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RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 10:31:17 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: newbee4u

and that comment was for Sir hedonic....screw the poly life ...not worth the effort

So you're bashing someone by name and they aren't even here to defend themself? Really? Nice.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to newbee4u)

Post #: 21

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 11:05:46 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

the samurai have a saying..."today is a good day to die" what it means is embrace the worst possible outcome...accept it...and then throw yourself in to your life fearlessly and with abandon.

that would be my advice.

you will get hurt, love hurts, , there will be fights , tears, and growth and one of you will eventually die......dont hold back...because not being loved and not loving hurts just as much just in differnt ways.

I just wanted to echo how beautifully written and for me personally accurate in terms of fighting this struggle.

Like others have written, each time I have entered into a power exchange relationship there is always that fighting of scared feelings that has made me fight myself and beat myself up internally. In the end though I always realize it is my best fit otherwise I would not be drawn to it so powerfully. Then for me it simply becomes like anything else in my life either I commit fully or I should not commit at all.

Many of us get hurt and often hurt badly when powerful relationships implode. In the end though my motivation is often I would be terribly regretful if I did not give everything I have to try then to be over protective and wonder what might have been. We want and expect our other to give fully of themselves so I push myself over that cliff and hope I meet them halfway.

< Message edited by toservez -- 2/22/2008 11:06:14 AM >

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 22

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 12:56:57 PM

petpete

Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

Dear colourdin.. this is not a new article that you have made available for debate. i myself had published the same one quite a few months ago. It trust that we really need.. i unfortunetly was in the position to also hear the critisizm from some of the local dommes due to the fact that i was outspoken about some issues that there publish on there journals. They also created a witch hunt against me making me feel that i wasn't real. i will always be cynical and debate anyone that i feel is publishing miss leading information no matter who they think they are, cause simply submissives are not doormats and that Dominants have an obligation to treat them as equal members of this society unless they belong to someone and they are under instructions to become submissive. A submissive is a normal functional human until there is a suitable Dominant that has the ability and the want to to bring out and cultivate those tendencies that we keep inside us and very much need to bring into effect. But until that happens we can be and behave just as any other living human on this planet. There should be no perception of any dominant that they can walk all over us just because our label reads "submissive or slave"

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!

(in reply to newbee4u)

Post #: 23

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 12:59:30 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

How long have you been together. Because I didn't go from totally nonsubmissive to totally his. It took years to deepen to this level. If he's asking for it without having earned it, then it's his problem. Unfortunately most people don't realize this, they just continue on a quest for instant gratification.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to newbee4u)

Post #: 24

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 2:14:31 PM

greeneyedreamer

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

I know what you are feeling too. I fought it and still are having a problem at times. I am learning and have a dom who knows what I learn quickly mentally, i can't always process emotionally. And being submissive, i have said yes only to think about things and then say no. He is very sweet and understands and now one of the few commands he gives me is to be honest with him if something feels bad to me or I don't like it. And example is names. What is acceptable to me to be called. I don't like humilation or degrading names. He asked ME what i would like him to call me and I came up with it. He loved it and we are happy with it. I could have never done this without his guidance. and acceptance of me learning.

I am one lucky submissive...

(in reply to newbee4u)

Post #: 25

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 2:41:59 PM

Sundowner

Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline

In here we have to generalise (and of course your own situation is personal to you). I think this is not just a "submissive" thing. We can all find commitment scary - whatever the relationship and whatever the commitment aspect.

Giving yourself - as a submissive thing - is similar to giving yourself to a new lover; moving from pure physical fun to a deeper relationship.

And I think crouchingtigress and StormSlave have it right - carpe diem.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 26

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 4:37:21 PM

Loveisallyouneed

Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

Out of the blue:

Just wanted to thank you for this thread.

It is quite enlightening to see so many having similar problems.

(in reply to Sundowner)

Post #: 27

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 6:15:59 PM

petpete

Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

.
i feel that even when we can become highly aroused and act out our fantasies to be at our most submissive state when it comes to the relationship part things can get very complicated... i think its the relationship and committing part along with its insecurities that makes us kick back and become so volatile. It can be a very tormenting experience when we really want to serve someone on the one hand but fight against it cause of insecurities and feeling somewhat out of place due to the lack of understanding or communication break down along with maybe some other facts that a submissive may find uncomfortable to deal with like is it them they are after?? or something else that comes with them?? It is hard for the sub to explain to there superior knowing that it should be obvious for them to know instead of the submissive having to point them out.

