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RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/27/2008 11:29:41 PM

Owner4SexSlave

Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

I've actually have had a few ask me to do somethings to 'em where I had to sit down and mentally explore and decide if I would or would not do it. Call it limit exploration.

It's one thing to have fantasies about doing something and another thing in actually doing it.

Sure, Scat and diapers and such are limits for me.   However, things such as Gun play (playing with loaded guns) are a hard limit for me.   I never really gave "Gun play" much of a thought until somebody mentioned it as being an activitity they enjoyed.   OK, just is a limit for me.   But it was something I never would have listed as a hard limit until I was asked about it.

Now there have been activities such as Rape Play, when I first did it this, it had been an unexplored limit.   Basically she asked me if I would do it, I thought about it for a moment and agreeded.   Yes, I discovered I enjoy doing this activitity. I grew as the result of it.

I can give similar examples of crossing or not crossing a limit.   Basically yes, us DOMs even have our own limits.   Generally, the limits between an Dom and sub tend to vary. Depends upon the experience and education about an activitity along with how moral or safe one feels doing it.   Some activitities just will Squick other people out.

I really would not, nor could not make a broad statement that s-types had more limits compared to us D-types.   Hell, I have encountered some subs with low to few limits.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 41

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 4:19:50 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
It's my health and my life. If you can't agree to not damaging them, then I can't agree to play with you.

Understandable. There are things I do to my submissive that I could not endure myself if I was to allow myself to be placed in that position. There are things I do to my submissive that my ex could not do. If you can't do something you can't do it and that's that. I guess I should have made a distinction between "can't do" and "won't do" limits before someone came along and muddied the waters with medical limitations. That is not what I was referring to.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 42

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 7:12:05 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

~FR to no one in particular~
I won't say that Master or I either one have the "usual" limits (whatever that is) as to what is illegal and/or immoral. As others have said, you can debate all day what everyone's definition of "immoral" is. I have never believed that just because something is illegal it is necessarily immoral at all and alot of what I consider immoral has never been against the law. I find we don't share a "common" definition of what immorality involves but it's hard to go into specifics since one is very limited here in talking about anything not popularly engaged in or accepted.

So, with that disclaimer

: I asked Master if He feels He has any "hard limits." #1: He does not share His property with other men. Period. That's His rule and that's not a limit to be crossed. #2: He is not into scat. He doesn't have anything against others doing it if it pleases them. It's simply not something He cares to be involved in. #3: Not really a "limit," but He is not into branding. He personally does not find the end result aesthetically pleasing. Again, He feels if you like it, go for it. Just not a personal preference of His. That's about it. Other than that, except the usual "chainsaw" nonsense

, He is open to doing or looking into doing most anything else...............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 43

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 7:53:02 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I didn't question your limits. You are free to have whatever limits work for you, of course, and they in no way affect me. I simply brought up my concern of your applying the term "immoral" to those who might engage in activities that you don't. You are, on one hand, saying you aren't God, yet on the other, determining what is immoral for others. That's the part I took issue with and commented on. Your reply, however, was about someone else jumping on your limits.

I didn't I that I decided, I said that "I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't." -- I think most people

Not I know most people
Not all people
Not I instruct or demand that all people

I think you've pushed what I typed beyond what I really typed.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 44

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 9:09:45 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I didn't question your limits. You are free to have whatever limits work for you, of course, and they in no way affect me. I simply brought up my concern of your applying the term "immoral" to those who might engage in activities that you don't. You are, on one hand, saying you aren't God, yet on the other, determining what is immoral for others. That's the part I took issue with and commented on. Your reply, however, was about someone else jumping on your limits.

I didn't I that I decided, I said that "I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't." -- I think most people

Not I know most people
Not all people
Not I instruct or demand that all people

I think you've pushed what I typed beyond what I really typed.

OK. So you apparently have an opinion of what is immoral for most people. "I think most people would consider...activities to be logical and immoral." It is a generalization of what most people think, and a reflection of what you feel is right. This, from someone who didn't want her own limits criticized.

