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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 12:36:09 PM   
LadyEllen


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Perhap Faery - but you'll still need ten guys to carry the battery

E

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 12:53:22 PM   
PanthersMom


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ooooh, nice!  we'll take two!

PM

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 12:55:04 PM   
A159753


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Not many are aware of that fact, I am "in the business" and hear everyday "You mean I CAN actually  have one of these" the look on someones face the first time they shoot a full auto or put a 200 rnd belt through a belt-fed 1919....priceless!

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 1:04:32 PM   
Zensee


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Gotta love the creepy, hushed, nature-show host voice he uses in the intro... "Be vewy vewy quiet. We're hunting shotguns! Heh heh heh heh heh..."


Z.


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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 3:31:01 PM   
DomKen


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I got to watch a test of the HK CAWS back when I was in the Navy and it looked like the recoil was nearly impossible to manage. The AA-12 really does look like they've solved that problem.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 3:50:21 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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It's very impressive, but like many have said here....I wouldn't want to be the one that totes it and the ammo around.  I can see it having applications for a lot of different jobs.  But, I wouldn't see it as an infantry weapon.  It goes through a lot of ammo pretty quickly, and the U.S. military is historically conservative about ammo usage.  I have doubt that it will get picked up in large numbers anytime soon. 

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 3:52:02 PM   
Sinergy


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Dragon Arms outside of Colorado Springs lets you get it out of your system with their twin .50 caliber machine gun.

Sinergy


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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 9:57:47 PM   
wkdshadow


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There's actually lots of places that'll let you go nuts with fullyautomatic weapons. Call up your local gunshops and ask if they know of any ranges that do Class 3 range rentals, you'll probably find one or two unless you live in a state with draconian firearm laws, like California. I'd recommend going for an MP5 if you've got the chance, 9mm is cheaper than 5.56, you can put more lead down range for less money.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:09:09 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

It's very impressive, but like many have said here....I wouldn't want to be the one that totes it and the ammo around.  I can see it having applications for a lot of different jobs.  But, I wouldn't see it as an infantry weapon.  It goes through a lot of ammo pretty quickly, and the U.S. military is historically conservative about ammo usage.  I have doubt that it will get picked up in large numbers anytime soon. 


But for mounted troops or in place of the 50 cal.that patrols carry,it might work well.

City patrols,house to house fire fights,riding ATVs and standing check points are great places to have one,or two.

The  50 cal.machine gunner usually gets help carring ammo anyway,so carring extra canisters is no big deal.

I`ll say one thing,in a fire fight I wouldn`t want anything less.Whatever is in front of you,dies.


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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:26:45 PM   
thompsonx


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FR
The three most overrated things in America.
Teenage pussy
Mack trucks
Automatic weapons
All three try to make up for a lack of talent with an overabundance of enthusiasm.
thompson

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:27:16 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

But for mounted troops or in place of the 50 cal.that patrols carry,it might work well.

City patrols,house to house fire fights,riding ATVs and standing check points are great places to have one,or two.

The  50 cal.machine gunner usually gets help carring ammo anyway,so carring extra canisters is no big deal.

I`ll say one thing,in a fire fight I wouldn`t want anything less.Whatever is in front of you,dies.


Oh I agree.  It would be an unbelievably powerful weapon in close quarters.  I saw a program not to long ago, and a expert said that a great deal of future wars would be fought in urban environments.  Shotguns are ideal for that.  They put out a lot of fire at close distances, and you don't have to worry about them killing some innocent person 10 blocks away.  I think someone else mentioned it; there have been auto shotguns around for awhile now.  The military has experimented with them, but have never bought them up.  Of course, if Blackwater has their hand in the pie; they just may do it.  Speaking of that, I didn't understand that from the video.  Is Blackwater funding the creation of it?   

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:34:08 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

But for mounted troops or in place of the 50 cal.that patrols carry,it might work well.

City patrols,house to house fire fights,riding ATVs and standing check points are great places to have one,or two.

The  50 cal.machine gunner usually gets help carring ammo anyway,so carring extra canisters is no big deal.

I`ll say one thing,in a fire fight I wouldn`t want anything less.Whatever is in front of you,dies.


Oh I agree.  It would be an unbelievably powerful weapon in close quarters.  I saw a program not to long ago, and a expert said that a great deal of future wars would be fought in urban environments.  Shotguns are ideal for that.  They put out a lot of fire at close distances, and you don't have to worry about them killing some innocent person 10 blocks away.  I think someone else mentioned it; there have been auto shotguns around for awhile now.  The military has experimented with them, but have never bought them up.  Of course, if Blackwater has their hand in the pie; they just may do it.  Speaking of that, I didn't understand that from the video.  Is Blackwater funding the creation of it?   


