RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:16:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

 hagis 
 


The Scotts deserve to pay for that invention lol.




GreedyTop -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:26:02 PM)

As someone who is of Scottish ancestry......

I couldn't agree more....

*looks around to see if they're gonna come strip the tartan from me now....*




Kirata -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:26:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Yes, it's painful to try new things and embrace diversity.  It's not for the weak.

 

I wish it came more easily for you. I'm sorry for your pain.

K.




kittinSol -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:28:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

As someone who is of Scottish ancestry......

I couldn't agree more....

*looks around to see if they're gonna come strip the tartan from me now....*



You and me both, babe, you and me both. I'm such a mongrel, they wouldn't take me down at the pound [:D] . I have haggis stories that would make your eyes water lol.




GreedyTop -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:29:24 PM)

you mean more than the idea of eating haggis does??  [;)]




kittinSol -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:34:16 PM)

Yep [:'(] . Flambeed in Whisky. Disturbing stuff.




domiguy -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:52:07 PM)

You twits. Take a post from the op and break it down to hagis.




GreedyTop -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 6:53:01 PM)

Domi...  wanna fuck? [;)]




LotusSong -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 7:04:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Letter from one 'Angry Woman'   

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania
?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?




.. and Bush has sent far more Americans to their death.  Blind patriotism is just that...blind.




kittinSol -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 7:42:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Domi...  wanna fuck? [;)]


It's not by calling us "twits" that he will. Haha!




brainiacsub -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 8:39:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
[...snip...]
Edited to add: On the subject of war over oil, oil is not a commodity like other commodities. Control of the flow and supply of oil confers enormous power in today's world (which means, until we replace its use with something better). We do not have that control, but if it is used against us by those who do you can bet there will be a war over oil, and we had better win it.

K.

K, I think this is the smartest thing you've ever said on these boards. I hope people are reading and taking stock. It is inevitable that human beings will fight to the death for the last vestiges of our dwindling natural resources - oil, food, water, soil....I for one, want me and mine to be on the side of the winners. It is rather naive of people to think that by electing a Democrat instead of a Republican that we are somehow going to miraculously reduce our dependency on oil or avoid a war for it. It'll take much more than well intentioned leaders to solve this problem. We'll reduce our dependency on oil only when it becomes necessary to do so, and not a day before. The question is, who will define 'necessary' and how.




caitlyn -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 8:42:20 PM)

If would be fun to respond to the angry woman ... but sadly, I don't care.




kittinSol -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 8:45:32 PM)

I think we drained the fun for all it was worth, so no regrets :-) .




SugarMyChurro -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 8:51:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
K, I think this is the smartest thing you've ever said on these boards.


Smarter still would be to lose that war by not fighting it in the first place. We could move to other energy sources right now and preserve our own stores of fossil fuels for other uses like plastics. Coal is strictly for BBQs on the back patio.

What say you, BrainiacSub?




Kirata -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 9:25:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Smarter still would be... We could move to other energy sources right now



If you are aware of an energy source that we could feasibly move to right now to power our cars, trucks, ships, and aircraft, I would be gratified to know what it is. The world is at your feet.
 
K.
 




stella41b -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 10:34:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJeff1952

I have read all the posts on this, and I wish to ask this of all.. Would the world be a safer place with Saddam still in power? How many times did he snub his nose at the UN and throw out all the UN Inspectors? and fianally, Do W/we A/all remember Vietnam?

I echo the guy who asks you to study facts. This fight is NOT over oil! It is not even over Democracy. It is over Oppression by a brutal dictator. For those who think this is over oil, get your facts right before you post.

When this country was at war in Vietnam, the politicians slammed the door in thier faces and stopped supporting the troops. I can see this same turn of events happening in Iraq. If we as Americans vote into office the people who will turn and run in Iraq, what message will that send to our Allies? They will always think of Americans as spineless, willing to start the fight, but NOT mopping up and staying for the hard work after. YES, I wish there was no more loss of life in Iraq, but it will take decades to make it right. I agree why we are there and why we went there, but we have to finish the job we started.

Just my opinion.


I have to come in on this.

You claim that Iraq is all over a brutal, oppressive dictator, right?

