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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 7:10:17 PM   
MrSpectacular


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Just repeating what a lot have said already.
Anger is a perfectly valid emotion - an emotion that is pretty difficult to suppress. You may not have an angry outburst -but your face is going to portray what you feel.
I also don't think the anger goes away unless it is addressed in some way. It may get suppressed or put away - but over time it builds and can grow into resentment. Talking from experience here not preaching.
Subs who are angry have a more difficult time expressing their feelings - or at least they can do - but for me a key to any successful relationship is that communication is fundamental to create a healthy dynamic. Both sub and dom need to work on that communication.



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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 7:53:31 PM   
DesFIP


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If he fucks up, I won't feel anger. But I would be if he didn't take responsibility for his actions afterwards. I make mistakes, he makes mistakes, that's part of being human. And so is giving a sincere apology.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 8:58:54 PM   
awakenednj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

And I thank Awakened for bringing such a poingant issue to the table and showing how Ds does not in any way allow us to avoid these issues or be any less complex just because one person is in authority and the other isn't.


Thanks Lucky!!! Makes me very happy to know my thought are appreciated :)

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 9:10:36 PM   
awakenednj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

why do subs feel they aren't supposed to feel anger or disappointment or anything negative in connection with their dominant?  i have never understood the concept.


And here ya hit on why i posted this in the first place. For some reason I have no explaination for I do feel like I'm not suppose to have any negative emotions toward him, and that i did was very distressing to me. He didn't tell me I couldn't or anything... After reading eveyone's replies, and thinking on it, I think maybe it's because somewhere in that illogical land of emotion I feel that if  I balk at anything I must be trying to take hte control back??? And since that's not really what I want i am distressed at the thought of it...... That's not quite it, but it has something to do with it.... This is a whole new world to me and i am still rather confused...

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 9:27:17 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I am expected to be a person as well as a submissive.
If a dom wants no anger but also expects 'complete honesty', well...he can't have both...
If you've ever taken even a basic psychology class, you will know that there is a reason for anger, everyone feels it, and it is necessary and normal.
I think someone who posted earlier was correct. Anger is unavoidable, how you express it is yours to control.
(unless you're a fiery french redhead...then...all bets are off)
I have not read all of the replies, but this answer makes sense to me...we are human, we do experience anger ,on whatever level...however, in order to have a relationship with open communication and  honesty you have to verbalize your feelings and the why of it..the way I see it ,as expressed here, is that it entirely depends on how you express it..anger can be expressed respectfully and you still keep the honest and open communication that is sought by many in their D/s dynamics...otherwise if you are not allowed to feel anger and yet you experience it, even briefly, then would your tendency be, to not communicate this..and thus make a mockery of the open honesty, and communication being demanded???..Tempting

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 10:58:30 PM   
Maestro66babycak


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

1. Sure, the one going outside the relationship bears the most responsibility for the immediate action... but the action is a symptom of an underlying problem in the relationship. 


2. If you don't tell him how he hurt you, then you are witholding necessary information.  If you try to punish him for making an honest mistake, then you will not just be damaging him.


Redmagic1,
1.  You can not say that is true about every relationship.My Masters Infidelity is due to his desire to have sex with as many women as possible before he dies. It has absolutely nothing to do with underlying things. It is a contest with him, which frankly, hurts me to the core but I am learning how to deal with the emotions his cheating causes.
 
2. In my situation it is not an honest mistake when he hurts me, unless you call not being honest on purpose a mistake. I am a fiery redhead and my temper is very difficult to control, especially if my feelings are hurt on top of the anger.  You are right about " punishing him punishes you " , been there done that -hate the results.
 Master Jess will never change so I have to, or leave, and I AIN'T LEAVING!
 
Awakenednj ,
 I Have never had any training on anger management so I am ( unfortunately) trying to control my anger and my outbursts by sheer will power. I hate this. Truly I do. I was always beaten when I was a child whenever I expressed anger towards my father or mother which made me angrier. I did not learn how to deal with the anger then so I am having to improvise now.
 Anger control is difficult for me because my anger turns almost instantly into rage when I am not allowed to express my feelings. Master Jess doesn't know how to teach me to control my anger. When he is angry with me, he punishes me and calls me bad names. So while he gets to express his anger towards me I am never allowed to express mine towards him. Last week he was having sex with a woman that He knows I absolutely hate and he lied about it. I did not , however fly off the handle. I got my anger and hurt under control and calmly told him that I knew that he had lied to me and that I knew where he was that night. That is the first time I have ever confronted him when there was a positive outcome. He got really quiet for a little while. Then asked me what I wanted , by saying "and?" so I said (calmly), "and I would appreciate it if you would not lie to me in the future please Sir."  Believe it or not ( I could hardly believe it myself) Master  agreed, then smiled his sexy little grin at me and said, " I am training a married woman on Sunday." Which was a major thing for him to say and  for me to not react badly. I of course asked who it was and he said , " someone you don't know about."  sigh... at least he was honest for a change. 
 
