RE: Christianity & BDSM (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master



Message


Domoveryou13 -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/12/2008 1:46:01 PM)

Christianity and the lifestyle are not mutually exclusive - Christ showed the ultimate submission - and a true D/ has the best interests of the /s at heart.




masterfixer -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/13/2008 12:16:32 PM)

the bible is a terrible whip unless you put a rope on it




Imaticklor2005 -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/15/2008 5:17:21 AM)

Lol funny how a thread like this always leads into a pissing contest sooner or later.
From what i'v read theres alot of smart and insightfull people here.
In your own way most of you are right and everybody has their own views,opinions and beliefs that must be respected.
I dont like to make things harder or more difficult then they are so with all good books and words aside it comes down to this.From the beginning of time and before that theres always been the desire to dominate or be dominated with all creatures.You can write down all you want in the meantime and compair and interperate all you want but you just cant change the nature of the beast.Always been like that and always will be.




sirguym -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/15/2008 8:45:09 AM)

The bible is what's left after a huge number of disparate people wrote an extensive body of unconnected literature over thousands of years. Most of it was randomly forgotten, burned in warfare, by accident or because someone disliked it. Much of it has been deliberately left out because it gave a message contrary to the current political line, or maliciously rewritten by other men because they did not agree with it, for immediate personal or political gain. Parts of it have been mistranslated through a half-dozen languages. Much of it is still contradicted by other bits of it elsewhere and most of it is patent and obvious nonsense.

There is still wisdom in it, and bits of it are a good guide to living life as it was usual to live in a peasant village 1,000 or more years ago. Which is not a bad model for some 'traditional' D/s relationships.

This is still some things left in that are more widely relevant today, even to an atheist like me.

But holy writ? Sacred text? utter ****** rubbish, just like all the other compilations from superstition soup, the Torah, the Quoran, the Hindu and Sikh scriptures.

None of them can be taken literally, or assumed to be 'fundamental' because they are all rehashes of other people's ideas or notions and there is nothing special in any one of them that makes them any more holy than a pulp-fiction novel.

There is no God. And if there was one they'd not talk to the deluded fools and rational hypocrites that make up the bigotry of God-botherers.

BDSM is not a theory, it is just an honest style of relationship where the power transfers and exchanges are explicityly recognised for what they are.

Not tiptoed around or assumed, presumed, imposed, taken for granted, alluded to in  words that disguise their true nature or otherwise  obscured.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToHonorObey

Before Christianity? That would only be about 2000 years ago. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1:1.  Even the Greatest Almighty God refers to the existence of other gods lesser than Him, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:2, which would not be possible if there were no other gods. As kinkypuppy2 states, the bible has been a target of change. Changing anything from it's purest form is the equivalent of corruption, which every bible ever translated has suffered as many of the scriptures which bibles have been translated from suffered the same consequences of corruption, as well as the minds translating them. Without there being a one true all powerful mighty spirit, "God" as it is most commonly referred to, then the entire theory of D/s could not exist, for gods taking turns being masters undermines the entire concept of dominance and all gods would be switches.  It was my error to refer to the bible as the foundation instead of the spirit that inspired it.




bipolarber -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/15/2008 11:09:28 AM)

My views on using fiction as the basis for your life has been more than adequately detailed on other parts of this site.




ToHonorObey -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/22/2008 6:09:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

My views on using fiction as the basis for your life has been more than adequately detailed on other parts of this site.
  Gor is the center of a science fiction series, a fictional world of alternate reality, and the model for a collected philosophy. It is one or all of these things, and even more, to the thousands of fans which have come to be somehow involved in this imaginary land and its ways.http://www.geocities.com/gorean_community/gorone.html
 

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:3

Does evil exist?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
That young man's name was Albert Einstien
http://forums.film.com/showthread.php?t=24942




Aylee -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/23/2008 9:44:37 AM)

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp


Sheesh!  Resorting to Urban Legends.

Sheesh!




sirguym -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/23/2008 12:05:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp


Sheesh!  Resorting to Urban Legends.

Sheesh!


Squelch! Very well done!




ToHonorObey -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 1:42:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp


Sheesh!  Resorting to Urban Legends.