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)

Post #: 28

RE: Fighting submission - 2/22/2008 8:08:37 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: newbee4u

and that comment was for Sir hedonic....screw the poly life ...not worth the effort

yes....poly is HARD, but you have to weigh the pros and cons to see if it worth the effort to you.....for some of us it is.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to newbee4u)

Post #: 29

RE: Fighting submission - 2/23/2008 4:24:02 AM

Sylphid

Posts: 7
Joined: 2/16/2008
Status: offline

I've been in the same situation (your using the word self-preservation triggered the correlation in me). I think it's more than normal to have a minimum of sense of self-preservation (it's part of the human instinct). I think in your case the best thing is giving yourself time to get more and more acquainted with him, with your submission etc, no need to stress yourself out with this. And your dom should be trying not to push you harder than that, I think it might be even more detrimental to your letting go.
Even though thinking about my same experience I realise how sometimes doms telling you 'You fight against me' are instead aware it's them not to be good enough at pulling down your defences.

Good luck
s.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 30

RE: Fighting submission - 2/23/2008 7:37:50 AM

Loveisallyouneed

Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

What can a master do?

When the one he loves refuses to talk, refuses to interact, is locked in panic, is not listening to him, is not listening to the love in her heart, but is only listening to the fear and grasping at whatever straws she can to come up with a justification for her behaviour?

When this behaviour repeats and leads to a degradation of the relationship as she runs further and further away?

And only rarely is she able to admit she is doing this, an admission that does not seem to change her behaviour in any way?

It has reached a point where I must let go, for anything else is contrary to her wishes as expressed through her behaviour.

What can a master do, when a woman has more faith in fear than love?

(in reply to Sylphid)

Post #: 31

RE: Fighting submission - 2/23/2008 8:10:11 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Most fight in the beginning. <snip>

whether you think you really are fighting or resisting, or are you just using good sense

Mm hm. That sums up everything I wanted to say.

(LA's post snipped not for content but rather for length - I hate scrolling through things I've read already only to get to a couple of lines of new post.)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: Fighting submission - 2/24/2008 10:20:02 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

I just wanted to say thanks for most of the comments that have been meade in regards to my initial thread. Most people read it as it was meant to be read, of course some didnt, nothing in my post was about his ability in any way, I wouldnt get myself into this situation over just anyone, and I wouldnt be as concerned It is totally my own issues and not his and I am in a contemplative position at the moment trying to make sure that the descisions I am making are both the right thing to do for me and for the couple that I am moving in with. I tend to find that looking at other peoples experiances of the same thing help me to put my own thoughts into perspective and get a bit of distance that normally one doesnt have with their own emotions which is why I do love this site so much. I have genuienly been comfortated by a lot of these responses because now I see it as a pretty common reaction whereas before how was I to know if it was usual or anything. Questioning myself is one of my biggest faults and I have been consciously trying to be more rational in my ideas. So again thank you all.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 33

RE: Fighting submission - 2/25/2008 4:31:28 AM

faithfulfemme

Posts: 113
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petpete

...... A submissive is a normal functional human until there is a suitable Dominant that has the ability and the want to to bring out and cultivate those tendencies that we keep inside us and very much need to bring into effect.......

Very powerful words.....and ones i haven't heard (read) before.

So, might the responsibility rest on the dominant to bring forth our submission? If so, and going on this premise, might this "resistance of submission" come about because we are getting too far ahead of what is asked of us?  Or because we are behind?

Would either of these situations mean that we have not understood, when at the point of resistance, what and how much our dominant is trying to elicit from us?

i have a feeling that i might not be posing these questions in an comprehensible manner because for me this is a new aspect of the power exchange.

However, to go on, when a submissive and a domimant meet and the two of them suit each other, for lack of a better term, does it then become the job of the dominant to be aware of and judge the speed needed to bring the submissive's submission into full bloom?

i do understand that each dominant has their own way, and that perhaps this is just another one of the miriad methods that could be used by any dominant for any submissive.  i also understand that if the above method is valid, it is not etched in stone and most likely won't be used by every dominant.

Maybe i just answered my own question.........or not.......gawd, i luv these threads.

