stalemate

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Furr -> stalemate (9/18/2005 11:27:43 PM)
I have run into an interesting problem. A submissive man approached Me regarding his submission to Me and the training of his wife to be his Mistress. We talked for a while and discussed meeting. I insisted and in fact directed him to inform his wife of our meeting. He declined to inform her. My view was that I would not take part in something secret because it would eventually result in at least someone getting hurt. Also I knew that he would eventually have to inform her. his view was that he would not inform her until we had met and he knew that a relationship with Me could develop. I declined to meet with him under secrecy and things stopped. We never met. I felt that there were possibilities and was sorry to see it die on the vine. Does anyone have any suggestions or ways to get around this stalemate? Or should I just give it up? Furr

IronBear -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 12:17:02 AM)
I'd say that you have demonatrated your ethics already. Never lower your standards for anyone.

thinktress -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 12:19:33 AM)
well, i have never been in this situation. but it seems like his hesitation to tell his wife is a bit suspisous. but on the other hand, i can understand him wanting to be sure that what he was attempting to do with you would 'develop' into something worthy of telling his wife. But i say, if you are curious as to if you could really help this couple, why not give it a shot? Meet the guy once and see if after this meeting he informs his wife of the situation. If he still doesnt tell his wife, then you know he is a liar, and has alternative motives, and you dump him, learn from the experience, and move on. But on the other hand, if he tells his wife about who he has 'found', then you have begun setting up a training oppurtunity. what do you have to lose? just the time it takes to have lunch? peace and pain

IronBear -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 12:24:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thinktress well, i have never been in this situation. but it seems like his hesitation to tell his wife is a bit suspisous. but on the other hand, i can understand him wanting to be sure that what he was attempting to do with you would 'develop' into something worthy of telling his wife. But i say, if you are curious as to if you could really help this couple, why not give it a shot? Meet the guy once and see if after this meeting he informs his wife of the situation. If he still doesnt tell his wife, then you know he is a liar, and has alternative motives, and you dump him, learn from the experience, and move on. But on the other hand, if he tells his wife about who he has 'found', then you have begun setting up a training oppurtunity. what do you have to lose? just the time it takes to have lunch? peace and pain If you make exceptions to your ethics or standards where do you stop? Do you really believe that losing your integrety and dishonouring youself is worth it? maybe we play different games and have different standards.. The world can end before I'll lower my personal ethics and dishonour myself...

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 1:56:37 AM)
Say that you met with him merely to talk. Say you two had lunch together. Say his wife just happened to walk by and suspect the worst. It sounds to me like too many things could go wrong in that kind of situation. It could be the most innocent meeting, but with concerned parties uninformed it could destroy a marriage by the wife's lack of knowledge. It would be natural for her to suspect something. Either way, omission is a lie. If he doesn't tell his wife, he is lying to her. You went with the instinct that something was fishy in his opting not to tell her. My advice is to not back down from that. Until he tells her, I would make no further move, unless it is an e-mail or call requesting him to do so.

MstrssPassion -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 4:18:14 AM)
If he is seeking for the benefit of his current relationship & his wife is already aware of this, then there should not be a problem with his wife meeting with you at the same time. I would even go as far as checking ID just so you know it is a wife & not just a friend posing as a wife. (this actually happened to a friend of mine) I am poly & I know there are other poly persons out there as well. In my mind & within my ethics, meeting a married couple is not out of line. Unfortunately there are many married men on the net (& elsewhere)seeking dominant women without their wife's knowledge. Because of this I decided years ago to not have any contact with married men at all. It is just too much of a hassle to figure out the sincere & truthful from the lying & deceitful. I have heard all the bleeding heart stories I care to hear about how they are trapped in a vanilla marriage & it is their deepest desire to serve. It was their choice to enter a vanilla marriage & theirs decision to come to terms with. MstrssPassion

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 4:21:43 AM)
quote: I declined to meet with him under secrecy and things stopped. We never met. I felt that there were possibilities and was sorry to see it die on the vine. Does anyone have any suggestions or ways to get around this stalemate? So if I understand this correctly, this gentleman is actively looking to find a Dominant to work with him and his wife to help her learn to be his dominant.... BUT he hasn't really spoken to her about this? And won't until he meets you and knows there's a connection? Hmm I suspect he's going to need to "train" with you a few times to make sure he REALLY knows. Red flag red flag red flag.... Honestly? Sounds like an elaborate way to pretend like he's not cheating on his wife and yet get some play around it, since he's doing this "for her" (even though he hasn't talked to her about it) If this is allegedly to work with him AND the wife, she needs to consent and be involved from Day One. Period.

sarbonn -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 4:25:18 AM)
There was no stalemate. There was an attempt to cheat and your intention not to let it happen. You did the right thing. I think WAY too many people rationalize a reason why such an encounter would be okay, then they go over the line and end up a few months or years down the line wondering how they ever compromised their own moral principles.

