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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 4:04:55 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		As  a kid, I day dreamed about being independent with my own career and money and a handsome adoring man on my arm. 

All my childhood, my parents owned a wedding reception centre. Every weekend, happy couples come in to book the party for their Big Day and as they left, dad would hiss "suckers!".

I got the message loud and clear.  My parents' marriage was utterly miserable and yet they sold the happy white wedding fantasy for a living.

I still got married once, because my then de facto husband wanted it so much.  But we eloped - no white dress, cake, limos and over-priced dinner for 500.  Not after watching 100s of tacky weddings at my parents' restaurant

Marriage did not suit me.  Still doesn't, although I am now finding very little difference between living with a man 24/7 and being married to one.  It is equally challenging and rewarding.  The only real difference is legal protection (as mentioned by others)

As for my own little girl?  I will emphasise the joy of finding true love and caution her to start a family earlier rather than later if she wants children.  Our generation has been so indoctrinated that money and career is vital for women that we have deferred having babies until it is often too late.  IVF in your 40s is a horrible roller coaster with lousy odds of success.  I wouldn't wish the trauma of infertility on my worst enemy

If my daughter wants to get married, good luck to her.  But the success rate isn't great, so I will probably do a free pre-nuptial for her as an engagement present*!!!





* thats'a joke.  I will let her live her own life and make her own mistakes

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(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/15/2008 6:17:42 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Waves to TammyJo...

Good ol' Betty Friedan, huh?

Back in the day...my parent's day...few women were educated or trained in anything that offered a way to support themselves, much less their children. Plus, it was frowned upon not to be married, I think. Perhaps the best thing to come outta WWII was Rosie the Riveter! Even though those women who discovered they could do good work afterall were booted out so 'men who needed to support a family' could have a job (an excuse I was actually given as a reason I was not promoted at Texaco not 15 years ago!), I believe enough of them had a taste of good solid employment and things started changing.

I could be wrong...it's been a long haul for women. It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does! An interesting thought to ponder...

MsB


Friedan was the starting point but her observations and biography have been backed up by historical studies over the decades. I just think it's sad that when people have limitations placed on them they feel the need to use methods to ease their emotional and mental pain that can have serious physical, mental and emotional consequences for them and others around them.

I think that Senator Clinton would be a great president but frankly I thought of them on the Dem side would be just bloody fine at the job. I think two factors work against her. First the neo-cons have been working now for about 16 years to trash the Clintons. Second sexism is much more accepted openly in the country than racism is. I think it would be much easier for the Republicans to attack Clinton openly than to attack Obama openly because of that. The differences between those two are minor frankly and seem focused on the details of how to achieve very similar if not identical goals.

Historically speaking claims like "well we don't need another family member to be elected" ignore the political trends of electing women. I can't think of one single woman in history who was the first to achieve a high political office whose father or husband did not also hold high political office or exercise a lot of public influence. Wives and daughters are the first women to hold these positions. Doesn't mean it MUST be that way but it is the historical reality thus far. After this first woman, the door more open.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/15/2008 7:07:34 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I think that Senator Clinton would be a great president but frankly I thought of them on the Dem side would be just bloody fine at the job. I think two factors work against her. First the neo-cons have been working now for about 16 years to trash the Clintons. Second sexism is much more accepted openly in the country than racism is. I think it would be much easier for the Republicans to attack Clinton openly than to attack Obama openly because of that. The differences between those two are minor frankly and seem focused on the details of how to achieve very similar if not identical goals.


Actually there are many differences between the two.  Hillary is not being trashed because she is a woman.  She is being trashed because of her and her husband's sordid history.  The Clintons will say and do anything to seize power, and they have a sense of entitlement.  I have disliked the Clintons since they were in the Governor's mansion here.  It really irritates me when someone uses her sex as a reason for her being despised by so many people.  She has earned that reputation through her actions.  I would readily vote for a woman, but never for Hillary Clinton.  I want the Clintons to go away, and stay away.  They have caused enough problems for the United States. 

quote:

Historically speaking claims like "well we don't need another family member to be elected" ignore the political trends of electing women. I can't think of one single woman in history who was the first to achieve a high political office whose father or husband did not also hold high political office or exercise a lot of public influence. Wives and daughters are the first women to hold these positions. Doesn't mean it MUST be that way but it is the historical reality thus far. After this first woman, the door more open. 