I haven't pushed anything. You either haven't communicated clearly or you said exactly what you meant but don't like being challenged on it. In any case, you have not provided any further clarity; you have only repeated what you have said and complained about what someone else said.

So this conversation is futile to continue. I wish you well.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 45

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 9:29:16 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

I never really thought of him having limits, just preferences that would probably change and grow over time. He's terrified of needles. One of the most wonderful things he's ever done for me is just holding my hand while someone else stuck a bunch of needles in my back. I think that (gently) pushing each other's limits just helps us grow.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)

Post #: 46

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 10:11:19 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...it's the other person's limits that actually "limit" your activity?

that's this slave's perspective. if she dictated the limits, it would limit Master to enjoying only the activities she is willing to participate in. she has no desire to limit Master, and is a willing participant in whatever He desires whether that specific activity blows her skirt up or makes her nauseous.

once this slave accepted Master's limits, she is the one who is limited...by the guidelines that He desires and by the experiences He allows her to participate in.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 47

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 11:14:04 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

My absolutes are: adult baby, direct scat play (indirect may be an option but I'm not using anyone as my toilet), anything I'm unsafe to be doing due to inexperience/lack of information (I'll try and test new things, but be smart about it if we do... I'm not jumping into anything and risking real health issues).

Almost absolute in my private life: sexual contact and exchange of bodily fluids (90+% of the time they are no-no's, few are allowed to be that type of familiar with me and even then in only certain ways)

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 48

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 12:49:29 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I didn't question your limits. You are free to have whatever limits work for you, of course, and they in no way affect me. I simply brought up my concern of your applying the term "immoral" to those who might engage in activities that you don't. You are, on one hand, saying you aren't God, yet on the other, determining what is immoral for others. That's the part I took issue with and commented on. Your reply, however, was about someone else jumping on your limits.

I didn't I that I decided, I said that "I think most people would consider limits like not involving children or animals or doing illegal activities to be logical and immoral -- I don't want to assume that you don't." -- I think most people

Not I know most people
Not all people
Not I instruct or demand that all people

I think you've pushed what I typed beyond what I really typed.

OK. So you apparently have an opinion of what is immoral for most people. "I think most people would consider...activities to be logical and immoral." It is a generalization of what most people think, and a reflection of what you feel is right. This, from someone who didn't want her own limits criticized.

I haven't pushed anything. You either haven't communicated clearly or you said exactly what you meant but don't like being challenged on it. In any case, you have not provided any further clarity; you have only repeated what you have said and complained about what someone else said.

So this conversation is futile to continue. I wish you well.

Wow you are really reading a lot into what I typed.

I might be wrong in that I think most people would consider certain things logical and/or immoral.

Did I say that my way of thinking was the only way? No, I didn't though that has been your assumption along with another person.

Did I say that others who didn't agree were immoral or illogical? No, again that is your interpretation of what I said.

In fact, I'm going to go even further since you want clarification and say that I believe that most people believe that their limits on based on what they consider logical and moral reasoning and considerations.

I find it very interesting and bit weird that when I refer to the limits that most others have listed or simply truncated in common in this thread I'm called unclear and questioned and yet their lists are not questioned. Some folks don't even bother with the common limits, probably assuming that everyone believes that those are common I'm guessing -- if that's wrong, someone please clarify why you didn't include some limits such as kids, death, animals, etc.

So my opinion isn't drawn from my butt but from looking at this thread and having such discussions for well over a decade now with others. If you have more experience than me or can point out to me where these common limits are incorrect and in fact uncommon, then I'd say I was unclear and further more that I might not be in the appropriate "community".

Now if this were a one-on-one negotiation and getting to know another person, I think that listing even common limits is a good idea so that you don't make an assumption and can see differences that might be important.