How long was Saddam Hussein in power in Iraq? And what were the Americans doing during this time?

You talk about studying facts, right? Studying history too?

How then do you explain the fact that it was Margaret Thatcher who started the conflict with Iraq and who persuaded George Bush Snr. to intervene after Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait? How then do you explain Saddam Hussein's withdrawal of troops after setting fire to Kuwaiti oilfields?

You talk of Saddam Hussein as a brutal, oppressive dictator? I mean let's go back to his trial, where the main prosecution evidence presented was one massacre in Tikrit, for which he was duly sentenced and hanged.

Let's bear in mind what thickerdenwater posted, that Iraq is a country of different people who all hate each other - Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, would it not be more the truth that Saddam Hussein was a hardline dictator who not only kept peace and control in his country, but also went to war against the regime in Iran, surprise surprise, supported by the Americans?

What about those weapons of mass destruction which were supposed to be in Iraq? What about the genocide and atrocities that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have committed? How come evidence of this never came to trial?

How does Saddam Hussein compare with someone like Joseph Stalin responsible for 66 million deaths of Slavs throughout the Soviet Union? We're just talking Slavs here, not Jews or anyone else.

And if the US is so concerned about brutal, oppressive dictators how come they're not interested in Wladimir Lukashenko who has been keeping Belarussians under a Stalinist regime for many years?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-American. I remember 9/11 very clearly. I was in a Warsaw theatre on that day, standing before 120 young people, scheduled to give theatre workshops and start a production. I chose to go ahead as my gesture of solidarity with Americans and my stand against terrorism.

Oh and incidentally, talking of 9/11, now that we're talking about facts. I've read the OP and her concern for the people murdered in the World Trade Center and in Pennsylvania as a result of terrorists hijacking civil aircraft in United States airspace. But was this such a surprise? What about the Lockerbie bombing in 1988 and that Pan Am flight on which there were terrorists and a bomb? Let us not forget that the plane was in British airspace flying over Lockerbie in the south west of Scotland, flying out into the Atlantic Ocean destined for.. surprise, surprise, New York. What was happening during those three years?

How come there were no security restrictions imposed after Lockerbie? How come the security restrictions weren't imposed until long after 9/11?

Let us not forget Tony Blair. Yes, the man who successfully negotiated with Sinn Fein, the Irish Government and the Ulster Unionists to bring about peace in Northern Ireland and an end to the terrorism of the IRA in the Good Friday Agreement at Stormont. How come he stood beside George W. Bush and was his strongest ally in this 'war on terrorism'? Was he not the voice of reason that Bush should have listened to but chose to ignore?

You write 'If we as Americans vote into office the people who will turn and run in Iraq, what message will that send to our Allies?'.

Exactly who are threatening American sovereignty here? Iraq? Iran? Syria?

I respect Islam as a faith, and feel that Muslims like anyone should have the right to practise their faith without prejudice, harassment or persecution. Like the OP I have no sympathy with terrorists, or anyone who uses religion for political gain or as a means of oppression or control.

For this reason I stand against the Taliban just as much as I stand against the Catholic Church in Poland. A terrorist is to me anyone to uses bombs and causes terror, fear and loss of human life to achieve their political aims. Anyone. Think about it.

The way I see it, the United States now has a choice to make with regard to its military occupation in Iraq. It can either continue to play world gangster and in the same way as Hitler abused the Wehrmacht it can continue to abuse US military forces to protect the corporate interests of the few, or it can use it's power and military presence to take the opportunity to start negotiations and bring about lasting peace in the Middle East. However this would require a change in political thinking in Washington and the sharing of the resources it seeks to gain.

Whatever happens the invasion of Iraq is history. Whether it is seen as the use of military force to acquire resources by force or a desire to bring about lasting peace in the Middle East remains to be seen. This is the challenge facing Americans at the moment. This is a decision which Washington needs to make, and the choice all Americans need to consider as they consider voting.

Choose wisely. The eyes of the world are watching.




brainiacsub -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/5/2008 10:58:03 PM)

Hiya Sugar! Nice to converse with you again.