This is not entirely true.  I can think of a few female leaders that did not have powerful husbands or fathers.  The world's first elected female president was Vigdís Finnbogadóttir of Iceland.  Her mother was a nurse, and she was not a member of a prominent political family.  Margaret Thatcher's father was a shopkeeper and a alderman.  An alderman is not exactly a high office in politics.  The first female PM of New Zealand was Jenny Shipley.  Her father was a farmer, and she was educated as a school teacher.  Mary Robinson was the first female president of Ireland.  Her parents were doctors who were not active in politics.  She met her husband in college, who was a Protestant.  This caused quite a stir in her family, but again her husband was not active in politics. 

The above women are just the ones off the top of my head.  I know there are more example if I wanted to dig for them. 

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/15/2008 7:41:19 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

I think that Senator Clinton would be a great president but frankly I thought of them on the Dem side would be just bloody fine at the job. I think two factors work against her. First the neo-cons have been working now for about 16 years to trash the Clintons. Second sexism is much more accepted openly in the country than racism is. I think it would be much easier for the Republicans to attack Clinton openly than to attack Obama openly because of that. The differences between those two are minor frankly and seem focused on the details of how to achieve very similar if not identical goals.


Actually there are many differences between the two. Hillary is not being trashed because she is a woman. She is being trashed because of her and her husband's sordid history. The Clintons will say and do anything to seize power, and they have a sense of entitlement. I have disliked the Clintons since they were in the Governor's mansion here. It really irritates me when someone uses her sex as a reason for her being despised by so many people. She has earned that reputation through her actions. I would readily vote for a woman, but never for Hillary Clinton. I want the Clintons to go away, and stay away. They have caused enough problems for the United States.


Can you describe some of those problems?

My family and the country as far as I can tell did pretty damned well when President was in office. Certainly better than the current Bush in office has done for us and I'd say better than Regan or the first Bush did.

Presidents are limited (or should be) in their authority and power via the Constitution so we always need to be wary of what we place on the President and what we place on the courts and on the Congress.

How exactly do the Cllintons differ then, if what you say above is true, from any other "political family" though I strongly hesitate to call them that considering they do not have generations and generations in wealth and political power at least on his side. How exactly do they differ?


quote:

Historically speaking claims like "well we don't need another family member to be elected" ignore the political trends of electing women. I can't think of one single woman in history who was the first to achieve a high political office whose father or husband did not also hold high political office or exercise a lot of public influence. Wives and daughters are the first women to hold these positions. Doesn't mean it MUST be that way but it is the historical reality thus far. After this first woman, the door more open.


This is not entirely true. I can think of a few female leaders that did not have powerful husbands or fathers. The world's first elected female president was Vigdís Finnbogadóttir of Iceland. Her mother was a nurse, and she was not a member of a prominent political family. Margaret Thatcher's father was a shopkeeper and a alderman. An alderman is not exactly a high office in politics. The first female PM of New Zealand was Jenny Shipley. Her father was a farmer, and she was educated as a school teacher. Mary Robinson was the first female president of Ireland. Her parents were doctors who were not active in politics. She met her husband in college, who was a Protestant. This caused quite a stir in her family, but again her husband was not active in politics.

The above women are just the ones off the top of my head. I know there are more example if I wanted to dig for them.


I'm glad some things have changed then. When I took a women in politics class in 1992 none of texts mention any women who didn't have male relatives in office.

We all of these women though the first in political power and authority? In elected office? Just wondering because it strongly contradicts what I was taught in college in a political science class, not the world most liberal of academic fields but also not the most conservative either.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/15/2008 12:28:45 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline 		It seems to me that the societal pressure to marry and reproduce is decreasing.  Singletude, cohabitation, and marriage with no progeny are more acceptable lifestyle choices than they used to be, and despite the screamers, society generally is more accepting of same-sex couples and alternative lifestyle choices.  That is not to say that there isn’t pressure to marry and reproduce or that it isn’t increasing, but I think that a substantial source of the pressure is coming not from society, but from potential grandmas.