As I mentioned earlier Beretta has one you can buy tomorrow.  It is only $1100 plus tax of course.
I_WANT_TH...wmv (6.5 MB)






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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:34:40 PM   
airborne92


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There is one problem with the low recoil claim made in that video, and it was not brought up by anyone that claimed to either be in the business or is serving/has served in the military. All of the ammunition that is shown being fired through the weapon is "low brass" ammunition which is low recoil in its own desiign. I want to see how little recoil there is using "high brass" ammunition, which is what the military would use in it.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:40:24 PM   
wkdshadow


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12 gauge shells don't use brass generally outside of the rim and primer, the shell modern shell is plastic, old shells are paper. There are brass cases for 12 gauges, but they're pretty rare. If they're firing one ounce slugs out of that thing, the difference inbetween brass and plastic is moot point anyway.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:40:53 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: airborne92

There is one problem with the low recoil claim made in that video, and it was not brought up by anyone that claimed to either be in the business or is serving/has served in the military. All of the ammunition that is shown being fired through the weapon is "low brass" ammunition which is low recoil in its own desiign. I want to see how little recoil there is using "high brass" ammunition, which is what the military would use in it.

airborne:
I am not sure what you mean by "low brass vs.high brass" ammo.  If you are referring to full brass cartridges vs. paper or plastic casings I am unclear as to how that would affect recoil as the powder charge would be the same in either.
When I was in the service we were issued full brass shotgun shells in the tropics because the paper ones had a tendency to swell up and not extract.  I would expect that by now the plastic ones are pretty moisture proof.
thompson






< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/23/2008 10:45:14 PM >

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/23/2008 10:42:42 PM   
Owner59


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There were also the specialized rounds containing mini missiles and high explosive rounds.

The vid showed all types being fired.

It`s not perfect,but man what a sprayer.

Compair the recoil with the Russian full-auto shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2UoDw4zdsg&feature=related

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/23/2008 10:51:30 PM >

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/24/2008 2:07:26 AM   
Muttling


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The AA-12 is a tremendously good combat shot gun, but it remains just that.....a combat shotgun.  The M16's and M4s have three times the range along with a FAR superior ammo capacity per soldier.     Then you go to the M-14's and the sniper weapons such as the M-21 or M-24 and you get 5 fold or more increased ranges along with far superior ammo capacity.

It's a good weapon, but a specialists weapon and one that is better suited to military police forces than regular combat units.    The combat shotgun replaces the submachine gun in the Korean War.   It won't be replacing the assault rifle.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/24/2008 2:16:29 AM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

It's very impressive, but like many have said here....I wouldn't want to be the one that totes it and the ammo around.  I can see it having applications for a lot of different jobs.  But, I wouldn't see it as an infantry weapon.  It goes through a lot of ammo pretty quickly, and the U.S. military is historically conservative about ammo usage.  I have doubt that it will get picked up in large numbers anytime soon. 


But for mounted troops or in place of the 50 cal.that patrols carry,it might work well.

City patrols,house to house fire fights,riding ATVs and standing check points are great places to have one,or two.

The  50 cal.machine gunner usually gets help carring ammo anyway,so carring extra canisters is no big deal.

I`ll say one thing,in a fire fight I wouldn`t want anything less.Whatever is in front of you,dies.





The .50 cal?????      Have you ever handled a Browning M-2......also known as the Ma Duece?   It takes a 3 man crew to man handle that weapon and you can't fire it on the run.



Infantry doesn't "carry" a .50 cal.   That is a vehicle mounted weapon or a stationary weapon.    In the old days, the M-60 was the largest machine gun that was carried and that is 7.62 mm weapon.    Now days, the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon or "SAW" is the largest machine gun that is carried by infantry and it is a 5.56 mm.

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/24/2008 2:23:41 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

The AA-12 is a tremendously good combat shot gun, but it remains just that.....a combat shotgun.  The M16's and M4s have three times the range along with a FAR superior ammo capacity per soldier.     Then you go to the M-14's and the sniper weapons such as the M-21 or M-24 and you get 5 fold or more increased ranges along with far superior ammo capacity.

It's a good weapon, but a specialists weapon and one that is better suited to military police forces than regular combat units.    The combat shotgun replaces the submachine gun in the Korean War.   It won't be replacing the assault rifle.


I would have thought that anyone would find it obvious that this weapon was being developed for OOTW.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 2/24/2008 2:25:32 AM >

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RE: Deadliest shoot gun in the world.A gun lovers orgas... - 2/24/2008 2:27:03 AM   
wkdshadow


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quote:

The M16's and M4s have three times the range
You're actually limited extensively by the barrel on your weapon. An m4 with a 14 inch barrel is meant for CQB. Outside of 20m to 40m or so, you're below 2400FPS and the 5.56x45 ball round fails to fragment and seperate along the cannalure. With a 16 inch barrel you've got 60m or so before it no longer fragments. If you're shooting at any decent distance, the 5.56x45 is not the round you are looking for, even with a 20". It makes small holes and small wound channels when it doesn't fragment.

The distance of a shotgun is understated greatly, because of people's assumption that it's using buckshot. Using a slug will give you a relatively flat trajectory with a much larger wound channel out to 150 to 200m, transfering much more inertia into your target. It's common practice in the field to load shotguns to full capacity with buckshot, minus one round. You're ready to go for CQB, and if someone starts shooting at you from a distance you simply pop a slug into the tube, pump, take aim, and fire.

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