But this thread isn't such a negotiation.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 2/28/2008 12:52:28 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 49

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 12:58:45 PM

Lumus

Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline

Since I haven't seen it mentioned, I would briefly note that limits and limitations can cause the same end result, even though the former is what we will not do, and the latter what we cannot. If we go by the presumption that limits are chosen based on internal criteria and dictate what will be allowed [from a Dom/me perspective], then limitations may come into play [no pun intended].

Example: If I'm in bed with a nasty strain of flu, I'm probably limited to breathing, the occasional trip to the bathroom, and precious little else. This would certainly impacts what my limits are at that time, since I am not going to engage in anything if I feel it compromises my girl. [she would argue the point, but that's because she's sweet, and fusses over me.] Thus not engaging in anything while sick, under the influence, etcetera, however temporary, still has an impact, and may be worth considering given that limits may also change over periods of time [albeit longer ones].

_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 50

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 1:35:41 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Wow you are really reading a lot into what I typed.

I might be wrong in that I think most people would consider certain things logical and/or immoral.

Did I say that my way of thinking was the only way? No, I didn't though that has been your assumption along with another person.

Did I say that others who didn't agree were immoral or illogical? No, again that is your interpretation of what I said.

In fact, I'm going to go even further since you want clarification and say that I believe that most people believe that their limits on based on what they consider logical and moral reasoning and considerations.

I find it very interesting and bit weird that when I refer to the limits that most others have listed or simply truncated in common in this thread I'm called unclear and questioned and yet their lists are not questioned. Some folks don't even bother with the common limits, probably assuming that everyone believes that those are common I'm guessing -- if that's wrong, someone please clarify why you didn't include some limits such as kids, death, animals, etc.

So my opinion isn't drawn from my butt but from looking at this thread and having such discussions for well over a decade now with others. If you have more experience than me or can point out to me where these common limits are incorrect and in fact uncommon, then I'd say I was unclear and further more that I might not be in the appropriate "community".

Now if this were a one-on-one negotiation and getting to know another person, I think that listing even common limits is a good idea so that you don't make an assumption and can see differences that might be important.

But this thread isn't such a negotiation.

This is turning into a lot more than what I intended it to be. I merely made a comment about one person assuming what is immoral and then making a comment on the other hand about about not being God. I found irony in it.

For the last time - I don't care what your limits are. You can list them or not list them. They do not matter. I am not out to challenge them. Heavens knows, my limits are defined by somebody else.

I don't have anything else to say on this, as it keeps getting turned into an issue about your limits, which I'm not interested in. Again, I wish you well, 10-4, Copy, Roger, Over and Out.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 51

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 6:45:55 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

You either haven't communicated clearly or you said exactly what you meant but don't like being challenged on it.

Personally, I think it's the former, but don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. The thought was convoluted and poorly written and you're not the only one who noticed. That said ..

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 52

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 7:54:33 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

OK but I still think that guy at the face of the horse looks obsene....lol.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 53

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/28/2008 7:59:11 PM

Nineveh

Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NJDiscipline

I do absolutely feel that the hard limits of a Dominant are handled much differently then those of a sub/slave since the Dominant is in control.

How are they handled differently for you? I find this very curious.

Celeste

I'm also interested to know this. Are a doms limits treated with more...*thinks for the right turn of phrase* respect or seriousness than a subs?

I would say they are treated with less seriousness in most cases. As they are much easier to deal with if they come up in a scene. If the Dom is in control of the scene and it looks like things are omoving toward his limit he steers them away. A sub does not alwyas have that option and needs to make her limits very, very clear.

(in reply to patwi)

Post #: 54

RE: A Dom/Top's hard limits - 2/29/2008 12:28:50 AM

KindLadyGrey

Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline

HARD LIMITS

- Degredation. TammyJo, I'm so glad to see someone else list this as a hard limit. There is a big difference between humiliation and actually tearing down someones self esteem.

- Sex outside the context of a loving relationship. I don't make love unless I am in love. I don't do the casual fuck. I may or may not have the willpower to hold off on actual sex until I am certain the person in question loves me back.

