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RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 6:59:04 AM

Viridana

Posts: 754
Status: offline

I've noticed once too often since I started practicing bdsm, that with some people, in some circles there seems to be a "bdsm-contest" of who's more subby. Subs looking at slaves and saying that they don't have a mind of their own, slaves looking at subs saying that they lack devotion.

For me... a masochistic bottom who doesn't participate in d/s.... I'm regarded a scum by both sides.

It's weird

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 21

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 7:12:00 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

If I had to squeeze into a labelled box I guess it would be 'submissive pet that is owned'.Translation = I'm just me.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to Viridana)

Post #: 22

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 7:13:00 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

You write very well, but I have to say your essay opens up with an assumption that I do not believe is true from my own point of view... not all submissives or slaves struggle to find out what we are. Not all of us have the belief that one category or word is intrinsically better. I am who I am, nothing more or less. Our relationship is what it is. I am who he molds me to be. We do not really care about the labels.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to FemmeSensei)

Post #: 23

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 7:17:56 AM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I believe the key difference is that a submissive exercises the right to choose to submit whenever asked, forced, coerced, or in a situation to do so. A slave makes one choice in the beginning of the relationship with his or her owner and that choice carries from that point forward.

Until the slave chooses to leave, which seems to be more common than choosing to stay - so there are at least two choices made.

It's funny to me that the common idea of slave/sub definition is based on lack of choices. I don't see it that way.

(in reply to FemmeSensei)

Post #: 24

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 7:20:12 AM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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I really really hate this question that, no matter how wordily re-expressed, seems to pop up every other week on these forums.

First I will give you my answer. I am both. I am by very nature a woman who is submissive, essentially. That nature has nothing to do with my owner, per se. It is an innate quality which is as much a part of the internal make-up of of Jen, just as is my sense of humor, sense of integrity, justice, nurturing, stubbornness, irrational need to feed people until they burst (hehe)...etc etc. Who I am as an individual is a complex myriad of factors and my being submissive is just one part 'soup'... it is no greater or less important than any other piece of my 'people puzzle'.

Currently, I am owned. The word slavery denotes ownership and as I have willingly surrendered my rights of complete freedom to another, I am a consensual slave. How he chooses to utilize, maximize and enjoy that surrender is his right and prerogative. Slavery requires more than one person. It is (in the case of consensual lifestyles) a relationship choice, not a matter of identity. Within the context of my slavery, I am still Jen, submissive, humorous (subjective), nurturing, stubborn, constantly feeding, etc (see above). The ‘slave’ tag simply acknowledges that I have surrendered (rather than having had it forcibly taken from me as in traditional slavery ‘relationships’) my rights and freedoms to another. He now has the choice to manipulate that which he desires from me, even regarding how much 'freedom' I am allowed to practice, in order to best meet his needs and maximize the pleasure he takes from me and this relationship. (That balance and manipulation is as fluid and ever evolving as we as individuals are, I have found.)

Secondly, I will dip into the reason why I hate this question. I am sure that sometimes it is posed innocently enough, but essentially, it is the sort of probing that is looking for a way to categorize and eventually elevate one type over another. Many will say that there is no real malice in this line of inquiry but I vehemently disagree.

Whether consciously or subconsciously, it seems we always need or desire for some sort of caste system by which to rise above others, or by which to recognize speedily and definitively the 'value' of others (and/or perhaps self).

There is no hierarchy of self. This is a question about self....or should be.

< Message edited by puella -- 2/21/2008 7:24:16 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to FemmeSensei)

Post #: 25

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 7:59:28 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I really really hate this question that, no matter how wordily re-expressed, seems to pop up every other week on these forums.

First I will give you my answer. I am both. I am by very nature a woman who is submissive, essentially. That nature has nothing to do with my owner, per se. It is an innate quality which is as much a part of the internal make-up of of Jen, just as is my sense of humor, sense of integrity, justice, nurturing, stubbornness, irrational need to feed people until they burst (hehe)...etc etc. Who I am as an individual is a complex myriad of factors and my being submissive is just one part 'soup'... it is no greater or less important than any other piece of my 'people puzzle'.

Currently, I am owned. The word slavery denotes ownership and as I have willingly surrendered my rights of complete freedom to another, I am a consensual slave. How he chooses to utilize, maximize and enjoy that surrender is his right and prerogative. Slavery requires more than one person. It is (in the case of consensual lifestyles) a relationship choice, not a matter of identity. Within the context of my slavery, I am still Jen, submissive, humorous (subjective), nurturing, stubborn, constantly feeding, etc (see above). The ‘slave’ tag simply acknowledges that I have surrendered (rather than having had it forcibly taken from me as in traditional slavery ‘relationships’) my rights and freedoms to another. He now has the choice to manipulate that which he desires from me, even regarding how much 'freedom' I am allowed to practice, in order to best meet his needs and maximize the pleasure he takes from me and this relationship. (That balance and manipulation is as fluid and ever evolving as we as individuals are, I have found.)

wow...puella, you have expressed so eloquently here many of my own ideas and feelings on this subject, now i don't feel quite so odd. :) the submissive v. slave argument has always rather confused and irritated me, the main reason for that being the implied assumption that one cannot be both. imo, submissive is a personality trait, simply the way one naturally expresses themselves and functions in the world, and has nothing to do really with a relationship dynamic. while slave is a status, something one can become, like any other status in life...teacher, lawyer, doctor, etc. i am a submissive person who is owned, making me a slave.

the hierarchy many seem to feel within all of these labels (bottom, submissive, slave) is another unfortunate thing. a slave is no better, more devoted, more "subbier" than a (happily) unowned submissive, and a submissive no better than a bottom. the fact is simply that we are all different, in many cases VERY different, and we are not necessarily able to relate to one another as well as some may think. the problem i think stems partially from the fact that we are all considered to be under this one big umbrella of BDSM, implying we share a way of life, point of view, state of being, etc., when the reality is that oftentimes we do not. maybe if we give up this guise of oneness we can start accepting and appreciating one another for who and what we really are, and perhaps there can be a lot more understanding and respect all the way round.

