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RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 8:26:54 PM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

heres an interesting point, When with my Dom, I personally HAVE to kneel, like during a sessions. I have bad hips from danceing for so many years. So I HAVE to kneel over the spanking bench, Standing for so long tied in one position makes my legs shakey and that dosent lend towards the edge play we do. I sit at my submisive friends feet, as its more comfortable. Also in one of our pictures of the group, Sir was standing I was kneeling and my pet at the time was laying at my feet/knees. So I suppose its just in the contexts of the situation that ones finds oneself in.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 41

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 8:27:20 PM

SixFootMaster

Posts: 829
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

On this subject of kneeling and body language, Sixfootmaster is speaking knowledgably of known phenomena. i happen to agree with him. There are many protocol and etiquette courses that, both in and out of the community drill this knowledge into you; in order to be aware of what you are (generally) unconsciously showing by your body language, recognizing what others are showing with theirs. i highly recommend any submissive (or dominant) to make at least a cursory study of body language.

On the other hand, as primal as Ds is to many of us; it's important to note that we are evolved somewhat past our "RUN FIRE!!!" origins and can get past the "image of dominance" and the "image of submission" and do what actually works for us.

Bingo, I have evolved. I didn't agree with those praying and kneeling... don't agree with a lot of cave man stuff and although studies have proven what most people think about body language... things are changing. Just because the crowd does or doesn't do it didn't influence us in partaking of our lifestyle. Just like if someone flips me off... I can take that to mean what body language others see it as... I can wave hello or feel they have wished me well. I don't have to obey the norms of society just becasue they are thought to be best because that is what most think.

I do believe the questions were more of a personal nature... what we felt.

I find it interesting that most of the domme's that answered, did not feel submissive when on their knees.

True and false. While we can control our outward and conscious reactions to body-language and day to day expressions and interactivity, we cannot directly control the operation of our subconscious. We might, for instance, choose to trust someone, despite our "gut" or "intuition" telling us they cannot be trusted. There is the reactive mind, and the active mind (or ego and ratio, for another set of terminology). These minds can be in complete disagreement at any given time - for example, many submissives will probably be familiar with the sensation of both consciously disliking or hating something, but subconciously getting pleasure from it, not an uncommon dichotomy.

In the end, we are the lords (and ladies) of our own minds and actions, so how we choose to react and present ourselves is utterly a conscious choice. So yes, both true and false.

I don't particularly find that domme's don't feel submissive on their knees is interesting, since as we have discussed, it's not merely being on your knees but on your knees in relation to something - kneeling to someone, being at their feet. FTR, but most Dom's spend time kneeling out of supplication as well. Those ropes don't tie themselves do they? (actually, wouldn't be much fun if they did, the feel of working with rope can be as intoxicating as the final result).

Six.

For the count: Soshi has bad knees, but I don't.

_____________________________

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Doth turn Janus' petulant gaze
'pon the rocks and storm rift sea
And littered wood of broken days
disregard for toil shown
no ground broken, no seed sewn.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 42

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 8:35:51 PM

DominaJayde

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I don't know about anyone else, but mine actually wasn't my fault - well ... other than I made the mistake of being in marching band. My section leader managed to knock my knee out from under me with his instrument case - I was on crutches for weeks, and it stretched all the medial ligaments and tendons on my left knee. It still pops out on occation if I'm not careful. And I'm sure that landing on it when I slipped on the ice 3 years in a row didn't help either lol

Ouchies...

Mine was a stupid stupid accident, a momentary lapse in judgement, where I apparantly thought that I could stop a car from moving (it had no driver) with my bare hands, I hyper extended my knee and did in the cruciate ligament, but because I am not a highly paid footballer who can get his knee replaced the next day after he does it in, I'm on a waiting list at the hospital for a knee replacement.

DJ

_____________________________

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(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 43

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 8:46:31 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
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I agree ... ouchies ... those ligaments are important. We should learn to treat them better lol

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Post #: 44

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 9:20:33 PM

MissAidan

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

I am often on my knees in the relationship where I am the submissive one, but only until my legs fall asleep. To me, in my upside down little corner of the universe, kneeling is a submissive act, as is oral for extended periods of time. I actually can not get off on oral from the submissive standpoint, but can, do and love to from a position of dominance. As someone who plays both sides of the field, I use kneeling/being at someones feet as a way to help myself transition from one mindset to the other. For example, with my former male sub, the three of us would often go out together at the start of the evening. My Dom would enjoy watching me do my thing, and then when toy was dismissed for the evening, I would kneel/sit at my Doms feet (even at a club) for a while to give myself the time to transition. I find having something like that helps me considerably.

Edit to say: every time I want to bitch about my knees, I think of my dear friend who just had His second surgery in Dec after getting His knee/lower leg caught in a hay binder in 2006.