Sheesh!
 
The effort to disclaim an "urban myth" by elaborating on the origins, developments, and definitions of "urban myths" in a manner which attempts to dispel most, if not all, "urban myths" as falsehoods, is a logical response to the "urban myth" of what, supposedly, Einstien may, or may not have said, if one is unable to win a Nobel prize by convincingly rewriting the laws of physics pertaining to heat and light, and then apply those principles to Einstien's logic of evil being the absence of love, or more specifically, the love of "God." The kind of love, which to some was, is, and will always be, best expressed by the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, of which there are very many accounts aside from those popularized by the New Testament. To some, it seems highly unlikely that such a large proportion of functionally literate witnesses from that short span of time could all have been simultaneously hallucinating and still maintain the capacity to perform legible penmanship. It is understandable why the many atheists are pointing a finger and cursing at the theists because many of the theists are pointing a finger and cursing at the atheists, as both sides attempt to discredit each other. By doing so, considering their stand on this issue, being human, theists will, at one time or another, display a somewhat greater degree of hypocrisy by lack of "practicing what they preach," thereby making their "God" even less appealing to anyone that appears to be undecided whether a "God" even exists at all. Where did love come from? Somewhere on earth? How many species kill their mates or their offspring after conception? Humans do. Since the very beginning of the evolution of mankind, exactly when did humans begin being nice to strangers, then how and for what reason? By studying monkeys? If so, then when and where did the notions of dog eat dog, the law of the jungle, and only the strong survive originate, then when, to what, and to whom do they apply? Which came first, cruelty or conscience? Without cruelty, would there be neccessity for a conscience? Do ancient Egyptian wall carvings prove that those artistic Egyptians were the first to perform circumcisions? No, those carvings only prove that they were the first to engrave that procedure into a wall. Does "Thou shalt not make any graven image" ring a bell? Have Gandhi, Mother Theresa, or others that promoted spiritualism, love, and charity also been subjects of "urban myths"? Or would they had to have attended a university and proved a professor wrong to qualify? Does anytime a student anywhere proves any teacher wrong about anything automatically become an "urban myth" because the teacher is always right? Following the course of that argument, it is possible that the lifestyle promoted by this website may someday also become the subject of an "urban myth," but in one or two hundred years, will anybody care whether it even existed or not? If it is illegal to spank a child under three years old, how long before the minimum age to inflict pain of any kind on another reaches twenty-one and requires passing an educational course to obtain a permit either to give or receive? The U.S. Constitution calls for a separation of "church" and "state," yet, ironically, the "church" is slowly becoming the "state," (or is it the other way around?) until one day when the U.S. Constitution might also become an "urban myth." If an atheist wants to fire a shot at my belief in "God," don't be surprised if one day we might be firing more than rhetoric from the same side at something that endangers us both, the "church" and the "state." http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html




Aylee -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 2:46:49 AM)

quote:

The effort to disclaim an "urban myth" by elaborating on the origins, developments, and definitions of "urban myths" in a manner which attempts to dispel most, if not all, "urban myths" as falsehoods, is a logical response to the "urban myth" of what, supposedly, Einstien may, or may not have said, if one is unable to win a Nobel prize by convincingly rewriting the laws of physics pertaining to heat and light, and then apply those principles to Einstien's logic of evil being the absence of love, or more specifically, the love of "God."


I want a Venn Diagram.  Really.  Will all this "logic" that you are claiming and throwing around.  Do you know what the term means, or are you merely using it for the emotional semantic content? 

Einstien, your appeal to authority, had to use proofs in his work.  You are throwing out emotion charged subjective words. 

As far as the urban myth issue, it was just easier to link to snopes, rather than point out that your story was indeed false and then list the fallacies with it:

Irrelevent Conclusion, argumentum ad populum--appeal to the majority
Fallacy of the Consequent
Begging the Question
Fallacy of False Cause, Non Sequitor
Fallacy of Composition
Fallacy of Misplaced Concretion
Argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam  (Formal Fallacy)

You might also try using paragraphs. 

What you have done, is start a thread with a premise, and now, you have started arguing a different premise.  (Actually you have moved through a few premises.) 

