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RE: University Students: Test Question - 3/8/2008 7:26:45 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MollHackabout

Look, I'm not completely ignorant as to the operation of universities. Maybe things are different here, and I know my federal grant money (SSHRC) limits the amount of time I am allowed to TA, even as a lowly PhD candidate. What I'm suggesting actually isn't criminal fraud - what I am suggesting is taking profs away from the upper-level classes that they so adore, and maybe have them spend some time with the kids who are probably having the toughest time. And, you know, maybe hire more faculty, particularly where staff salaries are being partially provisioned through grants, rather than bringing in grads.

There are faculty with a workload along the lines of:
Running a grant as the PR, overseeing the work of several grad students, teaching grad courses, perhaps serving as editor of a peer reviewed journal, running panels or even sections at conferences, sitting on dissertation committees, sitting on university committees, making time for their own publications, consulting on textbooks, consulting to outside agencies, and keeping the school happy with fresh grant money... is any that really less important than making sure that no TA ever teaches a 101 class?

Because don't forget, that "...I have never had a grad student teach any class. I will drop like a hot rock if I find out they are a grad student." and " ...I also would drop and add a different class if I discovered a grad student was teaching the course " and "... I did not sign up for college to be taught by a self important student. I came to college to be taught by a PROFESSOR. If faculty is too busy to teach, then make them unbusy. Research in the end is something that should be a reward, not a right. " are the assertions which I have been addressing.
I said that the above sentences indicated that those posters still held high school expectations of being babysat until rewarded with a piece of paper.
I also notice that no one has answered as to why they would rather have someone with no real experience, just a title, who was a grad student until 6 months ago teaching them, instead of a TA with say a 20+ year career and a master's or even PhD in the discipline.

As far as solutions, schools having enough spare faculty so that every undergrad gets taught only by PhDs. that would indeed be fantastic.

(And it does appear that your school is different from my experience... it was considered the norm for those admitted to doctoral candidacy to teach 3 classes or the equivalent in order to get the maximum stipend, since they were no longer taking coursework.)

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RE: University Students: Test Question - 3/8/2008 10:53:36 AM

MollHackabout

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quote:

I also notice that no one has answered as to why they would rather have someone with no real experience, just a title, who was a grad student until 6 months ago teaching them, instead of a TA with say a 20+ year career and a master's or even PhD in the discipline.

Simple: if you're in a tenure track position, at least in Canada, the importance of student reviews has been impressed upon you. You understand that if these reviews are bad, you may be sunk. It's not just extra pocket money or a chance to get experience anymore.

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RE: University Students: Test Question - 3/8/2008 1:28:29 PM

Alumbrado

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An evasive answer that doesn't address the question in any way, but merely moves the goalposts, still fails to support the assertion under discussion.
Student reviews are written at the end of the class by students who actually took the class, not by students who refuse to take any class under a TA.

So far you are batting zero.

Once more on the quotes that amount to 'No TA should ever be allowed to teach any undergrad class', what is the defense for that extreme of an assertion when it clearly includes the many cases where the TA is an experienced practitioner in that field who is going back to pick up an advanced degree, or when the TA is getting a second doctorate, and the asked for 'real professor' is someone brand new who has never left campus?
(We've already gone over why the reality doesn't allow for senior faculty to give up some of their duties to teach all of the 101 coursework.)

Why would there be an academic advantage to the student in choosing the latter? I suspect it ties into the 'this midterm is like Soooo unfair' tenor of the OP, which as I said, reeks of a 13th and 14th grade entitlement mentality.

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RE: University Students: Test Question - 3/8/2008 1:36:02 PM

Muttling

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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MollHackabout

quote:

I also notice that no one has answered as to why they would rather have someone with no real experience, just a title, who was a grad student until 6 months ago teaching them, instead of a TA with say a 20+ year career and a master's or even PhD in the discipline.

Simple: if you're in a tenure track position, at least in Canada, the importance of student reviews has been impressed upon you. You understand that if these reviews are bad, you may be sunk. It's not just extra pocket money or a chance to get experience anymore.

I know for a fact that this is not true at the University of Waterloo. They have had some students outraged over a refusal to tenure a good teacher who wasn't living by the publish or perish matra while they tenured other professors who were horrible in the classroom but pulled in a lot of grant money for his research.

What you describe is more indicative of a community college than a major university. I can't imagine them refusing to tenure a professor who is dragging in the research dollars and getting the university's name out as a major research institution.

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RE: University Students: Test Question - 3/8/2008 1:42:47 PM

CuriousLord

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Honestly, I think you don't need a Ph.D. to teach a lot of classes. Not even just 101's.

I mean, honestly.. do you need to know advanced partial differential equations to teach a class on how to add numbers? What about an algebra class? A Calculus class? An ordinary differentail equations class? A regular partial differentials class? At what point does it become relevant? (I'd say it becomes relevant around the ODE class.)

Sometimes, I think people who are closer to the having learned the material themselves can be more effective in understanding students' questions and concerns through empathy. I'm probably more fit to teach Caclulus I than many math Ph.D.'s. Not because I would hope to be able to contest him in the mathematical arena, but I'm sure both him and I have a firm grasp on the material; I'd take an advantage, though, in also remembering more what it's like to have to learn it. I'm more able to empathize with those I'd be communicating with.

---

Therefore, I'd ask one to consider this:
Who would be better at teaching kids how to add two-digit numbers: a Ph.D. in Math or an elementary school teacher? From this, can't we deduce that it's absurd to believe that a Ph.D. necessitates being a superior- or even an equal- teacher?

In short:
Teachers need to have a firm grasp on material and the ability to communicate it. Once you're past the point of having a firm grasp, the communication point is important. I don't see why someone needs to know volumes of even more advanced information to answer questions that'll never go that far.

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