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RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 7:47:58 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Well I am with Lynx, in that I don't want to kill anyone....which is an obvious bummer for the dude who wrote to me the other day.....

Aside from the obvious, there is stuff that I won't do because I am repulsed by it---I put those things in a separate category from things I just haven't done because I don't enjoy them. Urine, feces, menstrual fluids, vomit---not for me. CD/sissy/AB/age play. Verbal humiliation, generally. There's other activities that I am sure haven't even crossed my mind that are just on my personal icky list.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to LadyLynx)

Post #: 21

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 8:10:59 AM

patwi

Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

I do absolutely feel that the hard limits of a Dominant are handled much differently then those of a sub/slave since the Dominant is in control.

How are they handled differently for you? I find this very curious.

Celeste

I'm also interested to know this. Are a doms limits treated with more...*thinks for the right turn of phrase* respect or seriousness than a subs?

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 22

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 8:21:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

It's probably a case of semantics but if submissive A puts her foot down and tells Dominant Z that she wants to do X (and he is not interested in X) or even if Dominant Z wishes to do X and submissive A puts her foot down and says "ixnay" who is really in control in that situation? Limits are equivalent to control. If you are deploying them then you are assuming a measure of control. This is not to say that people on certain sides of the slash should not do this but rather to say that if you do - own up to it.

Really? I just see that as saying you aren't compatible. I am never going to do inverted suspension. It will jump start my vertigo and that is not something I will allow. Now if you wanted to play with me and said that I had to put up with inverted suspension, then I would exercise my ability to withdraw consent/take control and say "see you around".

Whether it's a physical problem or it causes immediate panic attacks, there are things I cannot do simply because they are damaging to my health, to my ability to parent etc. Should you refuse to accept that since the girl next door can do these things, and therefore I shouldn't have differing medical/psychological issues then of course I would walk, if not run.

It's my health and my life. If you can't agree to not damaging them, then I can't agree to play with you.

Generic you, not you specifically.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 23

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 8:22:08 AM

LadyHathor

Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Well I am with Lynx, in that I don't want to kill anyone....which is an obvious bummer for the dude who wrote to me the other day.....

NO Way! Reminds Me of the guy who wanted to be killed and eaten, he consented, the consent was taped and he was killed and eaten----ccccaaaaarrreeeeeppppeyyyyy

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 24

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 8:24:50 AM

PsyVamp

Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline

IMO everyone has limits.
I have the usual- I won't kill anyone, no underage people, no permanent damage.
I don't do toilet play, no golden showers, no scat.
I don't do sounds because I have no experience, same with needle play.
There are others that I am interested in but have no experience, so while I won't do them now, I don't consider them hard limits because it is possible that after I learn, they won't be limits.
Age play does nothing for me.. I remember the one person I was chatting with that called me "mommy". That was the end of it. I couldn't even think of ever talking to him again.

Lady Jag

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 25

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 9:59:35 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I have the logical limits that refer to activities that are illegal and in general considered immoral but I also have some individual limits.

For example, I can't do age play where I am the "mommy" or similar figures. Franky it connects too strongly with my own survival of childhood abuse.

I don't do blood, urine or scat play because I'm not qualified to do them safely and don't have enough interest in any of that to get the training and education I think I'd need to be safe.

I don't do monogamy -- that just isn't me.

I don't own or usually train people who all ready have a personal dynamic especially one where there is someone dependent on them in some fashion. I'm selfish and self-centered about my scenes; if I put in the time to own or train you, I will be your first priority. (I'm not foolish however, I know mundane necessities must come first but I can choose to not have subs who are married, partnered, or parents)

I won't act like someone's therapist or mommy -- you have personal problems and issues, you take care of them or being in the process of dealing with them.

There are certain mental/physical conditions I have to draw a line at. I think that's very fair considering I know that many would draw the line at my own conditions and that is their right to do so. No, I don't think this is the place to share them.

Nor do I think this is the place to talk about limits I have in terms of religious, political, social, and economic philosophies.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 26

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 10:04:23 AM

lilabbotsfordgrl

Posts: 140
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

"logical" limits of whatever's generally considered immoral........... as if the general societal consensus of morality is logical in ANY way.

And the idea that anyone who wants to call their dominant-type "mommy" or "daddy" has "personal issues" and needs to take care of them?
Wow, you have 4922 posts here? :(

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 27

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 11:24:22 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilabbotsfordgrl

"logical" limits of whatever's generally considered immoral........... as if the general societal consensus of morality is logical in ANY way.