Being a grandparent is the payoff for all those years one spent as a parent.  It can be the thing that truly confirms that you made the right decision in not killing your kid when it was a teenager.  That’s a joke.  Kind of.

I will soon be 50, getting into prime grandma age.  While people my parents’ age often had four or more kids out there as possible grandchild producers and didn’t really have to sweat it much, people my age often have only one or two kids.  That seemed like a good idea when we were procreating, but now that we’re waiting for the payoff/grandchildren, some of us find ourselves wondering whether we have our eggs in too few baskets, so to speak. 
I am fortunate that my only child has already produced 3 grandchildren for me.  I know a number of people my age whose children are single and childless who are starting to get a little tweeky.  They don’t want their kids out there randomly reproducing, but they’re doing the math – a year or two of dating, a year or three engaged, some years of marriage before the kids start coming…  If their kid doesn’t get out there and meet Mr/Ms Right and start reproducing soon, grandma may not be up to taking the grandkid on rides at the amusement park or going camping or spending the day walking around the children’s museum.  You don’t really want to push your kid to become an unwed parent, so pushing marriage seems a more reasonable path to grandchildren.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/15/2008 6:11:59 PM   
vampchick88


Posts: 346
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline 		 I grew up thinking that girls are suposed to get married to a handsome man, he'll work while the woman stays at home and has children, does housework, and cooks. I kinda broke the mold when I started going to college. I still have a dream wedding in mine, one fetish in rubber and one in a pretty fabric dress. I was told to have as many children as possible and do not want any. I think once the 'little girls' begin to grow up we get our own sense of self as well as making decisions of what we do or do not want.

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 6:46:43 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vampchick88
I think once the 'little girls' begin to grow up we get our own sense of self as well as making decisions of what we do or do not want.


Hopefully what you say is true for many but sadly I've seen it is not the case for most. I think for most people (sex and gender isn't the real issue) it either takes a strong innate personality or a bad experience to help us shake our upbringing.

In a way I guess such inability provides some stability for the society but I wonder at what risks and damage to the individuals in it and for future societies that might be improved by positive change.

Of course, as I said in another thread, I guess most prefer the devil they know than the one they don't.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 7:48:42 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
 
It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does!  An interesting thought to ponder...
 
MsB


I know this post is about "marriage" but could you please explain what you meant by this statement?  I'd rather not assume anything!  Does this have to be a man/woman  black/white issue?  Can it simply be he's the better choice?
 
In response to the OP

My mother didn't encourage marriage per se but she would say, "when you get married...(she had several fill ins that followed).  I actually decided I wouldn't get married because of her marriage.  She and my step-father fought all the time.  They were physically abusive to each other and they would destroy the house; literally when they fought.  She was more violent than he was.  She stabbed him before, burned him with boiling water, cut his clothes up and once set them on fire, in the house!  So given that history I never envisioned myself married.

I left home at 18 and joined the Army.  I had always been a "tomboy" which is now called "atheletic".  When I got out of the Army I was apartment hunting with my step-father and when I was pumping gas he said I should have, "been a boy".  Those were the days when there was still "full service pumps" and he had never pumped gas before.  I thought it was funny how he associated pumping gas a man thing.

I didn't push marriage on my three daughters and when my oldest was purposed to by her high school sweetheart, on the night she graduated I was worried that she was too young to even consider marriage.  I encouraged her not to let the engagement stand in the way of her completing college.  They have been married almost 10 years now and I have to honestly say, if I had someone as great as my son-in-law, I would consider marrying again.

Yes, I did get married and it was great for many years and then because of some things that changed in his life, he changed.  That's another story...

My middle and youngest daughters are still single and are working and in school.  I never hear them talking about getting married but I don't wonder why.  I didn't give them a negative view of marriage, it's just something they haven't had come up in their lives.

