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..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 10:44:33 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am a maso, I am a sadist, I top when someone I loves asks it of me, and I submit when I am in a relationship where for me, there is no other choice.

I have been pretty comfortable with this and haven't really thought about how others do things.  But last night I was chatting with a male submissive who is going to attend his first party soon.  He is excited by the possibility of being flogged and tells me it will "show him his place".  And make him feel submissive. 
Now...for me, indulging in my maso side makes me horny.  It makes me want to do anything to reach a conclusion.  Yep, I do beg to give BJ's, or to be taken.  But I never considered that feeling submissive in the scheme of my life.  Many times it seems like I am getting all the joy out of the play, even though I know it makes my partner hard.  I know that the play is great for both of us but honestly.. he is doing most of the work.  Play, makes me horny, and satisfied.  Him too, I am sure.  
I never looked at my maso side as submissive until seeing it from another persons POV. 
For you bottoms, is bondage, play, flogging, ect, submitting?
For tops, when you beat someone you know loves it, are they submitting?
Whats makes submission, submission in your eyes?
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 10:53:16 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		I've always considered "playing" to be a form of submission. After all, I'm letting the Top/Dom/me call the shots. As long as they are running the scene, I consider myself to be submissive to their desires. Those desires could be anything from giving them a massage, letting them whip the hell out of me, fucking them, or being fucked by them,or sitting down and playing bridge. It's all up to them.

If anything has bothered me about some of the "dominants" I've played with, it's their lack of strong leadership. Nothing makes a scene go "blah" faster for me than when a dominant asks me, "so, what do you want to do next?" I don't want them barking orders like a drill sargeant, but at the very least, I want them to understand that I am giving them full lisence to be as selfish as they want to be.


(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 10:56:02 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LOL yeah that bugs me too.  And for me playing bridge is more like submission.  Or watching Survivor because he likes it, even though reality tv makes me want to hurl.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

If anything has bothered me about some of the "dominants" I've played with, it's their lack of strong leadership. Nothing makes a scene go "blah" faster for me than when a dominant asks me, "so, what do you want to do next?"


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:00:43 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

For you bottoms, is bondage, play, flogging, ect, submitting?

No

quote:


Whats makes submission, submission in your eyes?

Submission and dominance require some power and/ or authority transfer. If you transfer authority from yourself to another, you are submitting.

Enjoying impact play and the s/m part of bdsm has really nothing to do with d/s or authority transfer unless you decide it to be so.
What bottoming means to me is just in which end of the flogger I like to be. It has nothing to do with whether I'm a submissive or a dominant personality and for me it has nothing to do with who controls the scene, since we both control it 50/50


< Message edited by Viridana -- 3/2/2008 11:02:57 AM >

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:00:51 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		My submission is in engaging in whatever act he chooses, when he chooses, how he chooses, and for whatever reason he chooses.  That I might really enjoy the act is icing on the cake to him.  He enjoys my reactions; that feeds his lust.  Learning to temporarily push aside any outside influences and distractions (even if in my own mind) so that I can be totally lustful and focus only on him was part of my submission.  But he chooses what/when/how/why/where such acts take place.

That, and it's typical for him to kick things up a notch and push my envelope....just to make a point, lol. 

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:04:51 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Or watching Survivor because he likes it, even though reality tv makes me want to hurl.
Kyst


This made me laugh.  I have suffered through entire nights of LOUD infomercials while he slept.

Those take a long time to recover from, lol.

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:06:19 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Submission for me is a feeling the acts i do within that doesnt make me submissive, of course I enjoy a lot of it, but my Sir always says to me being a sub is doing the things that I dont enjoy not the ones that I do purely becauase he has asked. What i feel from submission is very differant to what his slave feels, mine is very much a desire to please him first and foremost (of course that is an aspect of hers but she has other reasons that she ranks higher) She always says to me that submission cant be defined by a list of actions or activities submission is a feeling, if you feel that you are submissive then you are and no one can invalidate your reasons for it. 

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:06:51 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		A lot of people equate play to orientation.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:07:12 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LOL OMG you poor thing.  Infomercials.. definitely on my limit list.  I have to really want to please someone to watch those.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:08:17 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I like that.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

She always says to me that submission cant be defined by a list of actions or activities submission is a feeling, if you feel that you are submissive then you are and no one can invalidate your reasons for it. 


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:10:23 AM   
AtlantaMistress


Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
For you bottoms, is bondage, play, flogging, ect, submitting?
For tops, when you beat someone you know loves it, are they submitting?
Whats makes submission, submission in your eyes?
Kyst


Ok - I am answering this as not only a Pro Domme, but also a Domme in an D/s relationship:  I do not see someone who pays to bottom an activity they enjoy as submission. I see submission as finding happiness in pleasing me - and even as a Pro I do not take sessions with "do me" boys - but only with those who seek the Power Exchange so that I decide the who, what, when, where, how and don't have to explain why. In my personal relationship - he LOVES to be trampled...and I LOVE trampling him. I see it as submission because we only do it when I WANT TO, for as long as I want to - however I want to do it. My boy may tell me his fantasies, ideas he has for a scene or sometimes I may even ask his opinion, but I ALWAYS make the final decision. I often do things he likes to reward him for all the other things he does to please me. I also had to learn what things he really didn't like, because as somewhat of a masochist with a fairly high pain threshold, he may enjoy things I would normally use as punishment - so I either deny the activities he would like - taunt him (like with trampling - make him lay on the floor, walk all around him, act like I am going to step - then walk away) and/or have him do something I know he really gets no pleasure out of or even dislikes to teach him not to do again whatever he has done - but making sure he understands why he is being punished.

