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SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:16:20 PM   
blue^elf


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I have a question: How "fundamentalistic" do you take SSC when it comes to alcohol? Does "Safe, Sane, Consentual" (or rather, the "Sane" part) mean that you shouldn't drink and play at all, or does it just mean that you should be careful and not play if you are drunk?

blue^elf
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:23:32 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm an adult. I only play with adults. We are both responsible for our choices.

Yes, I've been known to have a drink and still play. The bottom ALWAYS knows and makes their own choice about whether or not to participate.

ymmv

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to blue^elf)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:24:35 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

I will not mix BDSM play (spankings, floggings, whippings, heavy restraints, etc) and alcohol in either myself or my submissive.

Sex and alcohol are rather amusing.

Just my opinion, but there ya go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to blue^elf)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:29:33 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I don't consider myself to follow SSC, and I will drink and play.

I will not engage in heavy or serious play, but spanking/flogging as well as verbal-type scening seams to happen naturally when both my partner and I drink. We've been together for about 2years, though, and have a pretty good understanding of each other.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:30:07 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not much of a drinker, but I have no problem with responsible adults choosing to have a drink if they want to. If everyone's aware and can make an informed choice, then it's up to them.

And FTR, I don't take "SSC" seriously at all. To me it's nothing more than a mindless mantra. Even the originator of the phrase dislikes how it's used to beat people over the heads these days.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to blue^elf)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:47:07 PM   
melycious


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/20/2004
Status: offline 		~personally i take drinking and playing, the same way i take drinking and driving.... i am careful, because while i can be responsible for my own actions, i cant be responsible for someone elses actions that effect me 100%.... i play with folks that drink AND i play when i drink (course as Sherri will tell you, half a drink and i'm toasted..and then i'm easy.. or am i easy beforehand and just dont know it? )

when we host parties, we invite folks that we know, and have knowledge of, we offer a place to spend the nite and we do tell them, if we add a new person to the group, that we do allow drinking, and that some folks are recreational drug users.. people can then make their own decisions about attending, or playing..

as for SSC.. i have to agree with Sherri (watches the earth come to an end), its kinda a non issue for me..i dont subscribe to SSC as it is currently used.. for the simple reason that its used as an excuse or justification for someones experiences or lack of them.. SSC would not mean the same to me, as it would to some of my friends and so what i believe it started out to be as common term to describe informed consent.. has turned into just another buzz word.

~goes back to my cave~

mely

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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 6:49:47 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

Im not sure I understood the question.

Do I and my submissive play under the influence of alcohol? No.

Does it bother me if other people do? No.

Is it SSC? Up to the two people who are CONSENTING to decide if the behavior is SAFE
and SANE, not me.

Everybody should be allowed, my opinion, to make their own choices in life.

As usual, this is what I think and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 7:06:48 PM   
blue^elf


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies so far. I tried to make my question short and "open", to avoid sounding opinionated. (You people on this board don't know it, but I can be opinionated enough about things.) I am a little surprised to see so clearly that people don't follow the SSC mantra. But that's fine. It just shows how little I know about how people feel about SSC. I knew of course that quite a few people don't care much about SSC, but... Anyway, that wasn't my main point here. It's interesting to read the replies.

blue^elf

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 7:40:10 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blue^elf
I have a question: How "fundamentalistic" do you take SSC when it comes to alcohol? Does "Safe, Sane, Consentual" (or rather, the "Sane" part) mean that you shouldn't drink and play at all, or does it just mean that you should be careful and not play if you are drunk?


Like some others, I don't really buy into the SSC thing. However, BDSM, for me, is about control. First, control of myself. Then, control of another. I feel that alcohol and drugs give me less control over myself and I do not use them. I do not mind my slave having a drink or other relaxing substance, but I do not use them myself.

I get such a high out of the dom tingle I get when pushing the edge, I really don't need to enhance it. Utter obedience is my drug of choice.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to blue^elf)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 8:14:27 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: blue^elf
I have a question: How "fundamentalistic" do you take SSC when it comes to alcohol? Does "Safe, Sane, Consentual" (or rather, the "Sane" part) mean that you shouldn't drink and play at all, or does it just mean that you should be careful and not play if you are drunk?


Like some others, I don't really buy into the SSC thing. However, BDSM, for me, is about control. First, control of myself. Then, control of another. I feel that alcohol and drugs give me less control over myself and I do not use them. I do not mind my slave having a drink or other relaxing substance, but I do not use them myself.

I get such a high out of the dom tingle I get when pushing the edge, I really don't need to enhance it. Utter obedience is my drug of choice.

Yours,
Taggard


Taggard, you said this so beautifully, and I would have simply said "ditto" except for the SSC part. I believe that having a basic guideline, especially for those new to the lifestyle, to use as a rule of thumb, is not a bad thing.

I am simply delighted for you, by the way.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 8:24:45 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'd suggest reading "Safe Sane Consensual: The Making of a Shibboleth" by david stein (the originator of the phrase) for some interesting thoughts on the devolution of SSC. You can find it here: http://www.lthredge.com/ds/ssc.pdf

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 8:52:37 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

...the SSC part. I believe that having a basic guideline, especially for those new to the lifestyle, to use as a rule of thumb, is not a bad thing.


Milady Beckett-

I agree that having such a rule of thumb is Not A Bad Thing, indeed. But my objections to it are about the mindset we foster with it's use. These things we do are not safe- certainly, in most jurisdictions, not safe from prosecution, which even in the absence of a conviction, can destroy lives.