JohnWarren -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 5:01:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear quote: ORIGINAL: thinktress well, i have never been in this situation. but it seems like his hesitation to tell his wife is a bit suspisous. but on the other hand, i can understand him wanting to be sure that what he was attempting to do with you would 'develop' into something worthy of telling his wife. But i say, if you are curious as to if you could really help this couple, why not give it a shot? Meet the guy once and see if after this meeting he informs his wife of the situation. If he still doesnt tell his wife, then you know he is a liar, and has alternative motives, and you dump him, learn from the experience, and move on. But on the other hand, if he tells his wife about who he has 'found', then you have begun setting up a training oppurtunity. what do you have to lose? just the time it takes to have lunch? peace and pain If you make exceptions to your ethics or standards where do you stop? Do you really believe that losing your integrety and dishonouring youself is worth it? maybe we play different games and have different standards.. The world can end before I'll lower my personal ethics and dishonour myself... I'm in IronBear's corner on this one. She has a LOT to lose and in my opinion she has made the right decision. "Just this once" is one of the most dangerous phrases in the language

lonewolf05 -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 6:01:15 AM)
give it up...if his other half is spose-to be his domme and he wants secrecy he is not real its a lie and a scam in MY eyes but do what ya wanna do wolfie

MsIncognito -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 6:17:35 AM)
How is giving someone the benefit of a doubt compromising one's ethics and standards?If she met with him for a coffee and he still didn't inform his wife then she could send him on his way. I don't see how that would be compromising her ethics. We're not talking about sex or play or an emotional relationship that the wife isn't aware of. We're talking about coffee. In a public place. If, however, she continued to see him knowing the wife was in the dark then that, IMO, would be compromising her ethics. It does seem, though, that it's a moot point since she did decide not to meet him (I would have done the same thing given what we know of the circumstances). Odds are she did the right thing. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear you make exceptions to your ethics or standards where do you stop? Do you really believe that losing your integrety and dishonouring youself is worth it? maybe we play different games and have different standards.. The world can end before I'll lower my personal ethics and dishonour myself...

IronBear -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 9:11:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito How is giving someone the benefit of a doubt compromising one's ethics and standards?If she met with him for a coffee and he still didn't inform his wife then she could send him on his way. I don't see how that would be compromising her ethics. We're not talking about sex or play or an emotional relationship that the wife isn't aware of. We're talking about coffee. In a public place. If, however, she continued to see him knowing the wife was in the dark then that, IMO, would be compromising her ethics. It does seem, though, that it's a moot point since she did decide not to meet him (I would have done the same thing given what we know of the circumstances). Odds are she did the right thing. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear you make exceptions to your ethics or standards where do you stop? Do you really believe that losing your integrety and dishonouring youself is worth it? maybe we play different games and have different standards.. The world can end before I'll lower my personal ethics and dishonour myself... The very fact of some one asking you to meet them behind his wife's back in a case like this is to me and I stress me, asking you to breach the ethical behaviour your have laid down. I probably have some very strict and ridgid ethical standards which apply to me alone. However in My world, a man's word is his bond and he should never be expected to lower his standards or even bend them untill such times that the matter has been more fully discussed and he may re-evaluate the situation. In this case the wife is told and is ok with a meeting. You can work out how you would work the senario.... The fact that someone wanted me to go behind his wife's back is a quick 3 strikes and out. However I'll tell him to look elsewhere but forget looking toward me. Still Y'all can apply what ever rules you live by and what seems good for you. I only have to face my self in the mirror and answer to myself no one else.

nella -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 9:34:37 AM)
The OP showed integrity and morale and did not end up in a bad situation, i say congratulations to her. i am whit Iron Bear in this. While i will not judge anyone, i personaly is no grate fan of cheating.

