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Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 9:42:13 AM

TethersEnd

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Although this question appears to be aimed at Submissives, I realized that this also effects Dominants, so I've chosen to post it here in the General section.

pardon if I have misplaced it.

I'm trying to clarify something for myself and would love to hear others thoughts on the subject of loyalty.
I wont go so far as to say ownership, although that word can have similar connotations.
I have gotten the impression as I read here that many submissives who are loyal to one have discussed the issue,
the answer clear between the parties involved. Although I believe a trait of many submissives is to give their
loyalty, or feel owned out of an interpersonal chemistry without discussion.

Your thoughts please.

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished.
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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 9:46:35 AM

CalifChick

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I'm trying to find the issue or question. Are you asking how and why loyalty is given? I'm thinking that's kind of like asking why a person falls in love with one person and not someone else (you can say chemistry of course, but what exactly is the chemistry in it??).

I gave my loyalty without discussion and without realizing I had done it until some time later. It developed in the getting-to-know-you phase. It was a subtle shift in my thought processes and actions, and I cannot even pinpoint exactly when it happened.

Cali

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 9:54:13 AM

TethersEnd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I'm trying to find the issue or question. Are you asking how and why loyalty is given? I'm thinking that's kind of like asking why a person falls in love with one person and not someone else (you can say chemistry of course, but what exactly is the chemistry in it??).

I gave my loyalty without discussion and without realizing I had done it until some time later. It developed in the getting-to-know-you phase. It was a subtle shift in my thought processes and actions, and I cannot even pinpoint exactly when it happened.

Cali

That is just it Cali, I feel we often give our loyality blindly.
Being blind is not aware.
Being aware is necessary to be responsible for our actions.

`edited to add the above is only my opinion.

< Message edited by TethersEnd -- 2/23/2008 9:55:14 AM >

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished.
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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 9:58:18 AM

Justme696

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loyalty...one day you meet some one you like very much....you give a certain level of loyalty then..because you want him/her..then if you become partners...it grows...and you want te be more and more loyal.
But it takes time.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 9:58:51 AM

LadyHathor

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I think, loyalty, like love starts out as intent. Time goes by, growth occurs and you look at the other and think, wow I really do love them or I really am loyal to them--the reverse also can and does occur--I also do not believe that love and loyalty are mutually inclusive.

Along those lines I believe for any relationship to work, loyalty should be both a Dominant and submissive characteristic.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 10:03:45 AM

juliaoceania

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I give my loyalty to people I care for. I do not give my loyalty "blindly". I consider loyalty to my friends, family, and my lover to be part of who I am. I do not think of it as something related to my submissiveness, it is not about being "owned" for me.

I do not understand what you mean by awareness as a part of responsibility for our actions as is related to loyalty. If you find someone was not worth your loyalty you move on. It has nothing to do with responsibility to me, unless a sense of loyalty to someone caused a person to do things they later feel shame for because they were more true to that person than they were to themselves. I am most loyal to myself, my loyalty to myself supercedes all other loyalties. I would even argue that if a person cannot be loyal and true to themselves they cannot be true to anyone else....

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 10:13:32 AM

TethersEnd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I give my loyalty to people I care for. I do not give my loyalty "blindly". I consider loyalty to my friends, family, and my lover to be part of who I am. I do not think of it as something related to my submissiveness, it is not about being "owned" for me.

I do not understand what you mean by awareness as a part of responsibility for our actions as is related to loyalty. If you find someone was not worth your loyalty you move on. It has nothing to do with responsibility to me, unless a sense of loyalty to someone caused a person to do things they later feel shame for because they were more true to that person than they were to themselves. I am most loyal to myself, my loyalty to myself supercedes all other loyalties. I would even argue that if a person cannot be loyal and true to themselves they cannot be true to anyone else....

Awe Julia, I'm not here to argue... smile
Most of the time I find myself on the same page as you are.
Your words here I believe hold a clue to what I was aiming at.
It may not be a sense of shame, but something comes along to open our eyes and question said loyality.
I suppose it's simply a step to discussion, possibly not even about the loyality in question.
A part of a process it seems rather then a level of truth to self, a realization of self.

