RE: To profit off suffering… (Full Version)

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MichiganHeadmast -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:19:24 PM)

Got an extra application?



LadyEllen -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:22:58 PM)

Trying to take a positive view here CL

This is an internship for a few months that will greatly assist the funding of your education? Its not a matter of providing for a family.

I would advise you to take it. If upon getting to know whats going on, it turns out to be acceptable to you, then stay and get your career. If its not acceptable, take the knowledge you gained of how the company works and leave with the funding for your education - if you then want to fight the tobacco industry in future you have some means to do so.

E



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:25:47 PM)

Strange logic that, people are constantly debating here the balance between taxation from tobacco and the cost to the NHS of smoking. Some taxation is in place to persuade people to live the way the government wants them to. Government understands people don't want to follow government ideas but will yield to government ideas for tax incentives. You often hear smokers argue that if not for taxation of tobacco the government would suffer. Strange then that government seeks to ban smoking in public places is it not? The reality is there is a fine line between anarchy and government control, so governments realise they have to accept peoples bad habits or suffer endless whinging protests.



FangsNfeet -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:29:57 PM)

I've been in the medical field for over ten years now. The sick and suffering is what keeps my employed.

So do me a favor and:

1. Encourage speeding / wreckless driving

2. Encourage the comsumption of Pizza, Frys, Ice Cream, and Fast Food

3. Encourage smoking. It helps with nerves and relaxation

4. Encourage people to see doctors about medication. After all, pills are the solution for everything. 

5. All this talk about cureing Cancer, Diabeties, AIDS, and Mental disabilities is a big joke. There are no cures. Just repeating treatments.

More sick customers equal more money.



domiguy -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:35:24 PM)

Many organizations profit off of the misery and suffering of others. No big shakes...It is a simple matter of being employed directly by the evil doer or employed further down the chain by one of the lesser minions.

It is disgusting to profit off of the misery and pain of others. But then again I've been known to hang around funerals and cancer treatment centers....Seems women are just a tad bit more pliable when dealing with loss.



LadyEllen -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:42:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Strange logic that, people are constantly debating here the balance between taxation from tobacco and the cost to the NHS of smoking. Some taxation is in place to persuade people to live the way the government wants them to. Government understands people don't want to follow government ideas but will yield to government ideas for tax incentives. You often hear smokers argue that if not for taxation of tobacco the government would suffer. Strange then that government seeks to ban smoking in public places is it not? The reality is there is a fine line between anarchy and government control, so governments realise they have to accept peoples bad habits or suffer endless whinging protests.


Sorry but this doesnt fly. Meatcleaver has told us already that a study in the Netherlands reported that smokers and the obese cost the health service a whole lot less than the healthy.

Also, based on average consumption and the taxation raised, the government could raise the same amount of tax which they receive on tobacco products through raising income tax by an average of around £600-00 per worker per annum, so they have no need to permit smoking to raise revenues. Their failure to ban it is only explicable by the fact they know it would go on anyway, via smuggled imports.

E



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:48:30 PM)

I kind of implied I thought it was a fallacy I thought.



LadyEllen -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

I kind of implied I thought it was a fallacy I thought.


Apologies, I may have read something totally different to what you wrote! It does happen from time to time!

E



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 1:53:19 PM)

Its ok, I fail to effectively convey my thoughts and ideas from time to time.



LadyEllen -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 2:02:41 PM)

reading it back, I fear any fault is more mine than yours!

E



NeedToUseYou -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 2:04:43 PM)

I've quit a job before because I thought their actions were morally corrupt, they would lie to clients, and workers and promote that activity.

