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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 1:41:38 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I don't recall the exact study, but I remember reading that moderate exercise is more effective than anti-depressants for treating most patients.  Honestly that makes a lot of sense to me.  It's rare that I see physically healthy people suffering from severe depression.  We all get the blues, but who the hell wants to be happy all the time? 

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 1:52:18 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

We all get the blues, but who the hell wants to be happy all the time? 



I do. Who the hell wouldn't want to be ?

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 1:56:26 PM   
Lumus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

We all get the blues, but who the hell wants to be happy all the time? 



I do. Who the hell wouldn't want to be ?


*slips you the E that will make the world a better place than Prozac*



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~ the other half of "L&L" ~

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 2:01:43 PM   
PanthersMom


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From: Cleveland Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't recall the exact study, but I remember reading that moderate exercise is more effective than anti-depressants for treating most patients.  Honestly that makes a lot of sense to me.  It's rare that I see physically healthy people suffering from severe depression.  We all get the blues, but who the hell wants to be happy all the time? 


that's a popular misconception, people who take antidepressants are not by any means happy all the time, we still get the blues.  our antidepressants help keep us from getting so down we cannot function or become suicidal.  and yes, exercise can help, that's part of the reccommended therapy.  unfortunately, being in a wheelchair, i'm limited as to how much exercise i can do, it's not like it was before my illness progressed and i could still walk.  just have to push and do as much as you can, in conjunction with the medication, just to maintain a normal state, it isn't a false euphoria.  you want that, go have a few shots of whiskey.

PM

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 2:07:06 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lumus

slips you the E that will make the world a better place than Prozac*



Ah, no... makes me love everybody too much  . And I won't mention the comedown.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 2:12:16 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

I do. Who the hell wouldn't want to be ?


Me.  Negative emotions are part of life; they teach us valuable lessons.  I enjoy the whole of the human experience, not just the fuzzy stuff.  I need to see and feel the ugly parts of life.  It makes the good parts of life so much more enjoyable.  I don't want to live in a numb state of perpetual bliss.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 2:16:04 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It's true that pain and sorrow are part of life's rich tapestry... but if I could be happy all the time, I'd take it.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 2:55:36 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

LMAO.  It was funnier when he said he was taking comedian.

Cali



Yes it was........too funny.


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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 3:16:20 PM   
Lumus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's true that pain and sorrow are part of life's rich tapestry... but if I could be happy all the time, I'd take it.


*tries to picture a submissive who is always happy...

...NO MATTER WHAT*

"Gunna smack yo ass wiffa cheese grater, 'Happy Bitch'!"

...

*shivers*



_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:15:44 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Any comments?


This is old news, as has been stated in expert testimony to parliament in the past.

Also not surprising, they're reacting by throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

Modern SSRI and SNRI antidepressants are essentially on par with placebo; others are not.

SSRIs' main advantage is low toxicity. They don't really do anything much, so it's rather close to being impossible to accidentally or intentionally kill yourself by an overdose, unless you combine them with other drugs. Their low efficacy has been known for a long time. SNRIs are essentially the same in this regard, as demonstrated in another, statistically sound study. They also tend to have more profound withdrawal effects during tapering, though neither are addictive per se. The only reason these drugs have been approved and found widespread use in treating depression is the amazing effort spent on it by drug companies, who can make a comparatively easy buck off them.

For these reasons, experienced psychiatrists prefer to use other drugs, particularly the older ones that are effective.

Such older drugs are first and foremost the tricyclics and the MAOIs. Those tend to inspire irrational fear in doctors who have little or no experience with them, because of misunderstandings that have been passed from one paper to another without critical thought. Also, they are off-patent, so there isn't nearly as much money to be made off them.

Among these, drugs like Anafranil (clomipramine), Elavil (amitriptyline), Nardil (phenelzine) and Parnate (tranylcypromine) have an exceptionally good track record. They are also reasonably priced, for those who live places where that is an issue. My experience has been that Parnate is the best and most effective choice of these, and the literature clearly supports it, with remission rates (i.e. full recovery) of 85% for treatment "resistant" patients. Compare that to improvement rates (i.e. 50% reduction in severity, but not recovery) of about 35% with modern drugs in clinical practice.