For the record, I believe in being good stewards of our planet - conservation, preservation, moderation, etc. Americans...we are the greediest and most wasteful sons of bitches on the planet. But the world owes a debt of gratitude for all the innovation and advancement in science and technology introduced by this country in the last 300 yrs. We also have to accept our share of the responsibility when the fruits of our ambitions are realized at the great expense of others. It will take the best and worst this country has to offer in order to solve this problem. This is not a question of technology, policy, or morality - it is one of economics. Where there is money to be made, there you will find the solution. Policy and even morality will adapt. History bares this out. Nothing is free in this world, my friend. Democracy and capitalism will drive the innovation, but sadly someone somewhere will pay for it. You seem to greatly underestimate the costs - environmental, material, and human - of bringing alternative energy sources to mass market. If you have the answer, I promise you could quit your day job tomorrow. For those of us over 40, we may never see it in our lifetime. But we will be witnesses to the inevitable. I am not an apologist for war, but I believe it is in our nature. As the oil becomes scarce, the nations of the world will be like hyenas fighting over rotting carcasses in desert. I want to bet on the biggest, baddest, nastiest, mother fucker with GPS laser guided armour piercing bunker buster bombs strapped to his back to get my piece of maggot infested entrail. No matter what you think about war, it won't be an option not to fight when the time comes.




stella41b -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/6/2008 12:00:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Hiya Sugar! Nice to converse with you again.

For the record, I believe in being good stewards of our planet - conservation, preservation, moderation, etc. Americans...we are the greediest and most wasteful sons of bitches on the planet. But the world owes a debt of gratitude for all the innovation and advancement in science and technology introduced by this country in the last 300 yrs. We also have to accept our share of the responsibility when the fruits of our ambitions are realized at the great expense of others. It will take the best and worst this country has to offer in order to solve this problem. This is not a question of technology, policy, or morality - it is one of economics. Where there is money to be made, there you will find the solution. Policy and even morality will adapt. History bares this out. Nothing is free in this world, my friend. Democracy and capitalism will drive the innovation, but sadly someone somewhere will pay for it. You seem to greatly underestimate the costs - environmental, material, and human - of bringing alternative energy sources to mass market. If you have the answer, I promise you could quit your day job tomorrow. For those of us over 40, we may never see it in our lifetime. But we will be witnesses to the inevitable. I am not an apologist for war, but I believe it is in our nature. As the oil becomes scarce, the nations of the world will be like hyenas fighting over rotting carcasses in desert. I want to bet on the biggest, baddest, nastiest, mother fucker with GPS laser guided armour piercing bunker buster bombs strapped to his back to get my piece of maggot infested entrail. No matter what you think about war, it won't be an option not to fight when the time comes.


Too bad that so many people are already fighting the war and there's no end in sight.

Only here I'm not talking about soldiers, troops, bombs or weapons, but I'm talking here about people who are fighting and who have to fight just to get the things they need to live and survive, to feed their families, and to fight disease.

For over 20 years now in the West supported by advances in technology and developments in healthcare we have seen many great changes in the way we work and in our healthcare. We have been conditioned to live in a kind of 'rat race', to be competitive, healthy, independent, to put ourselves first, and many of us have been caught up in a cycle of work and consumerism and this is the reality for many people, a week at work, limited contact with family and friends and consumer pleasures.

The problem is with a rat race, as with any sort of race, that it produces very few winners and an awful lot of losers. What have we achieved? Can we look around ourselves and honestly say that society is better now than it was before? How have we used the advancements in technology and healthcare? What have we done to use this advancement in technology and healthcare and better ways of working to bring about benefits for everyone in society?  

We've got to face facts. Sure, some people have benefitted from advances and changes over the past 20 years, but many people haven't and there are still as many people who are unable to keep up with the leaders.

Sure, there are alternative energy supplies but none have proved practical enough for mass usage, and the energy resources we have at our disposal are dwindling and running out. We cannot let our search for resources and ways of consuming energy blind us to the real enemies which face us - the human race - which are poverty, destitution, and crime. These are the real enemies which threaten not just some starving Africans in some faraway place but humanity or the entire human race as a whole - including me, you, and everyone else.

The way I see it at the moment there is a war, but it's poverty and destitution against humanity, and from what I can see poverty and destitution are winning and the numbers of human victims are growing every day.