I do remember telling them to take their time and choose well, work hard at it if they do marry but to never allow themselves to be used or abused, to be independent, and have careers so they can be self sufficient.

I believe in marriage and wish the other two have a marriage that is as beautiful as my oldest daughters is.  She's a teacher and he's a stay at home dad after he was diagnosed with MS.  He wanted to spend as much time with their babies because with MS you never know how things will go.  They are loving and living a fairy tale.  In fact they give me hope!  lol

Faye


< Message edited by MistressFaye1 -- 2/16/2008 7:49:39 AM >

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 8:41:31 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFaye1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
 
It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does!  An interesting thought to ponder...
 
MsB


I know this post is about "marriage" but could you please explain what you meant by this statement?  I'd rather not assume anything!  Does this have to be a man/woman  black/white issue?  Can it simply be he's the better choice?   


It meant nothing, other than I found it interesting to ponder...sort of like having a button in your mouth; just something to roll-around.  American history, for both blacks and for women has been difficult...this being about the first time either have made it so far in politics...I found it interesting to step back and just look at it.  Like a hologram; regardless of what it might represent...it's just interesting to watch.
 
As far as who is the better choice...I'm leaning towards Obama.  Like you, I'd imagine; I do see the person.
 
MsB

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 9:02:07 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I was also a "tomboy" and I've always pumped my own gas which years back, got me some strange looks. My parents had a good marriage, oh they fought like tigers sometimes. But I believe a lot of that was due to the fact that my Mom was an abused child and had been in an extremely abusive first marriage. She had lots of issues and back then no one went to therapy as it was considered a "stigma".

When my daughter asks about marriage I tell her college first, then your career then consider it. I don't see any reason to rush into anything, I do not believe in the "old maid". But my Mother of course tries to tell her that she doesn't need to finish high school, just to get a husband, settle down and have babies. My daughter gags into the phone when Mom says this. She has no intention of quitting school and in fact is already looking at colleges. She wants to be a Psychologist and I encourage her every step of the way.

It sounds like your daughter has a great marriage, I hope that everything works out for her.

~Lashra


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 9:02:35 AM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

My sub and I had an interesting conversation about views on marriage. He said when he was growing up that his parents rarely spoke to him about getting married when he was older and grandchildren were never mentioned. But he always felt he wanted to settle down and get married someday.

My turn in the conversation came and I told him how my Mother always harped about getting married and having kids when I was of age. I tuned her out pretty much and I never had those little girl dreams of walking down the aisle in a long white gown. In fact my dreams were of a career and buying my own house someday. My Dad discouraged me from focusing on marriage and children. He instead tried to focus my attention on school and a career.

I never really felt I wanted to get married, but I did want to have a child someday. I gave marriage a try and I am now happily divorced. I don't think I want to try marriage again though my sub really wants to someday.

My questions are this: When you were younger did you day dream about the perfect wedding? or like me did you daydream about a career and a home? Also do you think we push the idea of marriage and children a bit to much on our children, girls in particular?

~Lashra


Yes, I did as a kid because it's one of those events that are idealized and pushed on us as being happy and perfect, and not because out of any need.  I think this is pushed on everyone on society as a good thing (just like a career, going to college, having kids)..because doing those things increases your chances of happiness (instead of going against society's grain and become kinky, or turn out gay or lesbian, because doing those things is against the norm and you'll meet a lot of resistance/unhappiness in your life).  I think the parents are where it might be pushed too much on kids, especially if the kids are not built for marriage for one reason or another.  I think girls are pushed to marriage a little more because its tough to be a single mom (still discrimination against women, plus having kids is obvioulsly harder for women than men 9 months of pain heh) and the parents do want grandchildren...  Speaking of grandchildren, the parents may push too much if they want to see their kid(s) settle down and they want grandchildren.  My mom would love to see me get settled down, but everytime I bring up a guy, she starts to meddle pressure etc., which makes me exasperated about my current relationship, rather than just enjoy it and see where it goes.  That's my two cents...


