RE: Me...an Elitist???

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RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/18/2008 5:42:50 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

If i would have to teach someone how to dominate me, it would lose its fun because then I am in charge. So if they had no experience but potential I would want them to be mentored. If they were not naturally Dominant and couldnt be in command, I would not be interested at all.

the reality is that you teach every single Dominant how to top you when you first start being with them though. There's a big difference between experience and experience with that person. All the experience in the world doesn't make Dom x know me and my limits. The fact that they are secure and comfortable with their desire to be in the lifestyle and don't find everything "topping from the bottom" (the new most overused phrase in CM imo) usually comes from experience with THEMSELVES. This was my point.

If they are ok with who they are and their place in the lifestyle, experience doesn't make as much difference as people say it does except when it comes to really edgy play. Then again, there are Doms out there with 20 years experience that have no clue how to use a cane, knife, needle...etc....admitting that and taking the steps one needs to to learn even if it means doing the "undomly" of asking for help...that is more important than experience in my book.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 2/18/2008 5:44:12 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 41

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/18/2008 5:46:14 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

If i would have to teach someone how to dominate me, it would lose its fun because then I am in charge. So if they had no experience but potential I would want them to be mentored. If they were not naturally Dominant and couldnt be in command, I would not be interested at all.

We're not talking about being dominant but merely the skills of flogging, knife play and other playtime activities. I would not trust anyone who thinks they came out of the womb knowing how to wield a bull whip or that they can do knife play merely because they are happen to be dominant without prior instruction.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 42

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/18/2008 5:47:32 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Yeah but Aquatic I know many Doms (even many here in fact) that THINK they know everything and profess many years of experience. What you are talking about is more attitude than years under the belt, wouldn't you agree?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 43

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/18/2008 5:53:39 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Yeah but Aquatic I know many Doms (even many here in fact) that THINK they know everything and profess many years of experience. What you are talking about is more attitude than years under the belt, wouldn't you agree?

I'd probably say I'm more talking about sheer ability to preform tasks, which I really don't think has a lot to with years under the belt or even inclination towards being dom or sub (I can wield a flogger myself with reasonable success - I'm nothing special but I haven't had complaints!). I can think I make five star meals but doesn't mean they are even edible.
Now, if I think I make five star meals because I've been successfully employed as a chef in a five star restaurant for the past ten years...

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 2/18/2008 5:54:09 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 44

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/18/2008 7:36:44 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

If i would have to teach someone how to dominate me, it would lose its fun because then I am in charge. So if they had no experience but potential I would want them to be mentored. If they were not naturally Dominant and couldnt be in command, I would not be interested at all.

the reality is that you teach every single Dominant how to top you when you first start being with them though. There's a big difference between experience and experience with that person. All the experience in the world doesn't make Dom x know me and my limits. The fact that they are secure and comfortable with their desire to be in the lifestyle and don't find everything "topping from the bottom" (the new most overused phrase in CM imo) usually comes from experience with THEMSELVES. This was my point.

If they are ok with who they are and their place in the lifestyle, experience doesn't make as much difference as people say it does except when it comes to really edgy play. Then again, there are Doms out there with 20 years experience that have no clue how to use a cane, knife, needle...etc....admitting that and taking the steps one needs to to learn even if it means doing the "undomly" of asking for help...that is more important than experience in my book.

Well, I would agree with you. Even though I have gravitated to more experienced ones out of saftey reasons. i have spoke of my Dominant and my frustration in the beginning wondering if he was going to step it up a notch. He did and he did it slowly. He really did not have alot of experience. he had the gear and the toys. I thought he was more experienced but I found out later, he really wasnt. He never let on. he approached it with complete confidence and right from the beginning of knowing that this was his path he did educate himself and was self taught on what he needed to do and not do. The rest he approached with the control of a man who learns control and command from their military training. He pre-planned everything in the beginning. Knowing ahead what he was going to do and how.With the ability to communicate and listen to my needs and the physical limitations of my body. So, really, I think these traits that he possessed are more important than years under the belt. I have never felt unsafe or uncared for.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 45

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/19/2008 5:25:49 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

lucious, you are indeed fortunate in finding a new dominant who took the time to educate himself and to plan. The ability to communicate that you mentioned is a valuable resource, but unfortunately, one that is lacking a majority of the time when I have met new dominants. I think those abilities are more of a learned skill, and like any other skill, it gets better with practice.

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 46

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/19/2008 5:42:47 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

lucious, you are indeed fortunate in finding a new dominant who took the time to educate himself and to plan. The ability to communicate that you mentioned is a valuable resource, but unfortunately, one that is lacking a majority of the time when I have met new dominants. I think those abilities are more of a learned skill, and like any other skill, it gets better with practice.

kat

Yes, I am. But I have also had the experience of those saying they have experience, having the gear but not knowing how to approach in a healthy way. I have been caned and wacked on my hip sockets ,by one who should have known to stay away from joints. I have had butt plugs shoved in me, without so much as a kiss or a caress. I have had one that injured my predisposed wrist, calling me a faker. So I have had to learn to choose wisely or suffer the consequenses. I would rather be with a nice gentleman who is more of a top and treats me well in vanilla time, than a high protocol master, that doesnt care about my needs or feelings. At least we have a forum here that we can warn newbies about the dangers lurking and how to avoid them. Crazy, I'm so jaded and I have only acknowleged my submissive nature and started my exploration 3 years ago. hmmm??? people, theres fraud here but stay away from ALT. A few nice people but mostly inexperienced or one night standers thinking sub means easy.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 2/19/2008 5:45:14 PM >

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 47

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/19/2008 7:15:30 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

How does one do that without topping from the bottom, inadvertantly leading/pushing them towards things you like rather than what they might discover they like or sapping the potential Dom/mes authority in your own eyes?