Was I angry at him for "training" this woman- oh yes- because training for him means having sex.
 
Did I yell and scream and cry and whine? No I didn't ... Did I want to? HELL YES. ....sigh... baby steps....baby steps...
 
Awakened, I hope this helps you in some way, to see that you are not alone ( although you prolly aren't psycho like me, ;) ). I hope that me spilling my guts about how I am trying to control my anger has helped you . If it has not helped in any way, then I apologize for such a lengthly post.
Anyway....Hugs Awakened I know that your struggle with anger can be difficult . I want you to know that I am 100 % pulling for you to do well and please your Master. If you read my latest journal post you will see that the day this happened  turned out to be a VERY GOOD DAY.
Respectfully,
babycakes

< Message edited by Maestro66babycak -- 3/1/2008 11:04:59 PM >


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RE: Angry with Master - 3/1/2008 11:34:58 PM   
silvermuse


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Right or wrong anger is an emotion all human beings feel at some point in their lives. So feeling it isn't the issue in many cases (though it would appear to be in CP's case) but how that anger then manifests.

I've got a strong temper. I've struggled with it through all of my life. I do my best to keep it under control and prevent issues from growing out of hand.

That's done in many ways.

Asking to take a step back away from him so I can gather my thoughts and work through what I'm feeling. That normally means going into another room so I can do that without a problem.

If it's time of month/change of life I have a homeopathic I take that takes the edge off that anger and we also both take steps to avoid issues and passionate discussions that might launch into an argument at that time.

Telling him. "Master, I'm angry/upset with you about..." and saying it calmly is better than hissing, growling and throwing things.

But when all's said and done there are going to be times when I am angry at him and lying at about it won't help. Prime example. I had a deadline. Big major edit deadline. I cannot edit around the UM's as it requires a level of concentration that isn't possible when I'm dealing with cups shoves in face and constant 'but mummmmm'. I'd told him the deadline, explained I needed edit time and waited 7 days for said time. By the time I was down to my last day to get these done and get them in, or have a very upset editor to deal with, I was angry with every right to be so (failure to meet edit deadlines can result in no more work, or even -depending on contract - finacial penalities). It took me getting angry and even trying to do the edits around said UM's and managing 10 pages in 5 hours before he finally realized I was deadly serious about this.

He's a Master, not a god. He's going to make F'ups' and there are times I'm going to be angry at him especially if they can effect my career, a career he has told me to go for.

So I don't believe it's wrong for a submissive or slave to be human and feel anger toward their Master if their Master has done something to warrant that. I do believe that how that anger is handled can be wrong.

silvermuse

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/2/2008 4:22:59 AM   
HerLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Anger isn't really the issue - it is how it is dealt with and how one reacts that matters to Darcy.
 
the.dark.

There is just soooo much wrong with the responses in this thread, I absolutely HAD to stay out of it. Now, I can no longer keep my mouth shut. Some of this has been expressed in other words, but here are mine.
 
The Dark. You have expressed very eloquently my intent. TY
 
To more completly express my thoughts on the matter. Anger can be an opportunity for growth and change. To consider denying a base emotion in ones self, (anger) is to allow dishonesty to fester within a base ideology of ourselves. As all here are apt to scream about, HONESTY is BASE REQUIREMENT for any relationship.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/2/2008 5:02:37 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awakenednj

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

why do subs feel they aren't supposed to feel anger or disappointment or anything negative in connection with their dominant?  i have never understood the concept.


And here ya hit on why i posted this in the first place. For some reason I have no explaination for I do feel like I'm not suppose to have any negative emotions toward him, and that i did was very distressing to me. He didn't tell me I couldn't or anything... After reading eveyone's replies, and thinking on it, I think maybe it's because somewhere in that illogical land of emotion I feel that if  I balk at anything I must be trying to take hte control back??? And since that's not really what I want i am distressed at the thought of it...... That's not quite it, but it has something to do with it.... This is a whole new world to me and i am still rather confused...




I think this fits in nicely with something we were discussing at home the other day. We were talking about what makes us who we are our motivations etc etc. I admitted to enjoying biting people etc and Sirs slave was horrified, she said that she could never hurt someone she cared about that it would make her not submissive etc etc. Not only is that crap and really offended me but also it is her own self denial. She is far more sadistic than I am but she refuses to admit it to herself because of this perfect idealised version of submission that she has in her head. When we read posts from people who feel submission in a certain way, that deny anything negative it makes us question our own submission and I think that is where this question has arisen from. A fear that feeling anger towards your Dominant makes you less submissive. Sometimes it is ideas like this that scare me. On the one hand it is an in built desire to improve ourselves, to become better and that is good. On the other hand we are still only capable of what we are capable of and a desire to be something else will only hurt us. It is a case of recognising our own feelings, accepting them and then realising it doesnt deminish our feelings of submission or our respect for our Dominant it is simply part of being alive.


