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ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I know several people at university right now. Most are in the middle of midterms exams, or just wrapping up. So here is my scenario:

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A chemistry midterm exam is given. The exam is 37 questions and 6 pages long. Each question has multiple parts and some are even essay style, short answer questions. There are some multiple choice questions, but almost all questions require at least some math and conversions. The math and conversions on the exam are often more difficult and seem to synthesize knowledge imparted during the lecture period leading to the exam - but the practice work during lectures and homework is never as hard as what is on the exam. The official time for the midterm is a single 50 minute class session, but the teacher allows students to arrive 30 minutes earlier and to stay 30 minutes later if they need to.

The chemistry class normally meets for three 50 minute sessions per week. The class is taught and the exam is given by a graduate student. This graduate student is known to take time away from class with substitute teachers filling in as he is also undergoing various evaluation processes toward a higher degree.

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It's been some time since I have been in school. Does that scenario sound familiar and fair to you? What might you do going forward? Presume that getting high marks is extremely important to you.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

What have most undergrads done to deserve taking a faculty member away from their research and other work to teach intro material? There are TA graduate students out there going back for their second masters or even doctorate, or teaching after 20+ years in the actual discipline. Blanket boasts advertise ignorance like a neon sign.

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ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Thanks for the many replies. I often post things that aren't about me, despite what some may think. And this wasn't about me.

I think the teaching seems scattered. It's clear that they don't have this guy's full attention as he pursues his own agenda.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

That isn't what I said. The assertion was that no TA was ever good enough to teach certain people any undergrad material. I pointed out that such blanket statements can reflect naivete.
Also, you are incorrect when you suggest that I said there was anything trivial about intro coursework... it is what it is. There may be better uses for a faculty member's time, or there may be persons better suited to teach the basics.

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Another point I made was that the blanket 'all grad TAs are beneath me' ignores who many grad students really are. They could have much more real world experience than anyone on faculty.
Would you rather have a 'real' professor who has never left campus, or some TA who has made a career out of practical applications, and is getting the doctorate to become faculty?

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Which is why anyone who wants to learn something in school, instead of being babysat toward a scrap of paper, will be taking copious and useful notes, asking questions, going to office hours, finding a tutor, and forming study groups long before midterms roll around... you know, like they were involved in higher education or something...

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ORIGINAL: MollHackabout

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

That isn't what I said. The assertion was that no TA was ever good enough to teach certain people any undergrad material. I pointed out that such blanket statements can reflect naivete.
Also, you are incorrect when you suggest that I said there was anything trivial about intro coursework... it is what it is. There may be better uses for a faculty member's time, or there may be persons better suited to teach the basics.

First-year students are often the most precariously situated, as they are in a transitional period. They are generally the students who require the most skillful and attentive teaching to ease this. So when you ask "What have most undergrads done to deserve taking a faculty member away from their research and other work to teach intro material? ", and diminish the importance of intro classes, it smacks of elitism.

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Another point I made was that the blanket 'all grad TAs are beneath me' ignores who many grad students really are. They could have much more real world experience than anyone on faculty.
Would you rather have a 'real' professor who has never left campus, or some TA who has made a career out of practical applications, and is getting the doctorate to become faculty?

I'd rather have a prof who doesn't have unreasonably high standards, as grad sessionals often do, without the teaching methods to warrant such results.
I'm not saying all grad students are like this, but from my experience, an alarming number are.

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Which is why anyone who wants to learn something in school, instead of being babysat toward a scrap of paper, will be taking copious and useful notes, asking questions, going to office hours, finding a tutor, and forming study groups long before midterms roll around... you know, like they were involved in higher education or something...

There's a difference between "not being babysat" and being alienated as a result lack of office hours, and inconsistent lecturers, because your lecturer got his buddy to talk while he studies for his comp...which seems to be the scenario being described.

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The blanket statement was made that no TAs were good enough to teach any class, by at least 2 people here, and it was that fallacy that I refuted.
If you are going to defend that assertion, then do so without moving the goal posts to 'some TAs are no good'.

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And the notion you presented, that teaching undergraduate course work at the university level is the most important thing that faculty members can do, simply does not reflect reality.

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Would it be less elitist if the supercomputers, surgical breakthroughs, and theater departments suddenly fell of a tree by magic, and all that faculty had to do was liberate young minds?

No doubt... let us know when you find a university like that in the real world.

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ORIGINAL: Muttling

Have you ever heard the phrase "publish or perish"?    Universities are research institutions first and teaching institutions second.   This is especially true when you talk about Freshman and Sophmore classes.  The juniors and seniors start to garnish a bit more attention, but little respect unti you hit graduate level.


His research, presentations, professional publications, and grant requests will get him a hell of a lot more at a boys from the university than any level of teaching in a freshman chemistry class.

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(MH)If it's inappropriate to have a faculty member in the class because of research obligations, then why is it appropriate to have a grad lecturer in the class, who presumably has a similar level of obligations to meet? If a grad can be expected to write a dissertation in the allotted two year period while teaching, surely a prof can manage to do a substantial amount of research while lecturing?

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(MH)If it's inappropriate to have a faculty member in the class because of research obligations, then why is it appropriate to have a grad lecturer in the class, who presumably has a similar level of obligations to meet? If a grad can be expected to write a dissertation in the allotted two year period while teaching, surely a prof can manage to do a substantial amount of research while lecturing?

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Presumably? Presumed by whom?

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Again, idealistic suggestions are fine, but the reality of how a university treats money and time is far different, particularly at an R1 school..
For example, once a faculty member has spent months writing a grant proposal, and gets the money and equipment, they are obligated to give up part of their salary to the school, since a specific percentage of their work time is now bought and paid for by the soft money. What you are suggesting would be criminal fraud.

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Graduate students are NOT required to teach courses. They volunteer to do it to earn extra money. If they are really lucky, they can get on as a research assistant and do research that is directly related to their dissertation. RAs don't make crap for money but the work load is a lot less.