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extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 3:42:22 PM   
lilabbotsfordgrl


Posts: 140
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Hi, thank you for reading. :)

I've had something on my mind for a while, and some profiles I've read recently sent me in the direction of making a thread to start a discussion on it.

Are some people who call themselves "submissives" possibly just kinky?

What I mean by that is might they simply be curious, or interested in "spicier" sexual/psychological relationships?  Are they the kind of people who don't end up following the lifestyle for life?

One example I read was something along the lines of "I've been a submissive for about a year now.  I'm very reluctant to submit to anyone because I'm very defiant.  I tend to be the aggressor in my relationships.  I'm not masochistic so don't even ask.  I'm a total bitch so if you cross me, you'll suffer.  I need someone who is VERY strong and demanding because I'll beat anyone else to a pulp.  Don't even contact me if you're older than 28, that's sick."

The girl was 21 and apparently listed as "submissive" but it got me thinking.  If you don't really like submission, if you're a bitch, if you're aggressive, and if you're more interested in your own needs than anyone else's, do you really have a submissive nature?  Maybe you're not really ready for BDSM at all, if you have to force yourself so hard into a role?

Sometimes I feel that some people are just here because it's a free "dating" site.  They're only vaguely interested in BDSM in the first place, or maybe they just like rough sex now and then.  To me, that'd explain why so many people here complain "there are far too many fakes on this site!"

Comments welcome.  I'm not trying to start an argument, just hear from people who have thoughts on the issue.  Thanks!
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 3:56:57 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I assume when I read profiles that people are taking their best guess at what they really want,  but their guess may not be accurate.  There are certainly plenty of men (and women) advertising on this site who had fantasies for years, and now they are 45 years old and divorced and figure they'll try to make something happen.  For someone at age 21 to be absolutely clear on what she wants in a long-term sexual relationship seems to be asking a lot.

Maybe it's more self-exploration than it is twue BDSM, but big whoop.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 3:58:34 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		I think the accusations of so many fakes comes from the fact that it is an online dating site.  There is a lot of posturing and what not and a lot of fantasy presented as fact.  I would assume that someone who claims to be a submissive is the best of judge that, whatever other characteristics he/she displays.

I also think there is an element of idealism, almost a religious fervor, present in a lot of people exploring BDSM.  I've wondered why and can't really explain it, except that I see it more in some populations than others - much more in submissive women than dominant women, for instance.

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 4:03:01 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline 		I think there are some who want to be broken down, and others who want to break down a Dom.   This is in addition to those who are confused about what they really want.

(in reply to TracyTaken)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 4:07:04 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		People's definitions of BDSM vary widely. What is one person's BDSM is another's "vanilla with kinky sex" and another's "next door to abuse." And someone who is new to the lifestyle doesn't know the "jargon" and so is dismissed out of hand by those who think they know what it's all about.

Each person on this site must discover for him/herself what their preference is, and what they want to get out of being here. What others say about them is irrelevant.


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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 4:09:00 PM   
FRSguy


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		I have run in to a large variety of that sort.  I have found woman with no experience at all that marked things like fisting, bondage and down a whole lists of things they have never done.  I have also found woman that got divorced and seem to try to run in the oposite extream that there life was before and also some that are just looking for a guy.... any guy.

(in reply to Nineveh)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 4:46:48 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		Maybe some of them, like me, picked 'submissive' because there is no category for Free Woman, Free Companion, bottom, masochist, or pain slut.  We are kinda limited as to what label we smack onto ourselves. 

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It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 4:51:05 PM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		and then you also have folks that are just tops and bottoms in play there is no D/s involved for them.  Which is fine, but there is no way to indicate that you are just a Top or Bottom in play on your profile which is where many of these people you are talking about could fall into.

Mike

(in reply to FRSguy)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 5:13:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		My Master was frustrated by such a person and, in venting about it, referred to her as a wannabe.  I said "Maybe she's just a can't-a-be."  He laughed and asked what the hell I was talking about.

I said some people really do desire to submit but are scared to death of it, and have too many walls constructed which prevents their inner core from developing what they want in their heart.  This doesn't mean they are not submissive.  It may very well mean they haven't come to terms with their submission, as was the case for me for a long time.  Without really knowing someone well, I can't possibly guess with any accuracy what's going on with them.  Some love the fantasy but the reality of it sucks.  Some want the reality but are afraid of it.  And some just haven't met the right person to submit to yet.