And the idea that anyone who wants to call their dominant-type "mommy" or "daddy" has "personal issues" and needs to take care of them?
Wow, you have 4922 posts here? :(

I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't.

As for your second statement above, that has no relationship at all to my post!

Here's a quote from my post since you didn't want to quote it so you could say what you liked:

"For example, I can't do age play where I am the "mommy" or similar figures. Franky it connects too strongly with my own survival of childhood abuse."

I think you skipped several lines there and somehow connected it with this quote that I said a few lines later: "I won't act like someone's therapist or mommy -- you have personal problems and issues, you take care of them or being in the process of dealing with them." That has nothing to do with age play -- it has to do with taking what I personally consider too much power over another person's life. If you are depressed -- get help, I'm not your therapist. If you need a job -- get a job, I'm not your mommy you don't have a right to live with me for free. etc.

Wow, I'm surprised, lilabbotsfordgrl, that someone who feels they can question another can't bother to actually look at what they said better especially when its a question of personal limits and not making limits for others.

Perhaps you are God and you have the right to make limits for the rest of us, but I make no such claim. I'm just a human being.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)

Post #: 28

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 11:44:31 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't.

Perhaps you are God and you have the right to make limits for the rest of us, but I make no such claim. I'm just a human being.

I saw these two statements as a bit conflicting to each other. There are many here who would engage in illegal activities (do you speed?!), and many here who engage in activities that are controversial in nature. What is moral and what is not is subjective.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 29

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 11:50:29 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Simple... I won't beat a submissive beyond what I think is safe even if she begs for more.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 30

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 12:08:14 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

Would i be wrong in assuming, that a D-type, like a sub, has evolving limits as they progress, or change partners? Some of my former limits are quite laughable...even ones i considered "hard"at the time.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 31

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 12:24:31 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't.

Perhaps you are God and you have the right to make limits for the rest of us, but I make no such claim. I'm just a human being.

I saw these two statements as a bit conflicting to each other. There are many here who would engage in illegal activities (do you speed?!), and many here who engage in activities that are controversial in nature. What is moral and what is not is subjective.

Great, that's your opinion, and in fact, I'd agree that in some areas doing BDSM at all is borderline legal. If you want to ask me questions about why I worded that way great but that's not what the first person to reply to my comment in the thread did.

I thought this was a thread for tops/doms to lay out their hard limits not to jump upon each others limits.

I found it very weird that lilabbotsfordgrl went out of her way to attack my post about my personal hard limits.

You or anyone else is welcomed to question my hard limits IF you are in a relationship with me but until then why is your concern?

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 2/27/2008 12:33:55 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 32

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 12:35:30 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Would i be wrong in assuming, that a D-type, like a sub, has evolving limits as they progress, or change partners? Some of my former limits are quite laughable...even ones i considered "hard"at the time.

That's been my experience for some soft limits I've had but as far as my hard limits go, no those haven't changed for me.

I think it is more common for them to change over time simply because most human beings change over time.

In fact, I have more hard limits now than I used to -- for example the requirement that someone who has problems needs to be working on them cause I'm not his therapist developed because of a trainee I had who refused to get help for an alcohol problem. I could have been very supportive of her if she'd been willing to address her issues and the resulting problem with drinking too much too often (I think ending up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning should be a huge red flag for that).

Some folks don't like that as my hard limit? Too damned bad because it is my hard limit not anyone else's.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 2/27/2008 12:38:40 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 33

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 1:06:29 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Great, that's your opinion, and in fact, I'd agree that in some areas doing BDSM at all is borderline legal. If you want to ask me questions about why I worded that way great but that's not what the first person to reply to my comment in the thread did.

Yes, of course it is my opinion. And what I wrote had nothing to do with what the first person in reply to your comment wrote. It had only to do with my own opinion. I'm not sure why you brought the other person up.

quote:

I thought this was a thread for tops/doms to lay out their hard limits not to jump upon each others limits.

It is, and I didn't.

quote:

I found it very weird that lilabbotsfordgrl went out of her way to attack my post about my personal hard limits.

OK, but what does that have to do with my post?

quote:

You or anyone else is welcomed to question my hard limits IF you are in a relationship with me but until then why is your concern?