A couple I know are a minister and a private school teacher a second marrige for both of them, and they have custody of his two children from his prior marriage. I think they are crazy for being in the scene- I think they are taking risks that are certianly not rational, if perhaps falling short of insane.

Everytime I work with someone, I run the risk of their waking up a day or two later and deciding for whatever reason, to file charges. Consent, in NY, is not valid if the person is restrianed- so in fact, by NY law, even mild silkscarf bondage is rape.

While we have made some strides in recent years (the Janovic case comes to mind) I can't consider what we do to be safe prosecution.

I take the risks- I understand what they are. But telling people that what we do is Safe, Sane, and Consentual is often, I think, doing them a misservice.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 9:04:14 PM   
ThornBlood


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
And FTR, I don't take "SSC" seriously at all. To me it's nothing more than a mindless mantra. Even the originator of the phrase dislikes how it's used to beat people over the heads these days.


A new fetish? Huh.. people really will use anything for control of others won't they?

I don't play with floggers drunk.. Might hit muself in the eye..
What others do is their own business. To me the head rush is too sweet to waste.
I believe in SSC as it applies to me and my internal understanding of it.

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 9:06:54 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		I was expecting to see the holey SSC armada performing the Spanish Inquisition on this thread. I'm pleasently surprised to see this is not the case.

I like beer. I usually have two bottles of beer, four nights a week. I drink them during and after my dinner, while unwinding from the day. I don't believe it to impair my judgement or my abilities in either driving, or disciplining a slave. I don't drink to get 'drunk' (as I agree with what is said about control) but by no means am I the moral majority for consenting adults in their own bedrooms.

I think if your'e going to include alchohol, and everyone is aware of and accepts the risks, it's alright. I think like any other experience, it can be taken too far/hard, and abused. SSC or not, it's foolish to get drunk, get hopped up on a cocktail of drugs, and hop into the dungeon. Then again, this is where common sense comes into play - you have it or you don't I think.

(chalks one up for Darwin)

Stephan

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 9:29:40 PM   
blue^elf


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

I'd suggest reading "Safe Sane Consensual: The Making of a Shibboleth" by david stein (the originator of the phrase) for some interesting thoughts on the devolution of SSC. You can find it here: http://www.lthredge.com/ds/ssc.pdf


This told me things I didn't know. It definitely gave me a broader picture of what SSC really is, or was. Thank you.

blue^elf

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/13/2004 10:56:10 PM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		I am a light social drinker, which means for me, I have a few drinks a month. I will say that I don't have a drink before I play with a male. I might AFTERWARDS. But then thats me. I love the excitement I get from play, why dull even minutely the perfect high? As to SSC, well since we each have our own definitions of most words, I will stick to mine. As I am sure each of us has our own rules we live by. Tess

_____________________________


~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/14/2004 2:49:32 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
I was expecting to see the holey SSC armada performing the Spanish Inquisition on this thread. I'm pleasently surprised to see this is not the case.


That's because you can never expect the Spanish Inquistion!

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/14/2004 7:54:51 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		Gonna have to agree with Taggard here. I don't believe in following any set rules of how to enjoy my sexuality, SSC included, but I know I am an extremist in all things I do and thus I cannot properly engage the type of control or power or even mental attenuation needed while my mind is distracted by any said drug, drink, etc. Now on the other hand I have been know to use drugs or alcohol on subs but only for very long sessions, such as a rape/torture week etc where it all plays into the part but I like them fully aware and cognitive for the fun parts...just maybe a little something to help them sleep inbetween. It all comes down to a personal level though, if you feel you have the control you desire while still drunk then go for it. In fact I knew I Dom that could ONLY be a good sadist Master when drunk, think it brought out some interesting regressed memories he could release with. So it's all on the individual levels really.

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/14/2004 12:08:11 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Will imbide a few or two while topping...always have, probably always will...but thats not to say it's a common thing. More a private moment with a favoured someone or at a play party where its a socialising evening as well.

I know I struggled with the delimma of it all when running a B&D support group here in New Zealand. The SSC mantra was bandied about a lot but the blanket 'no alcohol' rule didn't sit well with me. Myself and my Dom/switch partner at the time were into the sensuality of play, we weren't doing anything in our play that had a high to extreme danger level...it was all so sexual and yummy. At home we'd share a Jack Daniels and a joint, put on some porn, play truth & dare strip poker, role play, all sorts...at no time sober or after some imbiding were either of us in danger.

As times gone on, I now know myself well enough to know when and when I shouldn't be playing. Comes back to self-policing and policing those nearest and dearest too you.

My mantra kinda goes SSC ... You will be safe and I will be sane..and to trust me, is to consent.

Jasmyn

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RE: SSC and alcohol - 7/14/2004 10:15:46 PM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hello, out there!!
I think that alcohol is a drug. It affects your brain. I don't want to not be less fully aware of my surroundings that I'm made to be. (hope that made sense.... ) I don't really give a hoot if other people do that, as long as the communication is there. That's where the consensuality comes in and that is key to the dynamic.
Now, I do have fantasies where I am drugged and used (hope this is appropriate) but I would want to FULLY consent to the activities before they started. So, I suppose that's not hard-core SSC, but life goes on. I would want safeguards in place and for my dominant to be informed. And that goes back to trust. Which starts with communication.
My point- what goes on between consenting adults is OK. Even getting sloppy drunk and putting needles through each other. Not safe, but not my business.
As Always
Berlin

(in reply to blue^elf)
Profile   Post #: 20
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