Everyone is where they are on their path in this life.  Someone once told me, "Wherever you are is exactly where you are meant to be right now."  So while I may have opinions on someone's intentions or motivations, it's not for me to say they should be presenting something else just yet.  They may not have discovered that part of themselves yet.

Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist, but I have some strong opinions about so called "fakes", "wannabes", etc....even when talking to Mr. Wonderful. :)

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 5:39:03 PM   
kittengirl8


Posts: 120
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline 		I think that, as long as the profile is filled and explains the person, they can label themselves as anything they want to. But, to answer your question, yes. Some submissives probably are just into kinky sex, but then, some vanilla's are into D/s and just don't know it .

Anyway, like I said. The profile should give you an insight. Whoever that profile/hypothetical profile was, is... Um... Yeah.

~kitten~

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 5:46:19 PM   
Honsoku


Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		My experiences are that "submissives" which present a really hard hostile exterior either are A: just jerking people around, or B: are extremely submissive and are trying to protect themselves after having been tromped on most of their lives. In other words; they roar really loudly, but have the heart of a kitten. So far, it has been B a lot more than A.

< Message edited by Honsoku -- 2/11/2008 5:47:22 PM >

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 7:26:54 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Why can't a submissive be strong or aggressive or interested in force play? She's clear about what does and doesn't work for her. She's submissive to one, not to all.

And if you think that's an unacceptable laundry list, you should have seen mine! I'm judgmental as all hell and proud of it, I won't compromise on what I need nor on what I cannot tolerate. I'm also not into pain.

I went looking for a man 5 years older than me (yes I am that picky), calm, patient, highly educated, with blue collar hands (I equate fixing the small stuff as being able to fix the big stuff and yes I know it doesn't always work that way), someone with a strong relationship with his ums as I detest men who don't pay support or stay in contact , someone with a strong work ethic, with physical traits I find attractive, and minor interest in pain play since I'm a bondage bottom playwise.

I found him. I found that having that long list made it a lot easier to tell immediately if we weren't compatible. And even after I found him I refused to meet him until we had talked every day for a month for hours, just to be sure. And since he knew why I was so anxious, he was calm and patient with me and slowly whittled my fears down until I felt safe to meet him. We're going on five years now so being this picky was worth it.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Honsoku)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 8:22:25 PM   
justdavid


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Saint Joseph, MO
Status: offline 		This is the classic case of some truth but to make a gross generalization or think you can figure which one is which can only make yourself a fool.

The fact is in reading profiles from female submissives many just do not do a very good job of describing what they are really about or after. They are filled with a lot of what they are not after which is fine as that gives information as well. Personally I think many are reluctant to share what they are looking for but I have no reason why and I do think this hurts their chances. But guess what read men's profiles and the same thing can be written.

The fact is if you do not know yourself and what you are truly looking for how can you expect another to discover it.

I pretty much despise any role and gender who calls out people by calling them fake, wannabees and other terms that pass judgment. It just takes two to make everything they write and want to be totally real. Most of the women that I find have the profiles the OP describe to me more often then not come off as more regular women desperate to find a outgoing leader type man and wander into this life hoping to find that with an open mind about top/bottom play. But I also think there are many men that wander in this life just looking for a woman who accepts traditional roles with maybe some kinky sex.

I can debate that there are people that I describe I would not guess which are which. Everyone has the right to pursue what they want and even the ones that I describe have every right to be here as anyone else and me. I just though wish more could look inward and communicate what they are truly seeking and not looking for another to figure it out for them.


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I am not a know it all. I just play one in cyber.

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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 8:33:14 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Personally I think many are reluctant to share what they are looking for but I have no reason why and I do think this hurts their chances.


Possibly because then replies will be catered to meet exactly what is listed in the profile, whether or not that's the truth.  Maybe it's a matter of not wanting to go first.

(in reply to justdavid)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 8:39:32 PM   
justdavid


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Saint Joseph, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

Personally I think many are reluctant to share what they are looking for but I have no reason why and I do think this hurts their chances.


