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I guess a girl can dream.

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ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

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Nope, we'll always have labels. Make them more meaningful outside of their umbrella-like nature...that's another thing.

I guess I'm confused.  Aren't you suggesting making a bigger umbrella (not like that's a bad idea, IMO)?  The profiles have always existed.

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But then again, responding to the label at the top of a thread, without reading even the initial post, and responding with a comment about the futility of labels, is a pretty good case in point of the

sameoldboringcrapswirlingdownarathole

that this thread was intended to offer a possible alternative to.

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Here is something worth noting about (submissives, dominants, relationships, etc) in a very general way. People seem to fall into 2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever you find) general categories when considered in terms of this issue

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ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

To my eyes, that is exactly what happens over and over and over again.  The problem is, IMO, people don't really fall into categories, especially when some are talking about a past time, some are talking cyber or fantasy, some are talking r/l scene stuff, some are talking about dating, some are talking about commited relationships, etc. (with room for overlap).

One thing I do see:  This problem of constantly going around in circles over definition does not seem to exist to the same degree in the male submissives, slaves, etc., categories; in the Master, Dom , etc., categories; or in the Domme, Mistress, etc., cateogories.  I wonder why it such a huge issue where female submissives, slaves, etc., are concerned.  I do believe that it is best to let people define themselves for themselves.  If I try to define you, Noah, I would certainly be wrong.  So if I call myself a submissive, who decides what I mean by that?  I can say that I'm a mom, a wife, a stripper, dog washer, a heterosexual, and no one assumes anything more than the minimal:

She has given birth
She is married,
She takes off her clothes
She washes dogs
She is not homosexual

How silly would it be to try to detect different levels, complete with labels, of marriedness or stripperness or homosexuality?  I say that knowing full well that some sociologist somewhere probably attempted it. 

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ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Ok, I'll give it a try.

From another thread:

"You have all the rights afforded to you by the government of this broad brown land of ours; you simply choose to wave those rights in order to fulfil your sexual fetish or emotional need."

That's one of the most thought provoking comments on slavery (the kind some of us practice here) I've come accross.  When I read it, I was like, wow, that's exactly what I've done-- symbolically trashed a couple hundred years of political struggle because it gets me off.  I mean, jeeze, what kind of a person does something like that? 

It was just one of those things that kind of stunned me when I read it.  Better than the usual slave vs. sub fare.

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ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

When I read it, I was like, wow, that's exactly what I've done-- symbolically trashed a couple hundred years of political struggle because it gets me off.  I mean, jeeze, what kind of a person does something like that? 

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ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Ok, I'll give it a try.

From another thread:

"You have all the rights afforded to you by the government of this broad brown land of ours; you simply choose to wave those rights in order to fulfil your sexual fetish or emotional need."

That's one of the most thought provoking comments on slavery (the kind some of us practice here) I've come accross.  When I read it, I was like, wow, that's exactly what I've done-- symbolically trashed a couple hundred years of political struggle because it gets me off.  I mean, jeeze, what kind of a person does something like that? 

It was just one of those things that kind of stunned me when I read it.  Better than the usual slave vs. sub fare.

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ORIGINAL: Noah

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ORIGINAL: HerLord

An End? It seems to me, that one of the reasons there is no "end", is that, if it were to end, what the hell would we all fight about any way? It is human nature to... oppose? Well, let me try another route...

We as people, spend entirely too much time trying to be right, as My Love would say. The importance of being right in ones own mind conjers many varied emotions. One of them being a necessary inclination to debate/conflict/argue. For a limited few, it is more important to learn, but in large these debates about glossary terms and title definitions go on forever because, well, I gotta be right. (I in the collective meaning) Until people agree to title other people as "people," there can be no end.

Other "Titles" "labels"
bitch
single mom
slut
workaholic
nigger
nerd
freak
geek
dog lover
people person
divorcee
loud mouth
braniac
boss
picker
loader
driver
superintendant

As you can see, labels are everywhere. Some are offensive in nature, some less so, such as widow/er. The "label"ing of people is always going to continue. It's as though what ever some one else calls another is all that defines them. Labels, titles, and formal designations are all intended to sum up a whole person into one neat little tidy uniform of interpretation that will not and cannot allow individualism on any level. The only exemption is;

I AM an asshole.

Another thing I think would be a really cool idea would be if people would read at least the initial post before responding to a thread.

But then again, responding to the label at the top of a thread, without reading even the initial post, and responding with a comment about the futility of labels, is a pretty good case in point of the

 sameoldboringcrapswirlingdownarathole

that this thread was intended to offer a possible alternative to.

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ORIGINAL: HerLord

 

Noah...so to start with, instead of reading what's posted, you'd rather insult the poster.  Telling us to give our thoughts, then telling us that what we posted isn't the proper thought...??  Sure, that makes perfect sense.

I did read your rather rambling and disjointed post, and took what I could manage to take from it. 

My assertion is that the motivation behind the label is completely irrelevant, as are the labels themselves.  The only labels that should apply are the labels we put on ourselves, should we choose to do so.  People will apply the labels to whomever they choose, for motivations that are usually neither uplifting or beneficial to any of the parties. 

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So, what the hell difference does any of your egotistical posturing and intellectual masturbation going to make?

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 Ask not what your observation  can do to get everyone in BDSM to agree on the meaning of some term. Ask ... well ... what else it can do.       

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Part of the confusion, I think comes from the fact that for many of us, (not all) are more committed to this type of relationship because it fulfills us, and satisfies us like no vanilla relationship would. Because we value it more, we work harder at it. Then we say “Wow, these D/s relationships are…” Harder, deeper, etc. The reality is that we choose to work harder, communicate better, develop more trust.

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ORIGINAL: Noah

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

You mean people actually wording what they say as their opinions and drawn from their experiences instead of making proclamation as though they were the Divine?!

That's just crazy, Noah.

At least in my opinion and experience...

And maybe even doing so without derisive sarcasm, if that wouldn't be too much to ask.

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ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

catchy title...almost had me.

if you really want an end to the debate, two words: active listening....not only would it solve the sub/slave conundrum and every other petty pedantic platitude but it could also be very effective in negotiating with warring country's, solving food and housing shortages and and creating a framework for the whole world to ....*gasp*...love one another.

but then if you really wanted an end to the debate i doubt you would have written this post.

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ORIGINAL: catize

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 Ask not what your observation  can do to get everyone in BDSM to agree on the meaning of some term. Ask ... well ... what else it can do.       

What it has done for me is make me wonder about myself.  I know what I have accomplished.  Given the right circumstances would I be capable of more than I can imagine?  The debate rages in my own thoughts and the water remains muddy. 
I do envy those who have found their own certainty.