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RE: Angry with Master - 3/2/2008 8:40:37 AM   
antipode


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I tend to think that subs, doms, and what-have-you are people too. And a D/s situation is a relationship. So - it happens, whether it is justified or not is a question that is as appropriate in a "vanilla" relationship as it is here. Anger (someone else here descibes it as an emotion) is actually a communication method, and as such asks the participants to take some kind of action. Without knowing the exact parameters of your relationship, history, agreements, etc., your question is otherwise hard to answer, this type of stuff is highly subjective.

I would say that anger isn't justifiable, nor is it wrong, it simply is, and you have to deal with it, even if that means you decide not to.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/2/2008 9:41:10 AM   
xxblushesxx


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Is anger an emotion?

Anger is a completely normal, and usually healthy, human emotion. But when it gets out of control and turns destructive, it can lead to problems: problems at work, in your personal relationships, and in the overall quality of your life. And it can make you feel as though you're at the mercy of an unpredictable and powerful emotion.
What is Anger?
Anger is an emotional state that varies in intensity from mild irritation to intense fury and rage. Like other emotions, it is accompanied by physiological and biological changes; when you get angry, your heart rate and blood pressure go up, and so does the level of your energy hormones, adrenalin and noradrenalin.
Anger can be caused by external or internal events. You could be angry at a specific person (such as a coworker or supervisor) or event (a traffic jam, a canceled flight), or your anger could be caused by worrying or brooding about your personal problems. Memories of traumatic or enraging events can also trigger angry feelings.
Expressing Anger
The instinctive, natural way to express anger is to respond aggressively. Anger is a natural, adaptive response to threats; it inspires powerful, often aggressive, feelings and behaviors that allow us to fight and defend ourselves when we are attacked. A certain amount of anger, therefore, is necessary to our survival.
On the other hand, we can't physically lash out at every person or object that irritates or annoys us. Laws, social norms, and common sense place limits on how far we should let our anger take us.
People use a variety of both conscious and unconscious processes to deal with their angry feelings. The three main approaches are expressing, suppressing, and calming.
Expressing your angry feelings in an assertive -- not aggressive -- manner is the healthiest way to express anger. To do this, you have to learn how to make clear what your needs are, and how to get them met, without hurting others. Being assertive doesn't mean being pushy or demanding; it means being respectful of yourself and others.
Another approach is to suppress anger and then convert or redirect it. This happens when you hold in your anger, stop thinking about it, and focus on something positive to do instead. The aim is to inhibit or suppress your anger and convert it into more constructive behavior. The danger in this type of response is that if your anger isn't allowed outward expression, it can turn inward--on yourself. Anger turned inward may cause hypertension, high blood pressure, or depression.
Unexpressed anger can create other problems. It can lead to pathological expressions of anger such as passive-aggressive behavior (getting back at people indirectly, without telling them why, rather than confronting them head-on), or a perpetually cynical and hostile attitude. People who are constantly putting others down, criticizing everything, and making cynical comments haven't learned how to express their anger constructively. Not surprisingly, they aren't likely to have many successful relationships.
Finally, you can calm yourself down inside. This means not just controlling your outward behavior, but also controlling your internal responses, taking steps to lower your heart rate, calm yourself down, and let the feelings subside.
Anger Management
The goal of anger management is to reduce both your emotional feelings and the physiological arousal that anger causes. You can't get rid of or avoid the things or people that enrage you, nor can you change them; but you can learn to control your reactions.
Are You Too Angry?
There are psychological tests that measure the intensity of angry feelings, how prone to anger you are, and how well you handle it. But chances are good that if you do have a problem with anger, you already know it. If you find yourself acting in ways that seem out of control and frightening, you might need help finding better ways to deal with this emotion.
Why Are Some People More Angry Than Others?
Some people are really more 'hotheaded' than others; they get angry more easily and more intensely than the average person. There are also those who don't show their anger in loud spectacular ways but are chronically irritable and grumpy. Easily angered people don't always curse and throw things; sometimes they withdraw socially, sulk, or get physically ill.
People who are easily angered generally have what some psychologists call a low tolerance for frustration, meaning simply that they feel that they should not have to be subjected to frustration, inconvenience, or annoyance. They can't take things in stride, and they're particularly infuriated if the situation seems somehow unjust: for example, when they are corrected for a minor mistake.
What makes these people this way? A number of things. One cause may be genetic or physiological; there is evidence that some children are born irritable, touchy, and easily angered, and that these signs are present from a very early age. Another may be how we're taught to deal with anger. Anger is often regarded as negative; many of us are taught that it's all right to express anxiety, depression, or other emotions, but not to express anger. As a result, we don't learn how to handle it or channel it constructively.
Research has also found that family background plays a role. Typically, people who are easily angered come from families that are disruptive, chaotic, and not skilled at emotional communication.
Is It Good to 'Let It All Hang Out'?
Psychologists now say that this is a dangerous myth. Some people use this theory as a license to hurt others. Research has found that 'letting it rip' with anger actually escalates anger and aggression and does nothing to help you (or the person you're angry with) resolve the situation.
It's best to find out what it is that triggers your anger, and then develop strategies to keep those triggers from toppling you over the edge.
Do You Need Counseling?
If you feel that your anger is really out of control, if it is having an impact on your relationships and on important parts of your life, you might consider counseling to learn how to handle it better. A psychologist or other licensed mental health professional can work with you in developing a range of techniques for changing your thinking and your behaviors.
When you talk to a prospective therapist, tell her or him that you have problems with anger that you want to work on, and ask about his or her approach to anger management. Make sure this isn't only a course of action designed to help you 'get in touch with your feelings and express them' That may be precisely your problem.
With counseling, psychologists say, a highly angry person can move closer to a middle range of anger in about 8 to 10 weeks, depending on the circumstances and the counseling techniques used.
Thanks to Charles Spielberger, Ph.D., of the University of South Florida in Tampa; and to Jerry Deffenbacher, Ph.D., of Colorado State University in Ft. Collins, Colorado, a psychologist who specializes in anger management.