Not only that, you are setting up straw man and slippery slope arguments. 

Yes, we all realize that you believe in some sort of spiritual authority.  And now you are using anecdotes and proverbs to prove this.  Save yourself some time and look up the word "faith." 

If your point is to find converts, I would suggest a faith-based religions board may be more to your liking.  If your point is to discuss the merits and applicability of the old testament over the new testament, I would suggest a faith-based religions board.  If your point is to spout more "one-true-wayism's," I would suggest blogging or journaling. 

If you choose to not take these suggestions, than I shall continue to snicker at you.

Remember, the Hard Return is YOUR friend. 




sirguym -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 5:32:25 AM)

Bigotry gets you ignored; which is why the bigots so often need guns and explosives to 'prove' the strength of their arguments!




ThunderRoad -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 6:06:34 AM)

There is mathmatical proof that women are evil. Allow me to explain.

First we state that women require time and money.

   Women=Time x Money

And as we all know, "Time is money"

    Time=Money

Therefore:

   Women=Money x Money= Money^2

And because "money is the root of all evil":

    Money=Evil

Therefore:

   Women=(Evil)^2

And we are forced to conclude that:

   Women=Evil
   




ToHonorObey -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 6:44:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I want a Venn Diagram.  Really.  Will all this "logic" that you are claiming and throwing around.  Do you know what the term means, or are you merely using it for the emotional semantic content? 



quote:


You might also try using paragraphs. 


quote:


Einstien, your appeal to authority, had to use proofs in his work.  You are throwing out emotion charged subjective words. 



quote:


Irrelevent Conclusion, argumentum ad populum--appeal to the majority
Fallacy of the Consequent
Begging the Question
Fallacy of False Cause, Non Sequitor
Fallacy of Composition
Fallacy of Misplaced Concretion
Argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam  (Formal Fallacy)

Last I knew, nobody had a copyright on latin.

My Venn Diagram would probably look something like this http://education.jlab.org/qa/atom_model_03.gif minus the two outer circles, but actually I would rather spend my time finishing up skinning that red tailed boa in the back of my truck, putting my '65 panhead back together, or modifying a full face helmet in preparation for crashing a car through a burning house trailor this coming November.  The debate of whether Einstien made that quote or not basically amounts to not much more than the "he said-she said" form of gossip which is widely used mostly by spinsters, desperate housewives, little old ladies with nothing better to do, and the men who adore them. Whether he said that or not does not make the statement any less true, obviously that thought originated somewhere at some time, or it would not have be possible to write it down, much like those latin quotes, as those arguments can just as easilly be applied unto themselves. Concerning beginning from one premise and jumping to another and another, considering how nearly every particle is based on a similar molecular struture, the further one gets away from a certain point in one direction, the closer one gets to that same point from another. And while I'm at it, my belief that the words "Jesus" and "Lord" are rooted in blaspheme don't make me very popular with the "religious" crowds either. So there, I've just alienated myself from most everybody with arguments from both sides.Will I lose any sleep over that? No.The only person that can make that happen spends hours each day in here and I was hoping to somehow comminicate with her.  One of my favorite things to do is make people laugh and it has been a pleasure to provide you with yours and she with hers as well.




AquaticSub -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 8:56:39 AM)

~Fast Reply~

The Bible is, as are all religious documents IMO, divinely inspired but always flawed. They are not printed by Angels and sent to us from Heaven, they are written by men and women who are also flawed. The Bible suggests dashing babies' heads in, selling daughters into slavery, stoning bad children to death, contradicts itself (in one passage it says to forgive and love the adultress, in others it says to kill her), says to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath and Corthinians (New Testment) says both that no man should near a woman when she is on her period and that no man should have long hair.

Let's also not forget that all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord and that wearing a polycotton blend is a sin as evil as breaking any of the "big ten". Because of this, I have never regarded the Holy Book to be anything more than a guideline for life that must be looked at, as with all historical documents, the lens of the day. You have to decode which were simply laws reflecting the culture of the time and the lack of knowledge. I felt this way when I was Christian and, even though I'm switching religions, I still feel this way.