< Message edited by MissAidan -- 3/2/2008 9:22:13 PM >

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 45

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/2/2008 10:36:10 PM

MistressDolly

Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

What are your thoughts, can you be a Dominant on your knees?

The position is irrelevant. Dominant/submissive is a state of mind.

_____________________________

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m y s p a c e

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 46

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/3/2008 9:14:53 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

Dominant position is whatever position I choose to be in .... Jeeze .. who comes up with all these " rules " lol ...

Agreed.

However, in print, it does look a little ridiculous for a pro fem dom to be selling her control and dominance when she's kneeling or crawling looking very vulnerable. She's entitled to advertise however she feels, but I don't think that it sells her commodity in the best light or to the most appropriate audience.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 47

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/3/2008 9:31:47 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

On this subject of kneeling and body language, Sixfootmaster is speaking knowledgably of known phenomena. i happen to agree with him. There are many protocol and etiquette courses that, both in and out of the community drill this knowledge into you; in order to be aware of what you are (generally) unconsciously showing by your body language, recognizing what others are showing with theirs. i highly recommend any submissive (or dominant) to make at least a cursory study of body language.

On the other hand, as primal as Ds is to many of us; it's important to note that we are evolved somewhat past our "RUN FIRE!!!" origins and can get past the "image of dominance" and the "image of submission" and do what actually works for us.

Bingo, I have evolved. I didn't agree with those praying and kneeling... don't agree with a lot of cave man stuff and although studies have proven what most people think about body language... things are changing. Just because the crowd does or doesn't do it didn't influence us in partaking of our lifestyle. Just like if someone flips me off... I can take that to mean what body language others see it as... I can wave hello or feel they have wished me well. I don't have to obey the norms of society just becasue they are thought to be best because that is what most think.

I do believe the questions were more of a personal nature... what we felt.

I find it interesting that most of the domme's that answered, did not feel submissive when on their knees.

Yes, but what Six said was NOT incorrect on a sociological level. Watch animal behavioralists....heck, even zookeepers, and how they position their bodies with the animal they are handling. If you want to be a part of the pack, you lower yourself to the level of the animal. If you wish to (and are capable of being above the animal), you remain in a stance above the animal, towering above it. A move to certain animals next to or below their stance indicates submission and gives them the invitation to gain control over you.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 48

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/3/2008 10:21:31 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

Yes, but what Six said was NOT incorrect on a sociological level. Watch animal behavioralists....heck, even zookeepers, and how they position their bodies with the animal they are handling. If you want to be a part of the pack, you lower yourself to the level of the animal. If you wish to (and are capable of being above the animal), you remain in a stance above the animal, towering above it. A move to certain animals next to or below their stance indicates submission and gives them the invitation to gain control over you.

Agreed. Animal behavior and mankind are this way. I wouldn't even argue that. I just don't happen to feel submissive when on my knee's or in most things. I think the dispute was more on other issues and then got caught in attitudes. Including my own. Thus the need to take it to email and get it resolved if it could be. Which it was.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 3/3/2008 10:25:23 AM >

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 49

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/3/2008 11:12:10 AM

ObediantMan1

Posts: 52
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

Im sure your good sub will help you get off your knees and then dust your knees of if necessary!

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 50

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/4/2008 12:33:39 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think that being dominant or being submissive if part attitude and personality and part recognition of authority and accepting it.

So physical acts rarely have any innate dominant or submissive quality any more than pieces of clothing do or colors do.

So I do get on my knees when it is necessary or I feel like it. It does surprise some submissives, it did Fox but when he found out that it didn't change the flow of authority between us and in fact I could do all sorts of "evil" things down there he quickly adjusted.

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(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 51

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/4/2008 1:28:09 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I would think someone less of a dominant in my personal opinion, if they let notions of what is and isn't dominant control their thoughts and change their desires and their comforts and keep them from seeking those out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

-Is being on one’s knees so non-Dominant as to be strenuously avoided?

-Does your convenience ever get pushed to the back-burner in order to keep the image of Dominance?

-What if you are tying your submissive’s ankles to a standing cross, is it ok to go to your knees in order to get there comfortably?

-Is being on one knee less submissive or more dominant than being on both?

What are your thoughts, can you be a Dominant on your knees?

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 52

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/4/2008 4:23:08 PM

LadyJeelys

Posts: 99
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

While I understand that being on one’s knees is traditionally considered a submissive position, I wonder how prevalent this really is.
......
-Is being on one’s knees so non-Dominant as to be strenuously avoided?
What are your thoughts, can you be a Dominant on your knees?