I didn't question your limits. You are free to have whatever limits work for you, of course, and they in no way affect me. I simply brought up my concern of your applying the term "immoral" to those who might engage in activities that you don't. You are, on one hand, saying you aren't God, yet on the other, determining what is immoral for others. That's the part I took issue with and commented on. Your reply, however, was about someone else jumping on your limits.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 34

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 1:10:18 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Would i be wrong in assuming, that a D-type, like a sub, has evolving limits as they progress, or change partners? Some of my former limits are quite laughable...even ones i considered "hard"at the time.

I changed greatly as a Dom over time. I went from a rough, role playing person to one who understood the dynamic and technical aspects of various kinds of play. I became unafraid to let my sensitivity and intelligence surface in D/s play. If I took my new found knowledge as a way to push submissives harder, I had a firm realization that I knew what I was doing and not "hurting" her physically or, more importantly, emotionally.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 35

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 2:14:16 PM

NJDiscipline

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

I do absolutely feel that the hard limits of a Dominant are handled much differently then those of a sub/slave since the Dominant is in control.

How are they handled differently for you? I find this very curious.

Celeste

I'm also interested to know this. Are a doms limits treated with more...*thinks for the right turn of phrase* respect or seriousness than a subs?

As a Dominant I control the session. I decide what will happen during the session... When "planning" my sessions, I do not plan anything that would involve my hard limits. Therefore it is easy to be sure my hard limits are not broken. As a slave, she is under my control, I must respect her hard limits when "planning" my sessions, and I must choose not do break those limits of hers. What I meant by my statement is that the slave must trust that the Dominant will respect her hard limits, whereas the Dominant has the luxury of being in control of whether or not his limits are broken.

MR. MILLER

(in reply to patwi)

Post #: 36

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 2:21:37 PM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline

Animals and anything illegal, yeah, like you said -- kind of standard, I suppose.

Other than that? No scat, vomit, furry sex, or baby play. Not much makes me squeamish in the BDSM realm but these four things are certain to send me running for the hills.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 37

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 7:14:33 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

My limits include any act that can end up with a police complaint being filed against me.

I also tend to hard limit individuals who WOULD file said complaint.

And associations that limit my personal freedoms and perogatives.

That pretty much covers the bases.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to LadyLynx)

Post #: 38

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 8:00:53 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

I do absolutely feel that the hard limits of a Dominant are handled much differently then those of a sub/slave since the Dominant is in control.

How are they handled differently for you? I find this very curious.

Celeste

I'm also interested to know this. Are a doms limits treated with more...*thinks for the right turn of phrase* respect or seriousness than a subs?

As a Dominant I control the session. I decide what will happen during the session... When "planning" my sessions, I do not plan anything that would involve my hard limits. Therefore it is easy to be sure my hard limits are not broken. As a slave, she is under my control, I must respect her hard limits when "planning" my sessions, and I must choose not do break those limits of hers. What I meant by my statement is that the slave must trust that the Dominant will respect her hard limits, whereas the Dominant has the luxury of being in control of whether or not his limits are broken.

MR. MILLER

Sure, but just because your limits don't come into play doesn't meant they don't exist - which was the point of my post. In my experience, I've encountered a lot of submissives who desire for me to do things that I simply won't do. Sure, I can and mostly have just said no from the get-go but other times I've actually had people manipulate me into going along with their desires (unbeknownst to me...I thought I was doing it of my own free will at the time only to later realize that what I had done was really a limit for me.) To try to make this make more sense...I once encountered a man who wanted to be "broken" and told that he was worthless, made to believe it, and beaten into a state where he would never try to engage with a woman again and thus deemed celibate for life. Many aspects of his fantasy scenario touch on things that are very hard limits for me such as destroying someone's self esteem. Of course no one did or could have forced me to engage with him and I didn't, realizing he was not healthy (IMO) for wanting that. I know as soon as I post this though, someone will say that I have no right to call him unhealthy for his desires. But that's a limit for me. I'm talking much less about the physical activities when I speak of my limits as a top/dom/sadist. There are just things I won't do to someone, no matter how much they really, really, really, want it.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to NJDiscipline)

Post #: 39

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 10:50:34 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

As a Dominant I control the session. I decide what will happen during the session... When "planning" my sessions, I do not plan anything that would involve my hard limits. Therefore it is easy to be sure my hard limits are not broken. As a slave, she is under my control, I must respect her hard limits when "planning" my sessions, and I must choose not do break those limits of hers. What I meant by my statement is that the slave must trust that the Dominant will respect her hard limits, whereas the Dominant has the luxury of being in control of whether or not his limits are broken.

MR. MILLER

Thank you so much for the clarification. That makes perfect sense.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to NJDiscipline)

Post #: 40

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