Now, all this a given, I definately don't believe that the Bible and Christianity is the foundation for d/s. You could make a much better argument, IMO, that Judaism was as Jewish marriages involve actual contracts that spell out the terms of the marriage. Either way I wouldn't buy it but as least you've got the contracts and you get to keep most of the slavery bits of the Bible.




EXODUS1 -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 9:05:51 AM)

quote:

~Fast Reply~

The Bible is, as are all religious documents IMO, divinely inspired but always flawed. They are not printed by Angels and sent to us from Heaven, they are written by men and women who are also flawed. The Bible suggests dashing babies' heads in, selling daughters into slavery, stoning bad children to death, contradicts itself (in one passage it says to forgive and love the adultress, in others it says to kill her), says to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath and Corthinians (New Testment) says both that no man should near a woman when she is on her period and that no man should have long hair.

Let's also not forget that all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord and that wearing a polycotton blend is a sin as evil as breaking any of the "big ten". Because of this, I have never regarded the Holy Book to be anything more than a guideline for life that must be looked at, as with all historical documents, the lens of the day. You have to decode which were simply laws reflecting the culture of the time and the lack of knowledge. I felt this way when I was Christian and, even though I'm switching religions, I still feel this way.

Now, all this a given, I definately don't believe that the Bible and Christianity is the foundation for d/s. You could make a much better argument, IMO, that Judaism was as Jewish marriages involve actual contracts that spell out the terms of the marriage. Either way I wouldn't buy it but as least you've got the contracts and you get to keep most of the slavery bits of the Bible.

 
You must be about 2000 years old. WoW
 
I can't say that the Bible is Flawed,
I didn't live back then, when they where
documenting the events.
 
Exodus1[sm=book.gif]






Aylee -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 9:15:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderRoad

There is mathmatical proof that women are evil. Allow me to explain.

First we state that women require time and money.

  Women=Time x Money

And as we all know, "Time is money"

   Time=Money

Therefore:

  Women=Money x Money= Money^2

And because "money is the root of all evil":

   Money=Evil

Therefore:

  Women=(Evil)^2

And we are forced to conclude that:

  Women=Evil
  



Ha ha.

The quote is:  "For the love of money. . ."

And it only works if you change the meaning of the word "root."

Very cute, although I have seen it before. 




Aylee -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 9:20:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirguym

Bigotry gets you ignored; which is why the bigots so often need guns and explosives to 'prove' the strength of their arguments!


Wow!  Now I am a bigot.  That is almost as good as being called a Nazi. 

I am not sure how you came to this conclusion.  Yes I did say that this was not the best venue for a discussion on proof that there is a higher spiritual authority.  But that is not bigotry, merely giving information. 

Nor is bigotry pointing out flaws in an argument or suggesting the use of the hard return. 

But, hey, I figure I am now well on my way to being dazzeled by the glittering tinsel of neo-fascism. 

Actually, it is the shiny boots that I like.




AquaticSub -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 9:25:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EXODUS1


You must be about 2000 years old. WoW
 
I can't say that the Bible is Flawed,
I didn't live back then, when they where
documenting the events.
 
Exodus1[sm=book.gif]





If the Bible were a perfect document, it would not contradict itself. If the Bible were a perfect document, the fundamentalist Christians would not have disregarded the rules that do not suit them.

I have yet to meet a woman who politely informs her boss, husband, neighbors, sons, etc that she can not attend work, stay in the same house, attend the neighbor meeting, take her son to soccer practice, help with Sunday school or attend a PTA meeting because she has her period. If it is a perfect document, with every word being true, then no Christian may ignore any rule. They would all apply.




Aylee -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 10:26:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToHonorObey


Last I knew, nobody had a copyright on latin.


Okay.  What is your point?  Or is this a pitiful attempt at mockery for someone using Latin? 

quote:

My Venn Diagram would probably look something like this http://education.jlab.org/qa/atom_model_03.gif minus the two outer circles


That is not a Venn Diagram. 

quote:

, but actually I would rather spend my time finishing up skinning that red tailed boa in the back of my truck, putting my '65 panhead back together, or modifying a full face helmet in preparation for crashing a car through a burning house trailor this coming November. 


