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[Poll]

Some kind of monster?


she would make a good prez
  31% (11)
she would suck as prez
  37% (13)
blech; politics makes my ass crack itch
  14% (5)
it's time to thaw out FDR!
  17% (6)


Total Votes : 35
(last vote on : 3/15/2008 1:59:05 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:06:03 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Hey red  If she wins, I'll gladly admit to being wrong about her, if she proves to be a good leader. But, I have my reservations.....


Level....I suspect you...like me...lean towards the Republican side....however....he is almost the same age as Methusela.....
 
(Ya know?)

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:14:18 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Gris, actually I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I have voted for Republicans (and Libertarians, and Greens), and my politics are all over the map. I think some see me as tilting rightward (and I do, at times), but few thought so back when Tom Delay and Ken Starr were in the news during President Clinton's administration. My venom is cyclical, it seems.
 
John Methus, err, McCain..... I don't know if I'd vote for him, but I like the man, generally.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:18:03 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
But to do the same regarding Thatcher is okay?


What part of "she and her cabal are responsible for the torturous deaths of millions" did you not understand?

Evil has no gender.  Elizabeth Bathory should have been killed too--at the end of the day, her body count was much lower than Pinochet's and Maggie's.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 3/8/2008 7:19:14 PM >

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:27:56 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
But to do the same regarding Thatcher is okay?


What part of "she and her cabal are responsible for the torturous deaths of millions" did you not understand?


Just because something comes out of your mouth doesn't mean it's true. How can you lay what Pinochet did on Thatcher?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:41:38 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		Gawwwd....this one's all over the map ain't it?

My Mom's been telling me for 20 years "Son THIS election is pivotal..."

Well....I'm a Republican....always have been....but I have to tell you (and not 'against" McCain)....I just think the Dems (may) have a better program.

Not quite sure what Obama's is....Hillary's is only a little less vague...but I'll tell you wut....the Republicans have sure fucked things up enough that that sure as fuck ain't where I's leaning these days.


< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/8/2008 7:44:09 PM >

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:44:20 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Thank you Level darling, for putting an option there for me....blech; politics makes my ass crack itch

I love you.

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:50:37 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Gawwwd....this one's all over the map ain't it?

My Mom's been telling me for 20 years "Son THIS election is pivotal..."

Well....I'm a Republican....always have been....but I have to tell you (and not 'against" McCain)....I just think the Dems (may) have a better program.

Not quite sure what Obama's is....Hillary's is only a little less vague...but I'll tell you wut....the Republicans have sure fucked things up enough that that sure as fuck ain't where I's leaning these days.



I understand; even though I like McCain, I'm not sure if he's what we need right now. Unless he talks Powell into running with him

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:51:29 PM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Just because something comes out of your mouth doesn't mean it's true. How can you lay what Pinochet did on Thatcher?


Generally if you disapproved of someone's violations of human rights and didn't support them in their reign of murder and torture, you don't welcome them with open arms after they flee their homeland.

I feel much the same way about people who harbor Osama Bin Laden or known Nazi war criminals, quite frankly.

Political leaders are responsible for the policies that they condone.  Thatcher was part of an international axis that caused a horrific rise in human rights violations the world over, and she is at least partially responsible, along with Reagan and Bush Sr., for the strength of various terrorist movements around the globe.

Saddam was all very cute when we were using him to inconvenience the Iranians--didn't care much that he was a ravening butcher during the Reagan Era.  Ditto with the Taliban and the Russians.

Pinochet and various other Latin American dictators and terrorist movements were funded by Reagan/Bush and politically supported by people like Thatcher for many years.  Without their help and support, a WHOLE lot fewer people would have ended up butchered in mass graves.  And quite honestly, without the wheels they set in motion, a whole lot fewer people would be dying now.  Some swords cut both ways--Islamic terrorism is obviously one of them. 

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 3/8/2008 7:53:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 7:52:02 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Thank you Level darling, for putting an option there for me....blech; politics makes my ass crack itch

I love you.


The feeling is mutual, pretty lady.
 
And politics does the same to me at times.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 8:00:00 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Are people comparing Clinton to Thatcher simply because they're both women? Isn't that a little backwards?!

Come ON, peeps... the new millenium's eight years old already... it's time to put these antiquated ideas where they belong: on the bookshelf of history. Clinton has nothing to do with Thatcher (don't get me started on Thatcher either - the day she resigned was one of the happiest of my life :-) ).

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 8:20:11 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Just because something comes out of your mouth doesn't mean it's true. How can you lay what Pinochet did on Thatcher?