_____________________________

Trust is neither wishing nor hoping; it is a deep sense of honor in another.

(in reply to petpete)

Post #: 34

RE: Fighting submission - 2/25/2008 6:17:38 AM

SayaNereida

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I was having a conversation with Sir yesterday about various things and he said that he thinks i run away from submission, I he said that he believes I am submissive by nature but that i fight it.

What specifically is it that you do that he sees as 'running from it'? And, What do you feel you do to 'fight it'?

If you were ready, physically, mentally, emotionally, you would; so rather than see it as running from or fighting against, why not see it as preparing to? When the time is right, and your both ready, it will be.

Saya

_____________________________

Anais Nin: Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. ...

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 35

RE: Fighting submission - 2/25/2008 6:29:27 AM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

I am struggling with this right now. I have always identified myself as a submissive masochist, but when in reality, I have been a bottom almost exclusively during my six years in htis lifestyle. Then I met him. He told me when we first met that I would submit when I met the man who made me feel like I had no choice but to submit. His energy makes me want to submit to him, serve him, and to please him. And that SCARES me something fierce!

So yes, I am fighting my submission, not from a lack of desire to submit to him, but more of a need for self-preservation. I wonder how many other submissives have felt the same way.

Really looking for answers LOL
kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to SayaNereida)

Post #: 36

RE: Fighting submission - 2/26/2008 2:53:12 AM

ThistleDown

Posts: 51
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline

It's a matter of wanting it but being scared at the same time. Some of that fear is about self-preservation (thanks to the OP for that realization) and some of it I'm still figuring out. I'm not sure if I'm ready for the next step but I'm never sure and it's always a step of faith (which is not one of my strong points -having faith). I'm used to having to watch myself and NOT submit to others for my own good and it's a difficult thing to break such habits which are so important in other areas of your life; it's a difficult thing to believe that it's safe to submit to the Dom you're with, even if you know intellectually that it's safe.

I'm struggling with this a lot. I crave it, I want nothing more than to submit as fully as I can to my Master but it's like Vield said. It's like standing on an edge, looking down at a slope and not being sure where the end is or if there is an end, what’s at the end or if I can ever get back should I want to. I think it is especially difficult for me, never having been in a D/s relationship before and having some bad experiences as well. (I could be wrong though, perhaps it never gets easier even after you've had experience submitting to a Dom before).

In any case, I agree with a lot of what's being said here and I want to thank the OP for this thread, it's helped me pinpoint my most recent struggle: explaining my fear to my master even while claiming to trust him. I think it's a balance of fear and trust which will hopefully be tipped more and more towards trust.

Like sky diving, (in the hypothetical situation that my Master knew anything about sky diving) I would trust my Master not to screw up my parachute but it would still be scary to jump out of the plane with him. That's kind of where I'm at right now.
~puppy

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 37

RE: Fighting submission - 2/26/2008 4:08:32 AM

alwaysuna

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

If submissives didn't "fight it" their whole lives they would be groveling around with some loser abusive, or dead in a ditch somewhere. I at least know myself well enough to avoid situations I have trouble controlling my submission in, and if I am asked to submit and I am fighting it I will be asked the question "Why? Why are you behaving like this?" Which gives me the opportunity to examine what is behind my resistance in a particular instance.

You had a whole lifetime before you met your D. Surely you have all SORTS of reasons for NOT doing things that you aren't even aware of.

(in reply to ThistleDown)

Post #: 38

RE: Fighting submission - 2/26/2008 5:22:03 AM

ruthiexxxx

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

When i first started out i did not want to face the fact i was submissive. I look back now and think why did i waste so much time fighting it. It will take some time and you are right trust. I think everyone has been hurt at one time, i was. You have to trust enough to open yourself up to your Master and trust he will not hurt you. I know it will be hard but if you want the joys of submission you will have to risk to gain even more. I wish you well.

god, that's my life story....and i couldnt agree more. but would still add the proviso that repect for hard limits and carefully considered setting out of parameters is what can make deep submission possible. fukit i wanna have fun...not commit mental suicide!
Matt's littleone

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 39

RE: Fighting submission - 2/26/2008 5:23:33 AM

ruthiexxxx

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/29/2008
Status: offline

dont know how that got muddled!

(in reply to ruthiexxxx)

Post #: 40

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