Hmmm. Well, I'm a bit different sooo.....Actually, I enjoy the unexpected and contrasts. So I don't have a problem dropping to my knees---and still being Dominant and in control----besides, come one, tell me what guy doesn't think, um, below the belt when a woman is on her knees near that area. And, not to be all sexist, but control the male genitals, and control the man.

Too, it seems to me that not abiding by the "rules" even the "rules" set by a subculture, you gain even more power. I mean just think of the play on the symbolism, if nothing else. But then that may just be my own conceit in action.

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 53

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/4/2008 5:32:05 PM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

Kneeling is not inherently submissive. The only thing that makes it submissive is the context. If I'm kneeling to my Owner, it's submissive. If I'm kneeling to get under something, then it's not. Likewise, if my Owner gets on her knees to give oral sex, then it's not a submissive thing. It's just a position. I'm the submissive. I'm submissive no matter what we're doing. Acts are nothing by themselves. Context makes them what they are.

i guess i'm just in the under-evolved minority on this one... i don't think kneeling is inherently submissive (in some cases it's obviously practical), but when you combine it with giving oral i have a really hard time seeing it as anything other than a submissive act. i think it would be very confusing to have that happen while in a submissive headspace.

(in reply to Shawn1066)

Post #: 54

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/5/2008 10:55:32 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

-Is being on one’s knees so non-Dominant as to be strenuously avoided?

No

-Does your convenience ever get pushed to the back-burner in order to keep the image of Dominance?

I am more likely to be practical at home with my boys and more
image conscious at a play party or dungeon.

-What if you are tying your submissive’s ankles to a standing cross, is it ok to go to your knees in order to get there comfortably?

I would most likely bend at both waist and knees to be at the right level.

-Is being on one knee less submissive or more dominant than being on both?

That would depend on the context, ie - asking for someone's hand in marriage or picking something off the floor or offering a tea cake.

When a submissive can be ordered by their dominant to beat them, and in so doing still be considered submissive; in my opinion the entire idea of acts or positions being strictly dominant or submissive in nature just sort of collapses.

Much depends on the relationship dynamic between the persons involved.

What are your thoughts, can you be a Dominant on your knees?

Dominance is more of an attitude and mind-set than a body position. That said, body language reflects the attitude and mind-set. So maybe yes, maybe no.

On a more personal note, the first thing one of my boys did when we met was break his knee in a motocross accident.
He had surgery, cast and crutches for months, etc. Even after
a good recovery and time at the gym to rebuild his muscles and regain mobility, he has pain and stiffness from time to time.
He sits on the floor to be at my feet instead

_____________________________

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(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 55

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/7/2008 11:56:30 PM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline

hmmmm, I recall being knelt in front of my fella last weekend. I had tied him to a stool his legs bent and spread - his hands bound and secured behind his butt pushing him forward, him balanced, perched carefully and him looking down at me as I looked up at him - while he was squirming and begging me to stop rubbing him in a certain way that was just tooooooo much can't take it please please please... he is just so yummy, especially when he begs.

< Message edited by ocilla -- 3/7/2008 11:59:39 PM >

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(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 56

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/10/2008 7:47:55 PM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

I agree with Six about us having control over our reactions ultimately - but I do *personally* find that some things are too far ingrained for me to bother with trying to reverse them in my head. My intuitition gives me plenty of information about what is right for me - I don't stress much about whether it is "all society's fault" or my own decision.

I love reading about etiquette in other cultures for this reason. The japanese make a big deal out of how far someone bows with regard to their status. It's not surprising that the lower someone bows, the more submissive they are considered to be (in relation to the other person). When evenly matched people meet, it's a funny contest of both trying to bow lower. I suspect if our culture had the tradition of bowing, we'd be doing the opposite and trying to bow less than the other person.

So yeah, no kneeling for me unless I have a really good reason to be down there.

< Message edited by khem -- 3/10/2008 7:50:20 PM >

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 57

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/10/2008 8:13:24 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

Did you just want to be sarky, or what?

Six.

Edited for typos.

Well then you missed one. It should be "snarky".

But I agree with you. I think kneeling is innately a submissive posture. That is why it is a cross cultural phenomenon associated with showing respect or reverence. Although if one's sub is tied up, gagged, covered in welts and bruises, glossy eyed and barely able to speak, it would probably reduce the sense that one is "submitting" simply by getting on your knees. Context is key.

No servicing on the knees. Edit the rule book I say.

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

Post #: 58

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/10/2008 8:19:27 PM

feralcat

Posts: 116
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

Oh geez...not a Domme rule book! Probably written by some pesty whiney subs...lol... ha I piss on that rule book!

I do what I want

(in reply to DianeB269)

Post #: 59

RE: Dominant on your knees? - 3/10/2008 8:34:42 PM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

hahaha careful what you piss on around here, you'll get the scat folks all turned on

(in reply to feralcat)

Post #: 60

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