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished.
~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 10:28:38 AM

CalifChick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TethersEnd

That is just it Cali, I feel we often give our loyality blindly. Being blind is not aware. Being aware is necessary to be responsible for our actions.

Okay, how about if I say it was not a conscious decision? Or even a discussion? I did not one day say, "I'm liking this, what we have, I'm going to be loyal to you, what do you think?". Instead I found that while I was opening myself to him, I was simultaneously closing myself to others. For instance, I was telling him of all contact with others, but not telling the others the same (meaning, I would tell him that Joe and Bill contacted me and they said this and that, but I would not tell Joe about Bill or Bill about Joe).

So it was not a conscious decision, but something that seemed to fall into place. I'm still pretty sure that I'm responsible for my actions.

Cali

_____________________________

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 10:30:52 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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loyalty like trust and respect has to be earned however i do expect loyalty in return. i just cannot give to it someone who doesn't want to give it to me.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:06:15 AM

celticlord2112

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Loyalty is given, never asked for. When it is discussed, it is no longer loyalty.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:10:23 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Loyalty is given, never asked for. When it is discussed, it is no longer loyalty.

I feel the same way about respect.

It is given, unasked for. Otherwise it is no longer respect.

Sinergy

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:10:50 AM

popeye1250

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I'm not "poly" so to me loyalty is is a two way street between Dom and sub/slave.
I expect loyalty but I give total loyalty.
As for "discussing" it I wouldn't have a problem with that.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:16:41 AM

TethersEnd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Loyalty is given, never asked for. When it is discussed, it is no longer loyalty.

exactly Celticlord, loyality is given, possibly the real true gift of a Submissive, yet when it's questioned
most often something has shifted to create the need for discussion. i think many who find themself
at a similar point close down out of fear and do not discuss what is off balance. thus making discussion
a point of clarity which can either enforce or break, but either way ... clear in intent.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished.
~George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 13

RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:30:00 AM

celticlord2112

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Loyalty is given by neither Master nor slave, but by people.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:33:56 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Loyalty is given by neither Master nor slave, but by people.

so we are not people?
( I do know what you try to say ;) )

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 2/23/2008 11:34:16 AM >

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 11:35:11 AM

AquaticSub

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You can't prove to me that you are worth being loyal to with words. You have to do with deeds. And loyalty isn't something solely reserved for owners, I am loyal to friends and family as well.

Some things need to be discussed but if we have to discuss why I'm loyal to you, or why I should be, I don't think there is much hope for the relationship.

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 12:27:01 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Awe Julia, I'm not here to argue

Argue does not mean to fight in the context that I used the word... it means to debate something...

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 12:42:17 PM

ELUSIVE1

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I am poly...and funny, for years I have signed my emails to my partners as 'your loyalasswhore' or 'your loyalbitch', 'your loyalcumslut' whatever that particcular partner chose to call me...yes I do consider myself loyal to a fault, but then my whole life I have believed that monogamy is not important in a commited relationship,, Loyalty is Paramount

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RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 12:49:45 PM

kallisto

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I agree with Cali. Loyalty for me is not a conscious decision. It is something that I give withour realizing. It is something that happens when you feel that connection, that something in your soul, whether it be friendly, platonic, sexual, or otherwise.

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Post #: 19

RE: Loyalty, given or discussed. - 2/23/2008 1:43:03 PM

tahlly

Posts: 57
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I will be honest. Who gets and who keeps my loyalty is not as cut and dried as some may think.

I am loyal to my family; but with reservations. If they cross a line that I feel is wrong; they no longer have my loyalty. The same goes with my friends and with my owner. I would expect that if the roles were reversed, my family, friends, and owner would not remain loyal to me either; nor would I expect them to.

This is not something that is or has ever been discussed by us; but it is something that is ‘just known’.

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Post #: 20

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