This is found; http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=29

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/3/2008 11:56:43 AM   
NicholasLeather


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Submissives are still human - and it's possible to have anger and still have respect.  In fact, this runs both ways, and is important even in a vanilla relationship.

I'm in the process of collaring a sub now, and part of that process for me is that I gave her a leather bound journal to write in.  In this journal, she is required to keep note of all of her orgasms, as well as notes and thoughts about any BDSM presentations she sees.  I also give her assignments, as I'm trying to map out the way this relationship will work between us.  One of the most important aspects of the journal is that it allows her to interact with me in a way that is nonconfrontational, introspective, and exploratory.  While I would certainly not accept her yelling at me, if she were angry I would tell her to write about it and we could begin to resolve things from there.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/3/2008 12:00:43 PM   
trusting


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it is only human to experience emotion... it is how you react to them that is the true issue. talking with Him would probably be your best step in maintaining your relationship and not blowing things out of proportion.


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RE: Angry with Master - 3/3/2008 12:18:33 PM   
Kana


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I haven't read this whole thread, but just the original post so that’s what I am going to respond to.
For me I would never expect her not to get angry from time to time.
It’s a human emotion just like anything else.
The things I do care about are how does she deal with it and how does she approach the situation with me about it. Like most people it’s usually not what someone says to me than how they go about it. In other words talking reasonably and respectfully using proper language and remaining subservient will almost always elicit a positive response. Passive aggressive outbursts, personal attacks, childish behavior and that sort of response are not acceptable no matter what. As long as something is approached tactfully and within the bounds of D/S I will listen to almost anything. What I don’t expect is for her to swallow the anger,that turns poisonous. I want to know what’s going on with her, good, bad, indifferent. Part of being a dominant is building that level of trust to a point that things can be discussed via the appropriate format. I do periodic state of the union discussions where everything can be discussed with no repercussions.   I also encourage note writing, I have found that often people can say things in a letter that they have trouble saying properly face to face, especially some submissives. It allows for the thoughts to be thought through clearly, articulated properly and also gives some space to vent but gives room for the writer to make sure she is saying exactly what she wants to say.
Personally I would want her to say what’s on her mind. I want to know how she thinks and feels and you know what, art of being a dominant is the capacity to accept constructive criticism in lots of areas from lots of people. I make mistakes all the time, sometimes I catch them, and sometimes I don't. Sometimes its things I am willing to look at and grow, sometimes its things I would like to change but for a variety of reasons (say time spent at work during a busy season and not with her) I cannot. Then there are things she is just going to have to learn to deal with or find someone else.
I don't get into power struggles with submissives and I, like everyone else, have some things about my life that I won't change regardless. It doesn't mean I am right or she is wrong, it just means we don't fit well together.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/4/2008 8:21:50 PM   
masterfixer


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I agree with colouredin.

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RE: Angry with Master - 3/4/2008 8:23:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I'd tell her to take off her clothes, get on her knees in front of me, and explain, in a respectful voice, why she is angry.

Sometimes I do fuck up, you know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: awakenednj

Is being angry with your Sir a completely unacceptable thing? What do you do if your sub/slave is angry with you?

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Profile   Post #: 76
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