quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How long till Bush is out then?

When he is out, he don't care, he will look after himself and I suppose knowing what is coming, he will be alright, him and his cared for ones.

Me, in my country, I am in the lower half of the economy, something which is not a definate, it can change anytime, but as I see it, stuff debts, food is more important, that and housing.

The debts are caused by food and housing, not any other. Not pay the debts, which I will say, is anethema to me, if I can I will make good , but not at the expense of food to live.

As I see it, the financial institutions caused this mess by making credit available to all regardless of their financial position, they are the ones to blame for their quest based on greed.

I may be totally wrong on this, but it is my understanding.

You Griswold as one of the top 5 %, I suggest you do what Mr Bush is doing, look to your own.

quote:

I cant understand, and have said so before, how an economy can survive on consumption alone. Sooner or later the shit must hit the fan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The point about these rebates, be they spent or saved, is that purchasing power is injected into the economy.
Money saved does not "stop" it is loaned "out" as soon as possible. In fact there is a multiplier at work in the loan. ie more is loaned then initially deposited.
I cant understand, and have said so before, how an economy can survive on consumption alone. Sooner or later the shit must hit the fan.
So like the Scouts Be Prepared. dib dib dob dob

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The point about these rebates, be they spent or saved, is that purchasing power is injected into the economy.
Money saved does not "stop" it is loaned "out" as soon as possible. In fact there is a multiplier at work in the loan. ie more is loaned then initially deposited.
I cant understand, and have said so before, how an economy can survive on consumption alone. Sooner or later the shit must hit the fan.
So like the Scouts Be Prepared. dib dib dob dob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I know what you're posting isn't what you think...so I'll make my comments within yours....(against "theirs").

I watched a programme recently about the US and the forthcoming problems, a BBC  production. It was where a few Brit BBC researchers were hitching a ride across America with the wagon drivers. Everywhere they stopped they interviewed normal people about what they think is coming.

One interviewee was spending on credit, food at Walmart, asked about debt, she said she was ok, then decided to remodel her house, so is now in debt. When asked if she could repay the debt, she shrugged and said "unlikely". The researcher asked if she was bothered about the debt, she said she was'nt, as she was to retire in a few months and would therefore be unable to pay the debt.

I agree with you, it is indeed the lies of those that seek credit, but it is also the fault of the credit agencies for not exploring the situation fully. The lady was aged, is it not plain that she might not be working much longer?
 
Of course...she can't...due to her age and therefore inability to pay an ever increasing share, be in a position to pay an "ever increasing share"....but, without knowing your age...I'll play this out as if you're 49...just like me.
 
Your Grandparents were born of the depression.  They knew what it took to survive.  And they lived through Hell.
 
Truly.
 
This is not a brag...I'm truly not trying to impress anyone (I'm confident others will readily dispute that).  It's part of the story....and required to make my point.
 
I made $375,000.00 last year...and paid taxes on every penny of it. 
 
That's not the important part of the story.
 
I spent less than $125.00 a month on food in all of 2007 and have a pantry that would be the envy of the known world (the bulk of which I used Sunday coupons to purchase).
 
(I gained 20 lbs {something I'm working on}...and ate very well the entire year).
 
As would be assumed by the above...I could afford any number of pleasures...and trust me...I enjoyed a few....but my cable bill was $12.00 a month...my internet cost me less than $30.00 a month.
 
My electricity bill...in a 3,500 SF home, amounted to $200.00 a month...all electric.  I've been to every local new construction site on weekends...gathering up every 6 inch piece of 2 x 4 for my cheesy wood stove fireplace...which heats about 20% of my place (and not very well at all....but it minimizes my electricity bill...it heats a section of my place...and I get up when it's freezing to fill it up), electricity being the most expensive available heat in my geographic area.
 
I have plastic on all my windows.  It cost less than 30 bucks for all 12 windows. I did it myself.
 
Trust that I'm never cold.
 
And while many will assume I had any number of advantages (which I did)....I spent over $95,000.00 (this year) helping other people with college, assistance towards heating bills for people I know in states that it costs something akin to 12 kabillion a year for heat, and other assistance I offered to close friends who weren't as fortunate.
 
