RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (Full Version)

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BlackPhx -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 9:34:05 AM)

There are many who will answer questions for you privately if you are reluctant to bring what may be a new question for you but old for them to the forums. Pick people who have earned your respect in their postings and ask if they can answer a few questions for you. More than a few I have the feeling will be happy to oblige.

poenkitten



kyraofMists -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 9:50:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
Kyraofmists: of course you are right.  no one can make me feel stupid.  You'll notice I said TRY to make me feel stupid in my post.  I've been treated worse by better, and they didn't manage to make me feel stupid, anymore than these "fine folks" did.  Also, it's not about my focus.  Rude is rude.  A wagon is a wagon no matter what color you paint it.  I do intend to set my annoyance aside and take your advice.  I'll focus on getting what I want and/or need from the very patient answers to my questions, and ignore the rest.


Yes, I did see the try.  However, it is your perception and an assumption that that is their intent.  Words on a screen tend to be very misunderstood since they lack tone of voice and body posture.  And it is very much about what the person reading is focused on.  I will give you a personal example.

Someone in a thread called me a "goody two shoes" since I had not received an email from Mod XI.  I laughed and thought it was clever.  I started a thread in random stupidity to see if there were other goody two shoes as well.  Someone else posted to my thread and perceived the goody two shoes label to be an insult to me.  I saw it as clever and was pleased with the comment and someone else saw it as rude.  Who was right in our perception? 

Rude is not always rude.  Rude is a perception and many times an assumption made by the reader.  Personally, I see refering to people as "Elistist" as rude.  However, I am not going to worry over since negative judgments by others have little value to me.  The negative judgment may be justified; then again it may just be a misunderstanding.

The written word leaves much to be desired in appreciating someone elses intent.  I know when I first started reading I had to break myself of the bad habit of assuming what someone was feeling based on the words they were writing.  Often what I was doing was projecting what I would be feeling if I wrote what they did.  When I stopped projecting my emotions on to them and stopped focusing on what I perceived as negative my enjoyment of this board greatly increased.  The people posting did not change; I changed. 

I am glad that you are going to focus on what you perceive as positive. 

Have a good day.

Knight's Kyra



CalifChick -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 9:53:29 AM)

Some random thoughts (not all for the same person):

If you post a question, and then say "but don't give me any links, I don't want to read them, tell me what YOU think about MY question", then you're already perceived as having an attitude and people respond to that.  I think I remember one of your posts (the OP), and the attitude that I perceived was that you didn't want to be bothered to do any of your own research, even if the exact same question had been asked just the day before.  I'm not saying that is the truth of it for you, I'm saying that was the perception.  It does not make lots of people want to help.  Now if you had said, "I read all these old threads and links, and I'm still confused, so I'm going to ask this question and perhaps get a fresh perspective that I'm missing"... well, can you see the difference?

Old threads:  When an old thread is resurrected, people get all involved in giving the OP advice and urging them to do whatever, when the original question was asked two years ago and maybe that OP isn't even around anymore.  If you have a question about the same thing, read the old thread that you found and then if it is still not clear, ask a new question on a new thread.  But just resurrecting an old thread to say you agree or what you would have done in that situation, well, yes, it can irritate people.  And yes, they can always ignore it, but let's get real about THAT.

Rudeness:  Don't mistake bluntness or directness for rudeness.  Rudeness is generally considered the deliberate act of doing something to offend someone.  Perhaps someone's directness could be misconstrued as deliberately TRYING to offend you.

Cali



Dnomyar -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:28:13 AM)

Puts gloves on. Come on chicky poo spar with me. punchy, punchy. OP. Nobody here is out to get you. If someone here piss'es you off then go to their private mail and state your case. BUT. Don't do that if you are sensitive and cry easy.  



amadeus77 -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:36:38 AM)

I don't think it's such a bad idea, at all. I'm new to this board, but not to boards in general. One thing I've noticed is that the relative anonymity of online posting brings the essential person out. Those who are insecure about themselves reveal it. Usually, it comes out not as "Gee, I hope I'm not bothering anyone..." but rather "Dumb ass! Dare you intrude on our sacred turf with your newbie inanity?!" I think this is particularly true with BDSM where weak people try to recast themselves as "Doms" simply by being rude.

The only way to change the tone of a board is to have more posters on that act as decent human beings. After a while, the vermin go back under their rocks, or rather move onto another board.  



IXian -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:41:32 AM)

I do have to agree that an newbie sub-forum might be self defeating as it creates a barrier that could isolate newbies from potential constructive discussions with other forumites. But I don't view simple explanations as anything but gross oversimplifications.
The assumption that experienced forumites are inherently more able to guide an beginner is best described as faulty logic since
being an newbie doesn't imply having no relevant experience.

Neither can anyone(sane IMHO) claim that there are no challenges connected with such a suggestion. One that strikes me as a possibility is that if there was a sub-forum for newbies, how often would Elitists and other Trolls (notice the capital letters? ^_^) try to hijack or derail critics _and/or_ newbies by telling them to get back into the "kindergarden" area? And equally probable, would even kind/polite suggestions to "Go read the newbie sub-forum" be (mis)constructed as Elitist/Troll flaming?

On the other hand, you do have a very valid point. Any self-respecting and non-suicidal community(both online and IRL) need to make newbies feel welcome and this does require special care . (just as in RL ^_^)
First of all, all communities have unwritten rules/guidelines. How can a beginner even know them if they aren't told what they are? Secondly, beginners do ask certain questions more often than others. Have anyone tried to write a FAQ ?