Possibly because then replies will be catered to meet exactly what is listed in the profile, whether or not that's the truth.  Maybe it's a matter of not wanting to go first.



I am not arguing or picking a fight here but is this not a catch-22 situation in terms of how is a sincere male suppose to read a profile and respond with a sincere personal message if there is no sincere information. And is it not why most women, which I agree with, pretty much insist on only responding to men with complete filled out profiles and to message back and forth for a while to show they are not just getting words repeated back to them?


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I am not a know it all. I just play one in cyber.

(in reply to TracyTaken)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 9:24:11 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings all,

When I returned to the BDSM lifestyle after the end of my marriage, I had a list a mile long of "not no, but hell no!" things I absolutely would never do.  My ex and I had an M/s relationship for 3 years out of the 15 that we were together.  He was a sadist of epic proportions and I did not believe that I would ever want to experience anything akin to that again.

I have changed greatly in the last 15 months and my list has pretty much been erased.  Those subs may not be ready for certain things yet, but that doesn't mean they won't ever be open to them. 

well wishes ~ fairer than she


_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 9:45:55 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		It's because the "twue sub" has an insecure streak about a mile and a half wide. And spend most of thier time navel gazing, and self validate thier twueness about every fifteen seconds-just to be sure.

Having attained these lofty pedestals, they like to gaze down upon the paupers who have not thier wisdom and twueness-and toss down the occasional tidbit-becuase they care so deeply about the deluded masses who do not understand the right way to live.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 9:54:41 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Yes, I've always thought a "kinky" option should be included. I, and yes I speak only for myself, have found the vast majority of males who have labelled themselves sub or slave are, in actual fact, just looking for kinky sex, not domination. So much so that I have actually said in my profile that kinky sex does not equal submissive and is definitely not something I want.

I also find it funny that many people who label themselves submissive/slave also rant on for an hour about how they are not doormats, they will only submit to "the one", that they must be forced into submission. It all sounds like far too much hard work to me. I don't want to have to wrangle some unwilling person into submission. I think that's actually termed abuse. If they specify "forced this and that" well, if you ASK for it and WANT it, it's not really forced, is it?

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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 9:58:49 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It's because the "twue sub" has an insecure streak about a mile and a half wide. And spend most of thier time navel gazing, and self validate thier twueness about every fifteen seconds-just to be sure.

Having attained these lofty pedestals, they like to gaze down upon the paupers who have not thier wisdom and twueness-and toss down the occasional tidbit-becuase they care so deeply about the deluded masses who do not understand the right way to live.


Thank God somebody gets us!  Its so hard to preach the twueth with a bit in your teeth and a dildo up your ass, while on your knees peeling grapes with your excessively long eyelashes ....

winks ~ fairer




_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 10:00:33 PM   
Honsoku


Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

Personally I think many are reluctant to share what they are looking for but I have no reason why and I do think this hurts their chances.


Possibly because then replies will be catered to meet exactly what is listed in the profile, whether or not that's the truth. Maybe it's a matter of not wanting to go first.



*Gasp* But that would require that people actually read profiles! We all know no one does that!

quote:

ORIGINAL: justdavid
I am not arguing or picking a fight here but is this not a catch-22 situation in terms of how is a sincere male suppose to read a profile and respond with a sincere personal message if there is no sincere information.


Vent on:

This has been one of my biggest pet peeves. I fully understand not listing sexually oriented information, but to say nothing about yourself and expect to receive a personalized message? What in the nine hells are we supposed to base our conversation off of? Me dom, you sub, lets fuck? It doesn't help that submissives (especially young ones) tend to be very shy. Many want the other person to take the lead without opening themselves up at all. It's really a case of wanting your cake and eating it to. Let's make the dom do all the work and to hell with him if he isn't a mind reader! The perfect dom will know just what to say! That's if he bothers with your blank profile. Heaven help me if I see another profile that consists of an Anaïs Nin quote.

Vent off.

Though one thing I have noticed is that most (seems to me, anyway) submissives aren't very introspective. They tend to not understand what makes themselves tick except in a very general way, until they have considerable experience. For some it is laziness, others shyness, and yet more just plain don't understand who they are well enough (yes, there are other reasons).

< Message edited by Honsoku -- 2/11/2008 10:31:15 PM >

(in reply to TracyTaken)
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