Hope that answers your question!

{Edited: while writing this...see a few other posts that came in to say similar things - so obviously, this in not just my opinion, but shared by many}


< Message edited by AtlantaMistress -- 3/2/2008 11:12:38 AM >

_____________________________

Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.


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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:11:33 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		AHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh a light dawns for me.  This is probably the reason I cannot relate to play which I enjoy, being submission.  Once sex is introduced, even in a minor way, my whole being is engaged.  I don't like recognising that sex controls me, but all too often it does.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
so that I can be totally lustful and focus only on him was part of my submission. 


< Message edited by Missokyst -- 3/2/2008 11:14:51 AM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:11:34 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
She always says to me that submission cant be defined by a list of actions or activities submission is a feeling, if you feel that you are submissive then you are and no one can invalidate your reasons for it. 

While that might be true, it might get the person into trouble if they expected someone else (a dom) to agree that they are being submissive.  I've had people who were being submissive in the way they felt was right and good, and I won't deny that for them.  But they sincerely weren't being submissive to my authority and thus it wasn't submissive to me at all.

Then you get problems of expectations and understanding and all that- once again showing that just having one person who calls themself a "dom" and one person who calls themself a "sub" doesn't really make any of those relationship problems go away at all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to colouredin)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:14:14 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Good point.  I know more than a few people who believe that unless you are doing something you don't like, that it is not submitting.  My question to them has always been, what if you find someone who enjoys everything you do, simply because you want it?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

While that might be true, it might get the person into trouble if they expected someone else (a dom) to agree that they are being submissive.  I've had people who were being submissive in the way they felt was right and good, and I won't deny that for them.  But they sincerely weren't being submissive to my authority and thus it wasn't submissive to me at all.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:15:38 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
She always says to me that submission cant be defined by a list of actions or activities submission is a feeling, if you feel that you are submissive then you are and no one can invalidate your reasons for it. 

While that might be true, it might get the person into trouble if they expected someone else (a dom) to agree that they are being submissive.  I've had people who were being submissive in the way they felt was right and good, and I won't deny that for them.  But they sincerely weren't being submissive to my authority and thus it wasn't submissive to me at all.

Then you get problems of expectations and understanding and all that- once again showing that just having one person who calls themself a "dom" and one person who calls themself a "sub" doesn't really make any of those relationship problems go away at all.


Thats just compatability though isnt it? that isnt questioning your Dominance nor their submission just simply that your ideas didnt fit together. That happens in any relationship D/s or not what you want from it what you see it as etc. So if your ideas dont mix then you just say cheers see you around and try again.


_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:18:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Definitely Coloured, my point was that just because a sub FEELS they are submitting to me, does not mean I will agree, though I won't deny their own feelings.  I've known more than a few subs who come crying about the mean old nasty dom when it was somewhat apparent that it was more a compatibility and understanding of expectations problems when the sub just wanted to keep doing what they wanted and not take any responsibility.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to colouredin)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:21:39 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah well I have found that not many want to take responsibility and its one of the reasons that gossip about abusive Doms etc needs to be taken with a pinch of salt in my mind. Everyone feels an element of shame i guess when they dont fit into someone elses ideal and find it easier to place blame than just accept not everyone wants the same thing. 

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:23:34 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

LOL OMG you poor thing.  Infomercials.. definitely on my limit list.  I have to really want to please someone to watch those.
Kyst


LOL they kept me awake all night, while serving their ultimate purpose of killing his insomnia for the night.  I was allowed to nap later, but 6 hours straight of that crap doesn't leave your head quickly, lol.  Gawd, I'm having flashbacks now...

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 11:48:21 AM   
verysweet


Posts: 128
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
For you bottoms, is bondage, play, flogging, ect, submitting?
For tops, when you beat someone you know loves it, are they submitting?
Whats makes submission, submission in your eyes?
Kyst


He might do something that scares the daylights out of me, or he might drag out his belt--which is something I enjoy.  When push comes to shove, what we do and what I endure is his call.   So for me, whether I love it or hate it, I'm submitting because he's in control.   I'm not any less submissive if he's spanking me than I am if I'm enduring the violet wand. At least that's how I've always looked at it. 

There may be degrees of intensity, surely.  Degrees of my submission, no way.  YMMV


_____________________________

Poetry in devotion.

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RE: ..who is submitting? - 3/2/2008 12:22:55 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Into bondage, not pain play but I'm like you. Activities don't make me feel submissive. They're just fun. However I do know that for many people the activity and the role are connected. Either's okay as long as you both make it clear ahead of time.

The only problem I see is if he's asked to serve first to earn the reward of play. Can he be submissive and do it ahead of time or does he need the play first? Because many dommes want to first see the submissive behavior, before they will top. It isn't as much of a problem for female subs as it is for male.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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