Very carefully. It comes with experience as a sub.

I mentored a Dom for about a year, although he wasn't my Dom. It isn't too much of a stretch to think of mentoring a Dom I'm in a relationship with - I am pretty well aware of my own role (I mean, I'm a sub for a reason - sapping his authority would be counterproductive and counterintuitive for me, to say nothing of unpalatable). A mentor's job is to guide, not to Dominate.

(in reply to WalterRego)

Post #: 48

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 12:02:03 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

To the OP:

You say elitist like it's a bad thing.

juliet

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 49

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 12:53:58 AM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

juliet,

If I did, it was simply because it wasn't said to me in a positive way.

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 50

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 4:55:25 AM

Sundowner

Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline

Experience isn't all it's cracked up to be - I've been into bdsm for some 30 years and sheesh - I'm learning more all the time (thank you CM posters). But experience helps hugely.

I think subs can get a wonderful experience from an experienced Dom, but they can get a wonderful experience from an inexperienced Dom too with whom they have great chemistry. (Assume also he's not mentally challenged).

Of course things might go a bit wrong, but the chemistry should help overcome that, and avoiding the mentally challenged should minimise the risk of any serious damage.

PS For those who prefer the experienced route rather than the personal chemistry route, I'm free most winters

.

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 51

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 9:07:50 AM

SlaveSubtoserve

Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline

Having been inured a couple of times in the past from submitting to an fledgling sadist, one does have to be careful and just not take their word that they know what they are doing!--- live and learn without hopefully permanent damage i guess is a good mantra.

(in reply to xolarkinxo)

Post #: 52

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 4:43:02 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

But that's where references, talking, and asking questions comes in. In my experience, I think that it is a s-type's responsibility to herself to be as informed as she can, and be able to ask intelligent questions about the activities she is interested in. It is an imperative skill to have when negotiating with a D-type about a relationship or scene.

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to SlaveSubtoserve)

Post #: 53

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 4:53:15 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

uh oh someone said the r word......

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 54

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/20/2008 4:57:02 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

relationship relationship relationship (That r word????

)

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 55

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/21/2008 4:41:52 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

But that's where references, talking, and asking questions comes in. In my experience, I think that it is a s-type's responsibility to herself to be as informed as she can, and be able to ask intelligent questions about the activities she is interested in. It is an imperative skill to have when negotiating with a D-type about a relationship or scene.

kat

I have 2 sides as I have to work, raise an UM and protect myself in this world. I rely on the mother lion inside of me to protect sub inside me. I am my own child and I will care for her because I value myself.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 56

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/21/2008 5:50:20 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

But that's where references, talking, and asking questions comes in. In my experience, I think that it is a s-type's responsibility to herself to be as informed as she can, and be able to ask intelligent questions about the activities she is interested in. It is an imperative skill to have when negotiating with a D-type about a relationship or scene.

kat

I have 2 sides as I have to work, raise an UM and protect myself in this world. I rely on the mother lion inside of me to protect sub inside me. I am my own child and I will care for her because I value myself.

I highlighted this because it very clearly describes my own feelings about this whole topic. Thank you luscious.

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 57

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/21/2008 5:55:19 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

But that's where references, talking, and asking questions comes in. In my experience, I think that it is a s-type's responsibility to herself to be as informed as she can, and be able to ask intelligent questions about the activities she is interested in. It is an imperative skill to have when negotiating with a D-type about a relationship or scene.

kat

I have 2 sides as I have to work, raise an UM and protect myself in this world. I rely on the mother lion inside of me to protect sub inside me. I am my own child and I will care for her because I value myself.

I highlighted this because it very clearly describes my own feelings about this whole topic. Thank you luscious.

kat

My pleasure. Clearly when new to realizing that one is submissive, one can be confused as to what that means. I was conflicted, I was easy, I was gullible, I took abusive hits to my self esteem, thinking thats what submission was. Meeting the strong submissives at CM, surely a newbie can gleen that strong and submissive go together. You also need to take care of yourself for the right Master and always make sure that you are being protected by someone and that your needs and best interests are looked out for.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 58

RE: Me...an Elitist??? - 2/23/2008 9:01:28 PM

ShellyD

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

My point to this is...are you willing to scene/play/explore a relationship with someone who was not as experienced as you? If not, why? and if you are willing, has anything happened that put a spotlight on that discrepancy?

I would have a long term relationship with someone that is completely new to sadism. My only criteria is that the person be suitable for a long term relationship. Are they intelligent? Do they have integrity? Are they kind and compassionate? These things are the most important to me, not how many years a person can claim to weild a whip. I would like to engage in heavy play one day... as in single tails. I am of the opinion that it is not experience in the lifestyle that matters, it is the willingness to learn, the ability to read, go to conferences to understand what a person wants to do that makes a good sadist... not how many years someone claims to have done something. I tend to only be interested in men that endeavor to be good at whatever they try.

I have left this intact as it encompasses what I was about to say. I have recently met and begun a relationship with a man that is new to all that this lifestyle is. He is also a man who is one who studies and discusses and has a desire to practice WIITWD in a safe manner. Prior to meeting him though, I only ever considered experienced dominants as I did not feel able to 'teach' I have now learned that we can learn together.

Edited to add; my prior experience was 5 years with a sadistic heavy playing Master/slave relationship. I discovered that was not a healthy way for me and tossed up leaving the lifestyle. I did want someone who was into the pain and sensation side as well as intermittant power interactions, I feel I have found what I was looking for....as to the learning together, communication has been enlightening, in trying to define and describe certain parts of both techniques and my responses I have learnt more about myself.

< Message edited by ShellyD -- 2/23/2008 9:15:46 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 59

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