It's quite simple, while I wouldn't have a problem working for a tobacco company, as I don't really see it as morally corrupt. As everyone that is smoking today knows that it will probably kill them. So, it's honest, at least now, maybe not 20 years ago, but now it's pretty obvious that tobacco will kill you, and therefore people are making a decision with the facts. But that doesn't matter, what matters is if YOU think it is morally corrupt, then I don't think you should take it

When I began to realize the company I was working for was a big pile of dog shit in my eyes. I hated going to work, it felt like selling my soul, I performed worse and worse, and just quit eventually. It was that or admit I would do anything for a buck. I'm a lot of things but I won't sell my "soul" for a slightly easier path. I can understand if the decision was based on being able to eat, or dieing or something. Unless you are not going to be able to continue college without that job, then I wouldn't do it. If you can make it without compromising your values, then take that path. Food and shelter trump morality, not much else.



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 2:07:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

reading it back, I fear any fault is more mine than yours!



{{{group hug}}}

:-D



Zensee -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 2:08:36 PM)

Excellent question.

I don't see this as a smoking / non-smoking issue, CL, so I'd disregard the nicotine addled rationalisations being blown around. Ditto the general "oh well someone will suffer somewhere, somehow - so just hold your nose and take the cash", which is lazy and cynical in the extreme. Ditto ditto the "destroy / reform the company from within" fantasy.

It's a whether you will be able to live with yourself issue. If you feel that benefiting directly from an industry you seem to dislike intensely will gnaw at your conscience, I would suggest saying no. If you can take the torment, say yes.

Best of luck in your choice.


Z.




CuriousLord -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 7:28:15 PM)

I think I'm going to just do it.  The stupid ideal of all life carrying an innate value is something I've just questioning too much lately.

This thread really went in a about-me direction more than I wanted, but ah wells.  My appreciation for the responses.



windchymes -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 8:09:18 PM)

A lot of people do things they don't really like doing to get to a better place in life, like like being a stripper or exotic dancer or even a prostitute, porn....if it means putting food on the table, paying the rent, paying for college, etc.

I agree that most smokers are smoking because they enjoy it and will smoke whether you work for the company or not.  Also, it's not a guaranteed death sentence to smoke.  Increased risk, yes, but not a done deal.  They're only taking a chance with their lives by smoking, not signing the death warrant.  Weird to be saying that, since I'm rather anti-smoking myself. But, if I was young and starting out and was presented with the opportunity that you described....I think I'd take it, too. 

Think of it as a stepping stone, get your experience to move on to a better job someday.



Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 8:15:31 PM)

Yes, stand on the backs of the nicotine-addicts, a better future awaits. [:D]



FangsNfeet -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 9:13:28 PM)

What would become of Hospice if we cured Cancer, AIDS, Parkinsens, and Alzhimers?



popeye1250 -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 9:21:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

A lot of people do things they don't really like doing to get to a better place in life, like like being a stripper or exotic dancer or even a prostitute, porn....if it means putting food on the table, paying the rent, paying for college, etc.

I agree that most smokers are smoking because they enjoy it and will smoke whether you work for the company or not.  Also, it's not a guaranteed death sentence to smoke.  Increased risk, yes, but not a done deal.  They're only taking a chance with their lives by smoking, not signing the death warrant.  Weird to be saying that, since I'm rather anti-smoking myself. But, if I was young and starting out and was presented with the opportunity that you described....I think I'd take it, too. 

Think of it as a stepping stone, get your experience to move on to a better job someday.


Yeah, all my mother's uncles and aunts smoked and they all lived to be in their friggin 90's! But, they all walked everyday.
And they didn't smoke those pussy ciggarrettes with "filters" on them either, they smoked "Old Gold's" "Camels", "Pall Malls", "Chesterfields."
If you had the choice of working at Starbucks for $15 an hour or Smith and Wesson for $30 an hour which would it be?



Owner59 -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 9:23:02 PM)

This thread reminds me of this great clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB286VdOkCM

Enjoy.



FangsNfeet -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 9:41:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This thread reminds me of this great clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB286VdOkCM

Enjoy.


I never have been a big fan but this time, Michael Moore did something that made me laugh. I'm surprised that Moore didn't point out how these Tobaco comapines also have investments in Life Insurance, Expensive Quit Smoking Programs, and Cancer Treatments.



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