There are others out there, of course, but if people would use these instead, the job would get done.

It would pretty quickly get boring for most of the drug company researchers.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:20:53 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

We all get the blues, but who the hell wants to be happy all the time? 


Clinical depression isn't even remotely related to "having the blues."

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:31:56 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Clinical depression isn't even remotely related to "having the blues."


I never said it was.  But you can't convince me that people with "the blues" don't get handed out anti depressants all the time.  I think the overwhelming majority of people who take anti-depressants have no business being prescribed them.  It's a perfect example of our self-involved, poor me, overly histrionic, drama queen culture.  If you have a problem, you just take a pill and fix it, right?  Sorry, life isn't that easy and it never should be.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/26/2008 4:34:40 PM >

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:33:57 PM   
celticlord2112


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Status: offline 		What would be of interest would be requiring the drug companies to fully publish the results of ALL studies of medications, coupled with a requirement to stop advertising medications in the mass media to ill-informed consumers. Put complete data in the hands of those best positioned to inform patients so that effective remedies may be identified more quickly.

Too often, the profit motives of drug companies reduces the medications they devise to little better than 19th-century style patent medicine.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:35:41 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I think the overwhelming majority of people who take anti-depressants have no business being prescribed them.


In some places, that's the case, sure. Since they don't actually do anything much, it's no biggie, though.

I'm more concerned with those who need the drugs, but aren't getting them, or are getting crap ones that don't work.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 4:54:28 PM   
soul2share


Posts: 7084
Joined: 12/18/2007
From: somewhere out there.....
Status: offline 		I, like Panther, will be taking the medication I take for life.  It isn't a "happy pill", even tho I joke about it to those that know I take it.  But the difference between me now, and me before I started taking said medication is night and day, and I don't want to go back to what I used to be.  It was a mental meltdown that sent me running to a phychiatrist and later, a therapist.  Notice I said meltdown, not breakdown......I didn't end up trying to commit suicide, or homicide, but was reduced to an angry, crying huddled mess.  This was brought on by my then boyfriend putting some howling woman "singer", PJ somone or other, in the CD player, and telling me to just TRY to listen to it.  It was like my mind exploded.  I was an agnry, short-tempered person who would fly off at the slightest provocation....computer slowed down, phone ringing, stupid police officers......things that under normal circumstances don't even faze me now.

Pills aren't the magic cure-all some expect them to be.  But for me, they work, I don't care what the studies say.  Mine doesn't make me high, doesn't make me see the world through rose colored glasses, doesn't make all my problems go away.  What it does is regulate the hormones in my brain so that I can function as what is seen as a normal human being.  Trust me, I used to be a screaming banshee at work.....people were actually scared of me, and scared FOR me sometimes.  I'll never give them up....period!

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 5:30:12 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yeah, I heard that on the radio last night. Not all that surprising, when you think about it...



True, ultimately, the phramaceutical companies are ploughing in millions of pounds in R&D, and they want a return.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 5:34:41 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

It's just what I see in my world.

Cali



Fair enough; there's no accounting for first hand experience.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 5:42:19 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

NG - I caught the headline on one of the papers that said 40 million people were being prescribed these drugs

Did this refer to the UK alone, Europe as a whole, the western world, the US or some other geographic area please?

It just made me think, that given we have around 60 million people, 10 million of whom are likely to be kids, it would mean that almost everyone was on one of these drugs!

E


3.5 million in the UK, which is a lot of people when the young'ns are taken out of the equation.

Being unhappy or anxious are normal human emotions, but they're being misconstrued as something that needs a pill to resolve.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/26/2008 5:44:18 PM >

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 5:43:45 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's true that pain and sorrow are part of life's rich tapestry... but if I could be happy all the time, I'd take it.


If your emotional state was static and invariable, how would you know whether you were happy or not?

DrPhilergy


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RE: May be of interest...... - 2/26/2008 5:59:11 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Fair enough; there's no accounting for first hand experience.


Actually, there is. In fact, to get the actual efficacy numbers, you need to collate first hand experiences.
A laboratory setting with artificial inclusion/exclusion criterion just doesn't cut it.
It tells you how it works in a lab, not how it'll work in a clinic.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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