And you have pointed this out why?  Or is it just to show that you have much more important things to do than to make a coherant arguement?  Dead snakes waiting and all.

quote:

The debate of whether Einstien made that quote or not basically amounts to not much more than the "he said-she said" form of gossip which is widely used mostly by spinsters, desperate housewives, little old ladies with nothing better to do, and the men who adore them.


Now we get to it.  Your inner misogyny.  You hate women. 

quote:

Whether he said that or not does not make the statement any less true, 


Did you READ the link?  The story is not based in fact at all.  It is a morals story about an athiest professor recieving his comeuppance.  Like the other examples, it is a faith versus learning/knowledge, story. 

quote:

obviously that thought originated somewhere at some time, or it would not have be possible to write it down,


Yes, and I have just explained why it was.  To give believers a warm-fuzzy-feeling that all is right in their world.  A sense of moral superiority.  It is based on lies, but what the hay. 

quote:

much like those latin quotes, as those arguments can just as easilly be applied unto themselves.


Latin quotes?  Those are the actual technical terms. 

For someone who has "etymological revelations," you have some learning to do.

quote:

Concerning beginning from one premise and jumping to another and another, considering how nearly every particle is based on a similar molecular struture, the further one gets away from a certain point in one direction, the closer one gets to that same point from another.


No they are not.  Do you even know the difference between atomic structure and molecular structure?  And all elements do not even have similar atomic structures. 

I think that you are jumping from premise to premise because you cannot back any of your premises up.  For example, you have just brought up molecular structure when your thread started with etymology. 

quote:

And while I'm at it, my belief that the words "Jesus" and "Lord" are rooted in blaspheme don't make me very popular with the "religious" crowds either.


Yes well, running around calling people a heretic does tend to get on people's nerves.  But really, I think that this is another of your cop-outs.  There are many, many, faith-based forums, and I am sure that there is one that would share your beliefs. 

quote:

So there,


Did you stamp your foot? 

quote:

I've just alienated myself from most everybody with arguments from both sides.


And you seem proud of this.  Of course you are dividing the world (and the more than 6 billion people in it) into women (whom you despise), heretics/blasphemers, and you.  I can see why you are lonely.

quote:

Will I lose any sleep over that? No.


Of course not.  You are Mister moral high ground.  If someone points out that you are incorrect, you will just keep changing the subject.  Strength by confusion!  YAY!

quote:

The only person that can make that happen spends hours each day in here and I was hoping to somehow comminicate with her.


You want to communicate with some one that will make you lose sleep?  What for?  Do you have nacrolepsy? 

I know that this idea will sound crazy, but you just might try writing her a letter.  Or does she have you blocked already?

Seriously, if you were trying to gain my affection and attention, behaving like a dalmation on meth with your "discussion" is not going to do it.  Not being able to remain on topic, not knowing where the magic "enter" key is, making misogynist comments, and making up facts and definitions for words is just not attractive. 

I have lost count of the topics that you have introduced in this one post. 

quote:

 One of my favorite things to do is make people laugh and it has been a pleasure to provide you with yours and she with hers as well.


So this was all a joke? 

I do not believe you.  You wanted to prove something.  You could not.  And so now you are making excuses.  It is rather lame. 




MissSCD -> RE: Christianity & BDSM (3/26/2008 10:38:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToHonorObey

Having a certain spirit inspire me to read each and every word of the King James Bible at least thirty times over the course of the past twenty-five years, in addition to my first complete reading of the apocropha and experiencing certain etymological revelations this past year, concerning specific words appearing most prevelantly in the Bible, has led me to an interpretation which is very radical in relation to anything remotely connected to "christianity," "christians" and  "christian" "churches," and that does include all of them!  My belief that the entire concept of the Bible is the very foundation of the correlation between dominance and submission is what has compelled this post.


I tend to agree that some of the stories in the Bible represent D/s activities.   I have been a Christian all my life, and it has caused me to "think" very carefully about what I do and how I do it. 
What I do not tend to agree with is that it is Male orientated with the Female being submissive.
Jesus more or less stated we are all to be submissive to him.  That is where I stand on it.  In my opinion, we are all created equal with the exception of the Power Exchange.  The Power Exchange defines the relationship. 
 
Regards, MissSCD




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875