However, I declined partly for the fact that Person number 1 was still mulling about, and I would feel like an ass playing with person number 2, while having rejected person number 1.

I guess my question to the general community would be how to poilitely thwart unwarranted advances, and how to address if someone says "Hey, why'd you play with them and not me?"

Also, another question, we were at a fetish event this past saturday (The Tampa Chambers Fetish Circuit party, highly recommended I might add) and I was sitting and watching a rope suspension scene and a guy that had to have been at least 60 (age isn't really the issue on this, it's more of what happened), circling around the club and he walks by me and brushes his hand on my shoulder. Now, I should probaby add, when I'm in generally unfamiliar territory, I have a "bubble" around myself. I don't let people encroach on my "bubble" unless I want them to. So, when this guy walked by and touched me, it made me very uncomfortable. I gave him a weird look and kind of shrugged it off.

Should I have spoken up? Done what I did? I detest confrontation, so I guess that's why I don't like speaking up when I probably should. Not to mention, my pet would've snapped him in half if he saw what happened (cause he knows me and my level of comfort in certain situations).

Any advice? :)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 5:44:50 AM   
Chaze


Posts: 26
Joined: 1/31/2008
Status: offline 		If you put your wears out there expect someone to inspect them, being a uppity broad will only challenge your pet and I suspect send him to the morgue or emergency room.

(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 5:45:52 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		As for the 'no thanks' I'd say just that. Smile, make it softer if you need to, but "No thanks" in my books is an acceptable response to any offer. If they ever ask why you refused, or why you played with someone else instead of them (Which seems childish to me) just brush it off with a shrug or if you can think of a witty way to humor it off that too. I really don't think you owe anyone an explination of why you don't want to play with them, it's your choice and preference.

As for the invasion of personal space, I allow one mistake from anyone. If it's just a casual touch and gone again, fine, I give it a glare and leave it alone. Second offence, I say something privately to them and request they don't invade my personal space in that fashion. Some people just think being 'physically friendly' is acceptable, I inform them it's not comfortable at all for me. Third strike, I make a complaint to the Host or Hostess about the persons inappropriate behavior. Usually a quick private word witht he person is enough to stop it, though sometimes gentle words are not enough and a bit of dressing down usually shuffles them off in a sullen snit.

Playpen or public, people should be extending you courtesy.

(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 5:46:13 AM   
Faeorie


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: squeak

I guess my question to the general community would be how to poilitely thwart unwarranted advances, and how to address if someone says "Hey, why'd you play with them and not me?"


"... circling around the club and he walks by me and brushes his hand on my shoulder. Now, I should probaby add, when I'm in generally unfamiliar territory, I have a "bubble" around myself. I don't let people encroach on my "bubble" unless I want them to. So, when this guy walked by and touched me, it made me very uncomfortable. I gave him a weird look and kind of shrugged it off."



I'd just play with the 2nd guy that you both were into and ignore the 1st one. If the first one came up to make a scene about it, you could either lie and say person #2 was a friend of yours, or tell the truth simply saying, you weren't what we were looking for or along those lines.

and for the second one: Did you know it was deliberate? I know clubs and bars and just any place that people gather can get crowded. Perhaps this man did not mean to? And if it were obvious it was intentional, just look and say "could you not do that please." That will usually shake some off.

For the future, since you have a personal "bubble" space in public settings perhaps you and your pet should look for a place to sit thats far off in the back or corner, if its possible.

(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 5:58:54 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		"Back off, jackoff."

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(in reply to Faeorie)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 6:12:46 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		You have the right to pick and choose with no explanation to anyone---being in that setting does not mean you have to be at the mercy of every idiot---a firm No thank you is all that is needed, and move on, if someone can't accept that---they need a reality check.

_____________________________

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(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 6:21:40 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		People can look with their eyes without using their hands. I know if someone touched me they would sure hear about it and I don't consider that "uppity" I consider it informing them of the consquences before they get hurt.