But I read my loan docs....fully.  I was responsable towards the commitments I agreed to as to my future...that being....that which I agreed to for the next 30 years, i.e., my mortgage...which I committed to...and...my real estate has gone down in value.
 
No argument that there were many, nationwide, who didn't "understand" what they were up against....
 
Sorry....that's your job as a homeowner.  I have no pity for you because you opted for a dangerous loan that when re-adjusted....was outside of your ability to pay.
 
You're an adult.
 
No one lends money to teenagers....sorry....this is (your future)....your job.
 
Being a homeowner puts you "in the game".
 
Guess what?  If you're a runner...you're expected to cross the finish line.
 
The goal of course...is to place first.
 
If you're in the game...in the race....I truly hope you plan on finishing first...because if you're sincere....that'll insure that you finish in the top 20.
 
I'd be impressed if you finished in the top 74....in a race of 75.
 
But (in some cases)....shit happens.
 
Oooops.
 
If you're just here to make sure that you're in the list of players....sorry...I don't have a whole lot of sorrow for you if you tried...but didn't give enough of a shit to even place.
 
You very likely spend more on food than I spent on shirts....not my problem (or anyone else's for that matter).
 
It's your job to finish first....or at least try, with everything you have.
 
If you don't...I'm okay with that too.
 
But agree that if you don't finish first (or 53rd)...it' stills a race for winners. 
 
If you didn't finish first...it has nothing to do with someone else's desire to "keep you down".
 
"The Man" has a lot more in this life to worry about than you.  (Unless of course, you're not paying him what you owe him).
 
And in the meantime...even while I'll cheer you on...even dream of you on the front page (in fact...I fantasize daily of your success)...if you choose to lose...I have an apartment for you to rent.
 
And that's ok too.
 
Nothing wrong with that...but....
 
Don't hate the playah.
 
Ko?

I still maintain the credit agencies are at fault (I agree....these folks had an agenda....and it had nothing to do with you finishing first), as they created a credit for all situations, educated everyone that despite their circumstances, money can be had on credit (and naturally, greed set in). This being fact (and it is), everyone has gone for it. Yes....but no one forced you to take loans that you couldn't pay..or didn't take the time to read.

If they needed to lie, then they did (indeed), at the end of the day, they got what they wanted and in the case of this elderly lady, a remodeled house and not so much worry about repaying the debt due to circumstance.

I'm sorry...I don't have any great feelings of remorse for those who, as you describe...are elderly, young, uneducated, had a bout of bad luck (pick a dilemma)...and simply opted to pick a payment plan that they can't (knowingly) repay. 
 
Sorry....I'm lost on that one.
 
You (they) bought it...you (they) agreed to the payment schedule....sorry again...you made a contract.  A deal.  I, and they...expect you to keep your word.
 
You'd expect no less from others.
 
(Read the fine print...they expect you to actually pay what you agreed to....oooops....sorry once again....you signed a contract...made a deal...I...and they...expect you to honor it). 
 
You signed it.

She might get a poor credit rating, but who cares, she is elderly and unlikely to take out large credit sums in future. She has won at the expense of the economy.

Unfortunately....but without question...true.

After all, she was looking after No. 1, herself.

Ultimately...you've clarified my position.

If I were in a position to have cash available, I for certain would at this present time be battening down the hatches as to my finances, ready for the storm that may come, those who are in that situation, I would advise do the same.

(Couldn't have said it better...or more concisely).

If I were in that situation and financially secure in the storm, I then would be in a position to help others if needed.

And...see above (re: same)...you can't be if you're a user (which you are obviously not).  No one can help anyone until they've helped themselves....no less so than the person seated next you on a flight can't help you fit your oxygen mask until (you are) breathing normally (fitted with the mask)....likewise....you can't help anyone in adverse financial circumstances until you are financially reliable/capable yourself.
 
Allowing others to take the blame for your circumstances, all while you had charge of your own future....is a fools game...and puts you in the weakest of positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

Your right this is just the tip of the iceberg I relaized this was coming already greater than 3 years ago and predicted the start would occur last year  but I am expecting the worst period of this recession will be 3 to 6 years from now  and will likely last for least 10 years, it will be nasty and will affect many  countries