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 26

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 8:13:31 AM

givingin

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/19/2006
Status: offline

I really think Puella said it very well.

I consider myself submissive at times, other times I prefer complete control, both in life and in relationships. I am also a slave because I have given myself over to another by choice. The defines of my slavery are probably different than say, daddysprop(not a bash, an observation). While control is given over, I am allowed tons of freedom in my choices and actions. It's not so much who I was born to be, as who I was born to be with him. He does have eventual control over things and the final answer. Just an example, I would like to be shared with another dominant (a fantasy I have of being shared)..he doesn't want to share, he is selfish having me as his and honestly loves me too much to see me with someone else (other than women, and then he doesn't watch). So, I would never go against his ultimate wishes and when he does put his foot down, I take it very seriously and do what he requests.

It all sounds complicated, but in reality (our reality) it is very simple and works fine for us.

_____________________________

"He who laughs last didn't get it." HG

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 27

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 10:01:47 AM

ryssa

Posts: 501
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline

I have a submissive personality, but I believe only a particular type of man could determine me slave. As it was stated elsewhere on these CM forums, it is the man that defines what his girl is in his life. It is his will (or lack there of) that determines if he is capable of putting her on her knees and holding her there and to what degree of submission she will serve him with. Unfortunately, IMO, the type of man whose will is strong enough to hold one in “slavery”, is rare. Again, this is just my opinion :)

ryssa

< Message edited by ryssa -- 2/21/2008 10:02:34 AM >

(in reply to givingin)

Post #: 28

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 10:11:43 AM

solvr70

Posts: 425
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

does being a bottom at present, but one day hoping to be a submissive to the right Woman make sense as an alternative answer?

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(in reply to FemmeSensei)

Post #: 29

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 10:18:14 AM

sweetwenchie

Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

if i have to be labeled, i prefer Daddy's little whore thank you

now would that make me submissive, slave, or none of the above? Hate trying to fit into some pre defined box, as so many others have said... i'm me.

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to solvr70)

Post #: 30

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 10:57:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if every submissive-wired (or even switch-wired) individual heard the question at one point or another inquiring whether they are a slave or a submissive, especially if you are looking for a relationship on whatever level that meets your needs...

actually, what He asked was..."Are you submissive, or do you get off fantasizing about being submissive?"

this slave's answer was, "both."

(in reply to FemmeSensei)

Post #: 31

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 3:22:43 PM

petpete

Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

In fantasy all subs would wish to be slaves.. Living has more responsibilities then just bd&sm.... i don't think there is a perfect D out there of which i could totally count on taking care of my natural life nor do i expect that. In order to go on in life submissives are people to and they need to use there heads and see where they are lead and who they are lead by.. Natural beauty is not enough to make any submissive feel secure about there lifes outcome.. There has been a number of times i had to step in as i witnessed disturbing facts in my ex Mistress about where Her own life was leading and i still practically doing that even as W/we parted. i wish i never had to do so as it is quite a turn off to become assertive but when it concerns well being and life's living issues i think a submissive will need to alert the person who he cares for.

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Max: And loving it!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 3:31:13 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Fox and Angel are both my slaves. They choose to be with me and to follow me. They would do the same if they were submissives. There are many eloquently written things on this forum, all pointing to essentially the same thing. There is no one size fits all defenition of a slave.
Angel is a slave. He does not obey 24/7, he does not attend to me at my whim, he has priorities above me (school and work) and he makes decisions when he does and doesnt wish to play. He is still a slave.
Fox is a slave. He does housework without question. He decides when he would like to visit. He helps with the shopping, cooking, does most of the cleaning and helps with the driving when we go out. He never says no to playtime, although he knows he has that right. He and Angel are polar opposites in attitude and behavior. He is still a slave.

The person defines the role, the role does not define the person.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to petpete)

Post #: 33

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 3:33:13 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

In fantasy all subs would wish to be slaves.

They would not. I find the idea of people owning people to be unappealing, but different strokes ...

(in reply to petpete)

Post #: 34

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 4:40:25 PM

Paulsgirl

Posts: 249
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............

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Formerly Prinsexx

~There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.~
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(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 35

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 4:55:08 PM

Redoubt

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline

A label we assign to something or someone is not the end of understanding them, just an attempt at a beginning.

(in reply to Paulsgirl)

Post #: 36

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 5:04:19 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............

So, would that make me a GenCowDomarian (Gentleman Cowboy Dom Barbarian) ?

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to Paulsgirl)

Post #: 37

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 5:17:56 PM

flowerinyourhand

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline

I am what Master tells me I am

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in service to HIM ever minute of every day

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 38

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 8:03:10 PM

christine1

Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline

hard to answer this question....there are no clear cut definitions for slave or submissive and i don't fit either one exclusively...

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He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to flowerinyourhand)

Post #: 39

RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? - 2/21/2008 8:06:15 PM

HerLord

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline

I think we have a winner! A slub for me plz... oh wait hangon... slut... yup, sub... yup, slave... yup. Hey wait, I do have one of those...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to Paulsgirl)

Post #: 40

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