I'm not implying that there is a "The Right Way", but I do think that there might be certain things that most of the community members would agree that any newbie should know about .. Right? And that such a thread could be put on sticky by a moderator in existing sub forums? But I do recommend that it shouldn't be frozen as such a thread shouldn't be permanent. It's the community's responsibility to write it and revise it, _NOT_ the moderators.

Here are some constructive suggestions for sticky topics/threads that might appeal to a newbie the first time they joined:

Introductions: " The beginners guide to introductions and profiles; 10 great tips on how to make friends."
General BDSM: "The beginners guide to collarme; How to ask the right questions and the golden rule(s)."
Ask a xxxxx: "The beginners guide to life as a Dominant." "The beginners guide to life as a Submissive." etc.
Health and Safety: "The beginners guide to Safe,Sane and Concensual. A selection of different views."
(I apologize to those who are active in sub-forums I haven't mentioned, no slight or injustice intended.)

Of course, this is not a comprehensive list or in any way set in stone. (After all I'm a newbie to both bdsm _and_ CM).
A word of warning, neither a sub-forum or a newbie FAQ in each sub-forum will completely stop frustrated newbies from demanding answers to questions that are bloody obvious if he/she bothered to read the topic list two pages back or spent 15 seconds getting acquainted with forum search functions. Nor will it completely stop Trolls and /or normaly sane forumits from screaming in frustration at a beginner. In a way, maybe the most important thing would be that such FAQ/threads would signal that CM has a friendly attitude towards newbies/beginners?


Signing off, IXian.



kyraofMists -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:42:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amadeus77

I don't think it's such a bad idea, at all. I'm new to this board, but not to boards in general. One thing I've noticed is that the relative anonymity of online posting brings the essential person out. Those who are insecure about themselves reveal it. Usually, it comes out not as "Gee, I hope I'm not bothering anyone..." but rather "Dumb ass! Dare you intrude on our sacred turf with your newbie inanity?!" I think this is particularly true with BDSM where weak people try to recast themselves as "Doms" simply by being rude.

The only way to change the tone of a board is to have more posters on that act as decent human beings. After a while, the vermin go back under their rocks, or rather move onto another board.  


I just don't get this attitude where people make posts speaking out against people being rude but then go on to call those people weak, insecure and vermin.  Do you not see that you are doing the exact same thing you accuse others of?  What is the purpose in this?

Pot meet kettle... you are both black.

Knight's Kyra



kittinSol -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:51:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

Thanks to all who responded, especially the "elitists." 



Names?



CalifChick -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:54:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Puts gloves on. Come on chicky poo spar with me. punchy, punchy.


I make one, ONE, serious post and this is the disrespect I get?  Are those boxing gloves?  Punchy?  Ray, Ray, Ray... I thought you knew me better than that.  It's smooth leather gloves and a firm smack to the ass, no punching.  Sheesh.

Cali
(who wonders if someone called her an Elitist)



mnottertail -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:54:28 AM)

alumbrado certainly.......historical illuminati of one sort or another, so you gotta go with meaning.

me, just because I said put all the goddam toilet seats down and then there aint gonna be no more goddam arguing.

couple others possibly.

Talleyrand 



kittinSol -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:57:52 AM)

Pah! Did you see that Lucky has a 'Condemned' sticker now :-) ? You have much to catch up with [8D] .

Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue crawling behind the elite, at the back, with the rest of the fray.

Exciting!!!



Jeffff -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 10:59:20 AM)

Can't be me, I didn't respond. bedsides, I am all soft n cuddly, everyone knows that.

Course I think it is a silly idea. If you come here lurk and read for a while, you will be ok.

SuperiorDom



CalifChick -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:03:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Can't be me, I didn't respond. bedsides, I am all soft n cuddly, everyone knows that.
Course I think it is a silly idea. If you come here lurk and read for a while, you will be ok.


Soft.  Uh huh.  We've discussed that word before, and the fact that it doesn't apply to your, um, you, um, well... hmmm.  Uh, what was I saying?

Obligatory on-topic remarks:  I have to agree that for being such an easy solution, reading and lurking does seem to work.

Cali



kyraofMists -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:05:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

Thanks to all who responded, especially the "elitists." 



Names?


But naming names would be rude.  I think it is more polite to call people names without actually letting others know exactly who you are refering to  [;)]

Of course, now I am wondering if I am elite or fray....  sounds so much sexier/sluttier to be fray....

Knight's Kyra

*in case my intent is misunderstood... this post is meant to be sarcastic.



kittinSol -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:06:48 AM)

Oh, I never meant for anyone to seriously name names. Never been a fan of lists myself :-) .



Jeffff -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:08:49 AM)

smirks..........Elitist!!

Jeff



LaTigresse -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:09:30 AM)

I aspire to be fray.........sounds ever so much more fun. I think the company might be better also.



kittinSol -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:10:03 AM)

You'll get there... one day...



batshalom -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:13:15 AM)

~Fast Reply~

I didn't read all the replies, so please pardon me if this is a repost.

To the OP, if you have a question that makes you feel self-conscious about posing in public, pick some people from the boards you typically respect and pose questions privately.



Jeffff -> RE: Whaddya think? A forum for newbies? (2/14/2008 11:13:50 AM)

I just don't get it. Someone "new" comes in and makes a post. The post is discussed rather reasonably. Then people who don't agree with it are labeled. In the newbie forum, would everyone be too shy to disagree? To afraid to be labeled fakes, wannabees or........elitists?

CrankyDom
(above the fray)...:)



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