RE: To profit off suffering… (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 10:27:51 PM)

I was in a similiar situation in college. I got an offer to work with my favorite prof as a RA one summer, One problem, he's doing nuclear weapons simulation coding. Now I was faced with the dilemma. Nuclear weapons simulations are what prevents the US from actually test detonating weapons. Which is an unqualified good thing. OTOH my time in the service has made me a firm opponent of nukes and I don't think I could sleep if I was involved in facilitating the development of WMD's.

So finally I didn't take the job. Wound up working as an intern at IBM which wasn't great but I could sleep at night.




Real0ne -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/16/2008 11:46:20 PM)

I am trying to remember does mo still own krafty foods?  I know there was rumbling they were going to sell it.  In any case while mo is a tobaco supplyer they also own many other companies that are healthy.  fyi




Muttling -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 12:27:41 AM)

The story is always FAR more complex than it is made out to be.   (By the recuiter or the applicant.)


I spent many years chasing th money and I did quite well.    I also learned that a big pay check comes with a big price (or at least it did in my business.)   Think carefully before you jump.




KenDckey -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 4:16:09 AM)

I work under this delima.   I do occupational safety and health.   Companies don't like us becasue we cost them money in protective equipment and procedures that take more time.   This interferes with both production and profits.   However, the line employee benefits thru my effortts.  In your case, you might not be able to have an immediate affect but in the long term you might be able to make a difference.   If one doesn't try, nothing will happen.   I would go for it




FangsNfeet -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 6:48:47 AM)

The majority of us provide a service for cash to people who need something. When they're desperate, how much extra do we wish to charge?

Car Mechanics know you will need car service sooner or later. Parts, labor, and such will cost as much as the mechanic wants to charge.

Doctors don't normally save your life for charity. They have to eat and feel they deserve to drive a porsh.

Drug Comapanies don't want to cure you. They want to see how much you're willing to pay in the attempt to live forever.

Nurseing homes charge how much to room, borad, and care for a loved one? 

Gas Companies know that we all need gas.




windchymes -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 8:01:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yes, stand on the backs of the nicotine-addicts, a better future awaits. [:D]


Big noogie for you! [8D]




Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 10:53:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yes, stand on the backs of the nicotine-addicts, a better future awaits. [:D]


Big noogie for you! [8D]


[:-]




CuriousLord -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 11:02:23 AM)

Don't noogies just make you want to get up and have a smoke?




sblady -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 11:20:42 AM)

To the OP (one day I'll learn how to send my response directly, but maybe later). I've not read all the posts, so some of what I'm writing may be repeats.  Sorry bout that!! I've worked for companies in the past where their business practices were totally unethical (after I'd accepted the position).  Because I had to work, I stayed their until another opportunity (job) presented itself.   It was depressing, I felt worse than a slug, but I had to have a roof over my head and food for my belly.  What made this even more difficult is the fact that I really desire to work for a non-profit organization.  Unfortunately, most non-profit organizations depend on government grants, so this is not a reality as I can't add the fate of having my job based upon the government. I now work for a company which again may appear to benefit from the suffering of others, but I've been with this firm for 8 years.  I know we go above and beyond to try to assist consumers without causing a conflict of interest.  Do I like what I do everyday?  No.  Do I try to be sympathetic and helpful when I can?  Yes.  At times I have to distance myself and say "this is just a file" and this may seem cruel and wrong, but I cannot allow myself to have a nervous breakdown by performing a service that is needed in these harsh economical times.   One thing that has helped.  My position has changed where now I deal strictly with consumers who are involved in fraudulent and unethical practices, so I derive some sort of satisfaction from giving them what they deserve. 
Hopefully you'll make a decision you can live with.  Remember, you can always quit and find another job. 

Take care




Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 11:21:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Don't noogies just make you want to get up and have a smoke?


They make me want to put the noogie-ist *looks at windy* over my knee, CL
 
I gave up Marlboros back in 1986 or '87, and my lungs love me for it. [:D] But, if presented with a great opportunity to work for PM, I might very well do so.




Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 11:24:49 AM)

To directly reply: look at the message being replied to, see the "Reply" button at the upper right corner? Click on it, and wail away.




Feric -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 11:56:27 AM)

The Philip Morris people actually do practice what they preach - 90% of them are smokers! My advice: take the job, live frugally, and store up all the money you can. When you graduate, spend a year or two doing something to work off your "karmic debt". This way you'll feel better about yourself, and laugh later on that Big Tobacco paid for your education. 




Aswad -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 12:19:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I doubt that the money will be worth the loss of self respect.


One of the defining aspects of intelligence is the ability to override short-term desires to work for long-term goals. If time, except for yourself, rewound to the point in time when Hitler was born (not just going backward, which would have all sorts of nasty implications, but simply time being erased back to that point, except for yourself), would you violate your own morals in the short term so as to prevent the Holocaust in the long term? And would you have the meta-moral fortitude to still respect yourself afterwards?

quote:

I am not asking for advice or morality.


Seeing as you got some anyway, I just thought I'd chime in with the point above.

quote:

What I am asking is this:  Has anyone else been in such a position before?  (Not necessarily with an internship, not even necessarily with a job.. but where one's work, while very much legal, would be of questionable morality though profitable.)   What did they do?


I have done morally questionable things for various reasons.

Over the years, it has become exceptionally rare for me to do so out of a lapse in moral integrity, but it has remained the case that I have occasionally had to chose between an immoral course of action and a more immoral course of action. When I had a formal system of morality, this had all been resolved up front by the built-in tiering of the axioms. At all other times, it has been a more ambigous optimization problem. With my recent shift in values, the optimization targets have been less at odds with each other, so there haven't been quite as many dilemmas to deal with.

With regard to profiting in an immoral manner, my morals have always dictated that I uphold my commitment to me and my own. Thus there is a difference between the time before I had someone to provide for, and the time after. Before I had someone to provide for, I left a couple of good jobs for such reasons. After, I have looked about for exits that would allow me to provide, but held on to the job that was offensive in the mean time, as it was the less immoral course of action.

Without a doubt, there is a price a man pays whenever he has to choose between evils, and that price is either the distress of ongoing dissonance, or desensitization with consequent loss of integrity. I have opted for the former along the way, but have also found that dissonance suggests there is a misalignment between the world and our perceptions of it. Unless you know a good way to change the former, it seems a reasonable course of action to change the latter, and to reevaluate any assumptions contingent on it.

Just my 2¢.

Health,
al-Aswad.




sblady -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 1:32:24 PM)

D'oh....guess I need to practice reading from left to right.  Thanks for the info Level.

edited to add the following: [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]
Thank goodness I never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer




Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 2:22:20 PM)

You're welcome.
 
And no one is born knowing about reply buttons, so don't let those other knives gloat. [;)]




windchymes -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 5:18:19 PM)

Ah, those knives aren't all that sharp, either.

Sorry, I had to do it.




Level -> RE: To profit off suffering… (2/17/2008 5:24:24 PM)

Those knives have feelings, ya know. [:D]




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