- All the icky excrement stuff. Poop, pee, vomit. . .no fucking way!

- Anyone with a mental illness that makes them incapable of acting ethically, rationally, and taking responsibility for their own actions. Anyone verified Borderline Personality is out. Schizophrenics and Manic Depressives who do not keep up with their meds and therapy are out. Alcoholics and addicts are out. You get the idea.

- Monogamy. I am polyamorous. Frankly, I find monogamy degrading and can't cope with it even if I only have one partner. No person will ever own rights to my sexuality. If you cannot be JOYFUL about my poly-ness then move along. None of this "Oh well, I really like you so I think I can handle it as long as you don't talk about it and you let me pretend none of your other lovers exist" crap. I'm going to talk about it. Sometimes, I'm going to come home and drag you into my lap and tell you about all the horrible things I just did to someone else. If you can't see that making you happy, then you hit my hard limit.

- Bullwhips and similar heavy single-tails. These require skill I do not have, and in addition scare the shit out of me. (Supposing I did devote the time to learning, I'd be happy to use them as a mindfuck prop, but I would never ever hit anyone with one. Even if some cute painslut begs for it, it ain't happenin')

- Asphyxiation. I might engage in a little light breath play, but I will never cut off someone's air supply fully.

- Age play. I have two kids. This creeps me the hell out. Also, I've changed enough diapers in my lifetime, so that ain't happenin'.

- Inserting things in medically inappropriate places. I do not sound or catheterize, I will not put anything more hardcore than earplugs in your ears, and I won't stick anything in your sinus cavity. I am happy to stick whatever I feel like in your ass. . .dildos, plugs, beads, portable USB devices, fruits and vegetables, bacon, fing. . .no wait. Wasting good bacon like that is also a hard limit. Did you know you can make Bacon Vodka? Ahem, moving on. . .

SOFT LIMITS

- Enemas. I still think they are really icky, but can see how they might serve a purpose.

- Doing stuff that could get me arrested but I do not consider immoral. (So the usual stuff is still a hard limit, like children and animals and assault and murder and etc) I don't want to go to jail, but I'm a libertine and a libertarian; some rules are made to be broken. There's gotta be a damn good reason to risk it though.

- Photography. I am not in the closet to anyone about my lifestyle, but I will be damned if I let nasty photos of me show up on the internet. This is listed as a soft limit because I would be more than happy to pose for artistic erotic photography, and have actually always wanted to; I don't care if beautiful photos of me show up on the internet! Even then, though, I own that memory card, and it will not leave my sight while it is in any photographer's possession. I control distribution of said photos. Candid shots from cell phones and digital cameras are right out.

- Really hardcore CBT. A little light predicament play (humblers, rope bondage, stretchers etc) is fine, but the really hardcore stuff makes me cringe. If I kick you in the balls, you have either really really really pissed me off, or I feel threatened and am defending myself. If I crush your balls in a vise, it means I hate you and have lost the ability to express that sentiment rationally and you should RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Same deal if I actually take a sharp thing (needle, knife) to your cock; if I'm threatening to cut it off, I won't be kidding. That just doesn't seem like a good idea, even in a mindfuck scene. Kind of like how you don't point a gun at someone unless you are actually ready to pull the trigger.

- Stuff on my face. I really hate stuff on/in my face. As a sub I have safeworded when a dominant would not let me wipe off my face. As a Domme, I will halt a scene to clean up if my face gets messy. If you're a sloppy kisser I won't let you kiss me. I don't even like water on my face without the ability to wipe it off with a towel. It also means I'm not real excited about cunnilingus, which I know makes me a total drag to the ladies.

- If you don't cuddle I am not interested.

- Long Distance Relationships. I lack the focus to maintain this sort of relationship. It's a soft limit because I don't like to say never. My soulmate could live in Russia, maybe. Or Wyoming.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I have other limits as a sub, but those are my Domme limits. I'm going to go make bacon now.

(FR)

(in reply to Nineveh)

Post #: 55

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