(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 11:01:20 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I was also a "tomboy" and I've always pumped my own gas which years back, got me some strange looks. My parents had a good marriage, oh they fought like tigers sometimes. But I believe a lot of that was due to the fact that my Mom was an abused child and had been in an extremely abusive first marriage. She had lots of issues and back then no one went to therapy as it was considered a "stigma".

When my daughter asks about marriage I tell her college first, then your career then consider it. I don't see any reason to rush into anything, I do not believe in the "old maid". But my Mother of course tries to tell her that she doesn't need to finish high school, just to get a husband, settle down and have babies. My daughter gags into the phone when Mom says this. She has no intention of quitting school and in fact is already looking at colleges. She wants to be a Psychologist and I encourage her every step of the way.

It sounds like your daughter has a great marriage, I hope that everything works out for her.

~Lashra



Lashra,

Thank you!  They are keepers and will no doubt grow old together!

Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 11:09:33 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFaye1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
 
It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does!  An interesting thought to ponder...
 
MsB


I know this post is about "marriage" but could you please explain what you meant by this statement?  I'd rather not assume anything!  Does this have to be a man/woman  black/white issue?  Can it simply be he's the better choice?   


It meant nothing, other than I found it interesting to ponder...sort of like having a button in your mouth; just something to roll-around.  American history, for both blacks and for women has been difficult...this being about the first time either have made it so far in politics...I found it interesting to step back and just look at it.  Like a hologram; regardless of what it might represent...it's just interesting to watch.
 
As far as who is the better choice...I'm leaning towards Obama.  Like you, I'd imagine; I do see the person.
 
MsB


Thank you for responding to my question.  I really appreciate it.  I may be hypersensitive to some comments but I make sure I understand what the person is saying before I respond.

That comes from being an African-American woman that became part of the "old Army" when they decided to merge the WACS into the regular Army.  I didn't settle for the clerk positions or medical positions as most women did back then.  I was in a male dominated field (law enforcement) and was one of the first 6 women to make it through and the first African American woman to do so.

I worked harder to get as far as I did but there was always someone that played the "killed two birds with one stone" card.

Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to MsBearlee)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 12:47:18 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting topic Lashra.

I don't ever remember wanting to get married.  I remember distinctly NOT wanting to be married and I kept that feeling until one moment when I was getting ready for work and looked at my late husband (my b/f at the time) and told him that if he really wanted to marry me, he'd only be able to ask me for one day, after that I would come to my senses and never discuss it again.
He asked.  - I learned to never say anything during a moment of emotion...lol

Not taking into consideration any kind of legal issues, I can say I am not interested in marriage at this point in life.  As for what tomorrow or the next day brings, I don't spend my time thinking about it, I just know better than to use the word "never" because it always comes back to bite me in the ass.

Lady Jag

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 12:52:20 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		I think lots of women want the perfect wedding but could easily do without the marriage part .......

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 1:31:04 PM   
MissLily


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		Very good question.... marriage...

Well, I do want to get married, but then again, My idea of marriage has nothing to do with the conventional thing.

For one thing, I've always had a gagging reflex when seeing, being or hearing about big white dresses, conventional ceremonies and parties. My goodness!!! I must say I understand it's tradition, but it's soooooo not for Me!!!!

No, for Me, marriage is an exchange of promise and commitment. I do hope to get married one day, but if I don't then fine. It only means I have not found a person I can exchange this promise with.

Besides, marriage, if you take the materialistic aspect of it is an exchange of vows, no?

It would also be a very private thing. Me him and witnesses if the law insists on it. No parties and no fancy clothes.

Miss Lily

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 2:28:55 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		MissLily,

I didn't even do the white dress thing when I DID get married.  I wore an iridescent emerald green blouse and a black skirt, got married in my grandmother's living room with a garland of daiseys draping the spot, and had my mother's ex boyfriend perform the ceremony.  - How's that for non traditional?

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 4:23:31 PM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline 		(FR)

Hmm I did. More about the marriage then the wedding. When I've talked to my mom about it we both agree that the wedding is nice but all it is a big party. Through marriage really has never been pushed more of an assumed thing. Along with going to college and getting a job are assumed as well.