Generally if you disapproved of someone's violations of human rights and didn't support them in their reign of murder and torture, you don't welcome them with open arms after they flee their homeland.

I feel much the same way about people who harbor Osama Bin Laden or known Nazi war criminals, quite frankly.

Political leaders are responsible for the policies that they condone.  Thatcher was part of an international axis that caused a horrific rise in human rights violations the world over, and she is at least partially responsible, along with Reagan and Bush Sr., for the strength of various terrorist movements around the globe.

Saddam was all very cute when we were using him to inconvenience the Iranians--didn't care much that he was a ravening butcher during the Reagan Era.  Ditto with the Taliban and the Russians.

Pinochet and various other Latin American dictators and terrorist movements were funded by Reagan/Bush and politically supported by people like Thatcher for many years.  Without their help and support, a WHOLE lot fewer people would have ended up butchered in mass graves.  And quite honestly, without the wheels they set in motion, a whole lot fewer people would be dying now.  Some swords cut both ways--Islamic terrorism is obviously one of them. 


I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but to the best of my knowledge, the only reason Thatcher ever expressed gratitude to Pinochet was in return for his support during the Faulklands war. This does not warrant a death sentence for her.
 
Edited to add: His support does not make any wrong-doing of his okay, nor does it mean I agree with her standing by him at the end of his life. But again, it isn't something she should be murdered for.

< Message edited by Level -- 3/8/2008 8:43:34 PM >

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 8:24:51 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are people comparing Clinton to Thatcher simply because they're both women?


Not here they aren't.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/8/2008 9:00:50 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are people comparing Clinton to Thatcher simply because they're both women?


Not here they aren't.


Good - I had to ask: there's a wind of misoginy blowing through collarme at the moment which is twitchworthy ;-).

Thatcher also supported Pinochet because of his repression of socialism in Chili; it's not just to do with the Falklands. They shared a fascistic and 'grab all you can' ideal - though hers was frustrated by Britain's remarkable resillience in the face of the forces of reaction. She tried her damnedbest though.

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 1:22:44 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hard to explain the issues in context with Chile.  It was coming at a time when socialist groups were thriving in Latin America with no small support from other communist regimes.

This doesn't excuse the atrocities that were committed, but the rightwing regime is, in no small part, responsible for propelling Chile to the forefront amongst their geographical rivals.

Stephan


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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 6:03:06 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I don't believe the end ever justifies the means.

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 7:27:16 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I don't believe the end ever justifies the means.


       Unless you agree with the end of course...

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 7:41:02 AM   
youngsubgeoff


Posts: 900
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: The Asylum
Status: offline 		hmmm, I think its time we dug up reagan. think about it. hes already dead, cant cause trouble, dont have to worry about an assasination attempt, and gaurenteed it'll make the rest of the world think we're even crazier

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 7:52:05 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff

hmmm, I think its time we dug up reagan. think about it. hes already dead, cant cause trouble, dont have to worry about an assasination attempt, and gaurenteed it'll make the rest of the world think we're even crazier


There's an idea....... an even better one, let's just use his head...... put it on a platter....put blinking lights in the eye sockets......... have Rich Little stand right beside the head, and do impressions of him speaking....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 12:49:55 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I don't believe the end ever justifies the means.


It isn't my intent to justify anything.  I'm only observing the end result.

The brutality of the rightwing regime has only given current socialist parties in Chile more ammunition.  It's a game of two steps forward, one step back.

Stephan


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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

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RE: Some kind of monster? - 3/9/2008 8:20:13 PM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


Reagan and his cronies bought and paid for the Mayan genocide as well..

All of these people should have been hanged.  They are enemies of humankind, and responsible for millions of deaths.


Glad as i am to see that i'm not the only person who didn't buy into the huge revisionistic orgasm that accompanied the Gipper's death, it's a bit off-track.

Personally, i hate seeing the novelty aspect pushed (first black, first Woman, first Capricorn, whatever). It's disgracefully shallow, and both D candidates are riding it.

HRC has experience as First Lady (while we can speculate as to the nature of her relationship with WJC during his Presidency, that's all it is), and US Senator. That's it. In recent history, we've tended to look to State Governorship or Vice Presidency as the natural stepping-stone to the Presidency, which has some rational basis. i'm not really sold on her experience level. Same

And, yeah, i'll admit that i'm not happy about her playing the crying card. It will help her with the Oprah-watching voters, but as far as dealing with world leaders, it's a liability.


However, since i'd vote Libertarian even if their candidate was Ayn Rand's severed head in a jar, it's kinda moot anyway

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