luvdragonx -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 12:41:22 PM)
If he was reluctant to tell his wife about simply meeting beforehand, I'd wager a guess that she'd be less than thrilled to find out about it after the fact. It's not like you're meeting to discuss the custom evening gown or 2 week tropical vacation he's surprising her with. As a wife, I'd understand if she felt betrayed by her husband discussing intimate issues with a stranger, then bringing her into it secondhand. I'm inclined to agree with the many others and say that he was just looking for a less direct route to some play time. I'm sometimes cynical though, so take my opinion for what it's worth. And I echo the sentiment that 'Just this once' is a very slippery slope. Been there, done that - not good. If it didn't feel right from the beginning, chances are it won't get any better.

Misstoyou -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 2:51:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito How is giving someone the benefit of a doubt compromising one's ethics and standards?If she met with him for a coffee and he still didn't inform his wife then she could send him on his way. I don't see how that would be compromising her ethics... Small point. The OP is male.

theRose4U -> RE: stalemate (9/19/2005 4:12:38 PM)
Once again IronBear well said. I had a similar experience with a potential sub that initally told me that he was divorced. Through mundaine goings on I noticed that he seemed to have a lot of his "EX" wife's belongings in his car, home, briefcase & finally confronted him with my suspicions. To wit he replied well we're ALMOST divorced...:D He was dropped flat that night. I ended up having to change phone numbers email etc as he did not take the dismissal well. A few weeks later I heard that he was being indicted by the feds for grand larceny...during his trial they suspended for his wife's funeral from breast cancer. He's now in club fed...karma is a bitch!! messing with a bond like marriage is begging for trouble.

night101owl -> RE: stalemate (9/20/2005 7:01:03 AM)
I wouldn't even go on a date with someone who was in a relationship, if they did not inform their partner about the date (or at least have an understanding around it). If your rule is that you don't cheat (or enable cheating), then there shouldn't be much difference between going on a date, having a play session, or developing a relaitonship. If he's not going to tell his wife about the date, then don't go. Period. (Unless you choose not to have that no-cheating rule in your life anymore.)

thetammyjo -> RE: stalemate (9/20/2005 7:08:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Furr I have run into an interesting problem. A submissive man approached Me regarding his submission to Me and the training of his wife to be his Mistress. We talked for a while and discussed meeting. I insisted and in fact directed him to inform his wife of our meeting. He declined to inform her. My view was that I would not take part in something secret because it would eventually result in at least someone getting hurt. Also I knew that he would eventually have to inform her. his view was that he would not inform her until we had met and he knew that a relationship with Me could develop. I declined to meet with him under secrecy and things stopped. We never met. I felt that there were possibilities and was sorry to see it die on the vine. Does anyone have any suggestions or ways to get around this stalemate? Or should I just give it up? Furr I've been there, Furr, I won't see someone who is married unless I meet with their spouse. And if, as you say above, he also wanted you to train her, how were you to do that unless you two met? You have a moral and ethical code, you stuck to it, you should be very proud of yourself for doing that.

OsideGirl -> RE: stalemate (9/20/2005 8:01:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luvdragonx If he was reluctant to tell his wife about simply meeting beforehand, I'd wager a guess that she'd be less than thrilled to find out about it after the fact. It's not like you're meeting to discuss the custom evening gown or 2 week tropical vacation he's surprising her with. As a wife, I'd understand if she felt betrayed by her husband discussing intimate issues with a stranger, then bringing her into it secondhand. Precisely. Sometimes intent is the almost the same as the act.

krikket -> RE: stalemate (9/20/2005 8:22:52 AM)
One of my few VERY hard limits is no married or attached men. i don't care if the wife knows/approves/etc., i just think i deserve a whole more out of relationship than i'd get starting off in 2nd place. While i realize that isn't what your situation was about, it still basically the same thing. We all have to do what we feel is right for ourselves. If it's not right for both parties, then i take the stand that the relationship, no matter what kind, just isn't going to work. i know that this is a "your mileage may vary" arrangement, but the one thing i've learned to ask those who used to try to "tempt" me is.."if they can't respect this limit, why would i believe they'd respect my other limits when i'm bound and gagged?" Personally i think you did the right thing, but in the end..you're really the only one who has to be happy with your decision. cheers, jimini

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