To the OP be polite the first time  if they do it again let them know without a shadow of a doubt that you are not the nights entertainment (Unless you want to be of course). If they don't grasp the concept then track down the host or DM and have them explain it in a way they will understand.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to Chaze)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 6:29:28 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		For the first part of the OP, I tend to think "no thank you" works wonders.  Just because you are in a play atmosphere, doesn't mean you are obligated to play with anyone who offers or asks.  Had it been Me, I would have gone on to play with the second person that came along, and wouldn't have given much thought to the first person.  I tend to use a very generic answer if I'm ever asked why I'm not interested in playing with anyone.  I simply tell them the energy isn't right.  I've never been questioned beyond that.

As for the being touched part, the glare was probably sufficient.  Most people know at events that you shouldn't touch anything that doesn't belong to you, including people.  That little phrase usually works well, if you need to use it.


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(in reply to LadyHathor)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 7:01:58 AM   
darknemus


Posts: 3
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		Hello :)  I'm the 'pet' in question, btw.. so I thought I'd give my perspective here. Specifically on 'creepy guy' as I watched him / observed him for a couple of hours that night on / off.

Here's the thing.  The guy was lurking / leering.  He never ONCE made an effort to say hello or engage in any form of conversation.  (Anyone that knows Squeak and i know we're both totally approachable and pretty low key people.  We love to talk and have conversations and whatever else.. your kinks / sexuality / whatever are not an issue there - just your ability to hold a conversation)

At the time that the 'touch' happened, I had wandered off to get Squeak a drink.  Where she was located there was a good 3 - 4 foot radius around her which would make anyone able to EASILY avoid touching her.  When I came back and she mentioned to me what happened.  I stood up (I tend to look a bit more intimidating when I'm not on one bended knee)  and basically 'locked eyes' with the guy in question.  He looks at me and offers a little smug 'shrug' - basically acknowledging what he did and saying "oh well, what can ya do?".  At that point I basically dropped back down to Squeak's side and said "If it happens again, his evening will not end well" and left it at that.  That's not me being macho - that's me being protective. - I'd do the same for anyone that I consider a friend.  I'm the most mellow guy in the world unless someone irks me.  Fortunately, it takes a lot to irk me :)

As far as her 'wares' being 'inspected' - that's fine.  NUMEROUS people come up, talk, interact - if the situation warrants, touching, kissing, poking, and everything else goes on, too.  However, if your intention is to interact at 'that level' with EITHER of us - express it with a bit less 'icchy' than a soft touch on the shoulder as you walk by - if you knew her, that's different.  If you've been lurking around us and 'watching' us for two+ hours.. then no, not acceptable.

Oh, and the morgue / hospital bed thing?  Naah, I'd just ask him how it feels to be 'touched without permission' ;)



< Message edited by darknemus -- 2/11/2008 7:28:57 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 7:09:13 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I just tell them that I never play with someone I have just met.

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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 7:29:20 AM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		"No thank you"  should do it nicely.

(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 7:54:39 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I just tell them that I never play with someone I have just met.


Not a good answer.  Then they proceed to get into the category of someone you "know" by following you around and trying to strike up conversation every five minutes and doing that every time they see you and reminding you of how long they have "known" you.
This thread is a nice reminder of why I stopped going to fetish events.  They were often fun, but the creepy moments made it not worth it. Especially the leering/staring and inappropriate come ons.

Akasha


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(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 8:20:59 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I don't like confrontation either, but sometimes people don't get it.

I also think sometmes the facility manager, dungeon space owner, event runner or DM is the place to take a problem like that.  You never know if someone else has had the experience, mentioned it and there might be a three strikes or similar rule.

Let me say this, most commercial spaces DO NOT want to discourage women from attending.  The scenarios you describe, except #2, put me off from public mixed gender space.

For me, I try so hard to maintain an imperious, regal and haughty demeanor (which is actually all an act and very NOT me) in order to discourage the blind rush approach to me.

To your pet, it seems you get this, but my boi and I joke a lot.. she'll say to me.. "can't leave you alone, I can feel it" .. if we're in mixed space and she goes to get me a drink or some such -- inevitably, someone decides its their opening to rudely, or hopefully occasionally, respectfully approach me.  Its very common.

Unfortunately, its all part of open and public events.

I do not play with people I have just met -- and I am quick to mention it and I don't allow people to follow me around.  I'm amazed that people believe that showing up to the same place at the same time is enough of a connection to play.  I wouldn't play with someone I just met anymore than I would sleep with someone I just met.  Works for some, not for me.  I applaud people who are able to do that successfully.