You can keep your eyes shut to the truth and keep yourself safe in your cosy little world and keep alive your dreams of Armageddon - but is Armageddon really necessary to cause you to change your way of thinking?

War is not the answer, and when it comes to taking resources from other countries by force it can never be justified.

Nothing is free in this world, everything must be paid for, but we have got to face facts here and the fact is that along with our increased material comforts and better lifestyles that some of us have worked so hard for, we have also bought ourselves into an uncertain future. We also need to face up to the fact that the price we pay for something may not cover the whole cost of what we pay for, and the rest of the cost is made up at the expense of someone else against their wishes.

Feel free to continue advocating the fight and struggle for what remains of the world's resources but wouldn't it be much better to accept a greater degree of social responsibility and learn to share with others the resources left and actually work towards fighting poverty and crime?

Surely a better way forward would be to cut consumption and move towards fair trade?

We have lived through an entire century of mass warfare and party politics both left and right, we have seen 40 of the most innovative years in history, and yet the social problems of today still remain the same as they did 100 years ago.

We talk of democracy and freedom but yet are happy to vote for governments who are out of touch with the needs of the people they represent.

Armageddon isn't a prediction, but a warning. It shouldn't be a prophecy we would want to fulfill.

The chance for peace is there. For the sake of humanity it is in all our interests to take it.  




Zensee -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/6/2008 12:20:33 AM)

You know, in the movies, when they have "children's art" on the fridge that's been done by some comercial artist pretending to draw like a four year old? You know how fake it always looks? That's the impression I get from this.

It has psy-ops written all over it.


Z.




meatcleaver -> RE: One Just {1} Angry Woman. (3/6/2008 1:31:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Hiya Sugar! Nice to converse with you again.

For the record, I believe in being good stewards of our planet - conservation, preservation, moderation, etc. Americans...we are the greediest and most wasteful sons of bitches on the planet. But the world owes a debt of gratitude for all the innovation and advancement in science and technology introduced by this country in the last 300 yrs. We also have to accept our share of the responsibility when the fruits of our ambitions are realized at the great expense of others. It will take the best and worst this country has to offer in order to solve this problem. This is not a question of technology, policy, or morality - it is one of economics. Where there is money to be made, there you will find the solution. Policy and even morality will adapt. History bares this out. Nothing is free in this world, my friend. Democracy and capitalism will drive the innovation, but sadly someone somewhere will pay for it. You seem to greatly underestimate the costs - environmental, material, and human - of bringing alternative energy sources to mass market. If you have the answer, I promise you could quit your day job tomorrow. For those of us over 40, we may never see it in our lifetime. But we will be witnesses to the inevitable. I am not an apologist for war, but I believe it is in our nature. As the oil becomes scarce, the nations of the world will be like hyenas fighting over rotting carcasses in desert. I want to bet on the biggest, baddest, nastiest, mother fucker with GPS laser guided armour piercing bunker buster bombs strapped to his back to get my piece of maggot infested entrail. No matter what you think about war, it won't be an option not to fight when the time comes.


Weird justification for war. When I first started reading this post I thought aah! someone who has a little national self reflection, someone who dares to look in the mirror and not flinch at what she sees.

Lady, the world owes America nothing, you could say American innovation, advancement in science and technology are for a large part down to European born and educated scientists and inventors. You know, like Nazi rocket scientists (I jest but not completely). The US is part of a western culture that has exploited, murdered and enslaved people for hundreds of years. You have troops in something like 50 countries in the world, not for US defence but for the enforcement of free trade (largely unfair one way free trade), the same imperial aims of the British Empire. Of course China is the nation that appears to be the one that in the future will have the power to challenge the US, which is the reason for much anti-Chinese hysteria in the American media. The idea that the west is somehow a benigh culture doesn't hold up to a modicum of scrutiny. The west has proved to be the most venal and blood thirsty of all cultures. Yes, other cultures aren't full of peace loving hippies but it is the west that conquered much of the world, imposed its world view on most of the globe and has been happy to slaughter anyone who disagrees. The oil you fight over IS NOT YOURS. If a country invaded the US for its natural resources you wouldn't call them law abiding and civilised, not matter what the fuck they invented or discovered and you wouldn't consider they needed thanking for the privilege of conquering you.




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