I still don't see a reason why I wouldn't have both. Plus the marriage I would have would be my marriage, so it wouldn't have to be "1950s".



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(in reply to PsyVamp)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 8:25:39 PM   
achildatheart


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		My mom is worried that I wont get married because I am not big into the dating scene. I've never fantizied about getting married when I was a little girl. I had to "plan" my own wedding for my floral design class my Senior year in High School and it didn't appeal to me one bit 

She is always talking about me making her grand babies. I kinda don't want to have kids, but don't have the heart to tell her.

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(in reply to SunNMoon)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Views on Marriage - 2/16/2008 8:35:20 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Can you describe some of those problems?

My family and the country as far as I can tell did pretty damned well when President was in office. Certainly better than the current Bush in office has done for us and I'd say better than Regan or the first Bush did.

Presidents are limited (or should be) in their authority and power via the Constitution so we always need to be wary of what we place on the President and what we place on the courts and on the Congress.

How exactly do the Cllintons differ then, if what you say above is true, from any other "political family" though I strongly hesitate to call them that considering they do not have generations and generations in wealth and political power at least on his side. How exactly do they differ?


Well I will give you a few in regards to Hillary.  She tried to cram socialized medicine down our throats in the 90's.  She is going to try it again if she is elected.  It's a bad plan, and it will destroy medicine as we know it in this country.  I don't want the government telling me what medical plan I should have.  It's none of their business.  That's one of the things that scare me about her.

I grew up in Arkansas.  I remember what went on with the Clintons when they were here.  They held on to power because of the politics here.  Arkansas is one of three southern states that still votes Democratic overwhelmingly.  That's a throwback from the Civil War.  One of Bill Clintons best buddies was Orville Faubus.  If you don't remember, he is the guy that stood in front of Cental High School in Little Rock and refused to let black students in.  The Clintons were part of a extremely corrupt political machine here, and I they brought that experience with them to Washington. 

Hillary Clinton is a globalist, and she is fooling people when she says she wants to withdraw us from Iraq.  She voted for it, and she has voted for ever dollar that Bush has asked for.  I was against that war in the beginning.  Most REAL right wingers were.  When people call Bush a conservative, I want to punch them.  He is a neo-con, which is a liberal element in the Republican party going back to the Nixon-Rockefeller split.  Hillary is just slightly to the left of Bush.  She believes in American imperialism, and so did her husband.  You should remember that the largest period of the Iraqi embargo was under her husband. 

Lastly I will say this; I don't like Hillary Clinton's views on the 2nd amendment.  I WILL NOT vote for someone that wants to take away my God given right to defend myself and my loved ones.  Hillary wants to do that, and she is unsuitable for office as a result. 

quote:

I'm glad some things have changed then. When I took a women in politics class in 1992 none of texts mention any women who didn't have male relatives in office.

We all of these women though the first in political power and authority? In elected office? Just wondering because it strongly contradicts what I was taught in college in a political science class, not the world most liberal of academic fields but also not the most conservative either.


I went to college too, so I understand.  I had to take gender studies, and none of the texts mentioned it either.  Consider the source of those texts and the professors who assigned them.  I don't imagine they were exactly unbiased.  This is not new, the Iceland example I mentioned happened in the 80's.  You are only 6 years older than I am.  We have seen the same world events come and go for the most part.  I never trusted my college professors.  I did my own reading, and I resisted their efforts to indoctrinate me with globalist liberalism. 

I had the benefit of majoring in three different disiplines before I decided on my path.  I originally majored in criminal justice, which a conservative field of study. I moved on to philosophy, which was half and half.  I left school for awhile after that, because I needed to make money.  When I went back, I double majored in history and criminal justice.  It was an amazing contrast.  I enjoyed both subjects, and I still do.  But the academics in both disciplines are worlds apart.  It was an eye opener.  I don't trust or academia or give it much credence as a result.  By the way, I mean no offense by that.  I liked my professors, I just didn't agree with most of them.  I can only think of one history professor that I had who was a paleoconservative like me. 


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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