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 2/11/2008 8:26:39 AM >

(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 8:46:41 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Squeak, unfortunately, there are a lot of people that won't respect others and will behave in a less than tasteful way. You need to learn how to assert yourself without being aggressive. A good way is to practice role-play scenarios - your pet can help you with this. The more you practice, the more comfortable you'll become in asserting yourself with people that aren't personally known to you - and I would say this regardless of situation. This would be handy for you in all walks of life. If you weren't at a club and a strange man walked up to you and touched you intimately, how would you react, give him a weird look and shrug it off? I really don't think so, and I don't see how such behaviour in a club is any more acceptible. Assertion!

(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 9:18:33 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am on the side of the not touching. I also know that some people are natural touchers. It comes automatic to them. If they touch you then ask them what they want. No need to get in a snit about it the first time. As far as the stareing goes. Guilty. I look at everybody. If you have a problem with that then do'nt get in front of my eyes. I stare with a smile not a leer.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 9:54:29 AM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I must be lucky.  As I actually like leering stares and inappropriate come ons this is never a problem for me.  I love being told I'm gorgeous, being stared at, being hit on, etc etc. 

However, my wet dream is my Dominant's nightmare.  If someone touches me without permission, he asks them not to do it again.  Even when people ask permission, he doesn't hesitate to say no if he doesn't like the vibe they're giving off.  If someone acts inappropriately towards me, he deals with it by telling them to back off.

In your situation, I would have turned around and said, 'Please don't touch me.  Thanks.'  smiled and turned my attention back to whatever was at hand.  Whoever touched you knows that it was noticed and it was not appreciated.  If he touched again, I would notify whoever is responsible for the group.  Most groups have some sort of 'No douchebag.' policy, so he'd be kicked out. ;)



_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
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(in reply to squeak)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 11:49:07 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

For instance, at a past local SILK event (rope stuff, forget what it stands for :P ) there was a play party after. I got approached by 2 different people. Person number 1 was older, perhaps mid 50's, and had very much a "creepy, trolling vibe" (which my pet picked up on as well, so it wasn't my being paranoid) and he said he would be honored to play with me. I had said at the time we were just there to watch, meet people, and generally hang out.

Person number 2 came up to me, and started striking up a conversation with me *and* my pet (something that's important to me) and we talked to him for a good hour. He was dropping hints at playing, and my interest was definitely piqued. However, I declined partly for the fact that Person number 1 was still mulling about, and I would feel like an ass playing with person number 2, while having rejected person number 1.

I guess my question to the general community would be how to poilitely thwart unwarranted advances, and how to address if someone says "Hey, why'd you play with them and not me?"


Perhaps if you had just said "No thank you" in the first place, it wouldn't have mattered whom you decided to play with next...playing at a play party isn't a lifelong commitement to an exclusive relationship.

The OP makes it sound like you engineereed a lot of drama over people trying to be sociable.

(in reply to junecleaver)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 1:55:50 PM   
Gleegal67


Posts: 218
Joined: 6/18/2007
From: Phoenix
Status: offline 		The training has been long and hard...but I believe I have excelled in the Mom "Death To You" Look.  Also, my Matrix-like skills of avoiding unwanted touches has gotten me out of some dicey situations!


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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 2:07:50 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gleegal67

The training has been long and hard...but I believe I have excelled in the Mom "Death To You" Look.  Also, my Matrix-like skills of avoiding unwanted touches has gotten me out of some dicey situations!


Amen! I have no kids of my own but I've done enough child care for others I have the "Don't even think it" look down. I use to cow my 6'4" boss who was pretty pushy with that pointed look over the top of my glasses.

(in reply to Gleegal67)
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RE: Thwarting unwarranted advances... - 2/11/2008 2:33:18 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Saying "no thank you" works but sit is socially acceptable to say "not right now" and if someone came up and whined, then you KNOW you don't want to play with them!  If I was running a party and I found that someone was bitching about being blown off, I would take them aside and explain life to them.

As for the casual brush, first time there isn't much you can do BUT I would inform the host that "gee, he felt creepy and the contact seemed on purpose" because if they hear that from a couple of people, the guy is going to get a warning.

Your pet standing up and giving the guy a look was perfect.  Let the guy know you aren't going to take his crap. 


(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
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