RE: my apologies (Full Version)

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SinergyNstrumpet -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 5:13:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

There is a difference between saying you are Sorry and admitting that you were wrong.

One has meaning the other isn't worth pissing on a forrest fire.

Steel


I am often sorry that someone feels bad, or that a bad thing happened to someone. I do not feel I am admitting to doing something wrong by telling someone I am sorry... but I am telling that person "I wish that wasn't happening to you"... it is the way I communicate and I am trying to unlearn it.

julia



xxblushesxx -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 6:14:40 PM)

Strumpet, I totally understand the "I'm sorry" thing. I apologize for...what others do, what I do, what others don't do, what I don't do, and sometimes I'm not even sure why, but...I just say it.

I'm sorry to have interupted this thread.[:-]



dcfirmhand -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 6:24:04 PM)


quote:

I know of a man who sees himself in a "Dominant way, A Master of sort." I have learned that His way of thinking is that " It is better to assume forgiveness then to ask for it." I found that mentality to be extremely arrogant, and it shows little respect for the one who feels they have been violated. For me, not wanting to apologize show no remose, and seems less then human, am I placing way to much value in " The Apology"?


Sabirah, hold firm to your upbringing because it will bring you far more value and respect than this man's way of thinking. An apology shows empathy and respect, and those are attributes that you cannot place too much value upon.

You are correct that a "better to assume forgiveness than to ask for it" mindset is arrogant and disrespectful and, yes, "less than human" . . . in fact, the inability to experience remorse is one of the classic characteristics of a sociopath. Not to say this man you know is a sociopath -- that would be impossible to tell from just your brief description. But it is useful to be aware of that connection and keep your eyes open for other red flags.

Regret or remorse or guilt -- whatever the emotion is that drives one to apologize or ask forgiveness -- indicates an ability to empathize with another and recognize that some action for which you are responsible may have caused an undesired outcome for another. If a person can't (or consciously refuses to) experience that empathy, then I would be concerned about being around that person. Someone like that could do you damage without recognizing -- or caring -- that they are inflicting that damage. That would make me especially nervous in a D/s relationship, because a Dom with that attitude may feel entitled to cross limits wantonly, or not even be aware that he's doing so. I believe a Dom really must be able to empathize with the sub -- be able to perceive and understand her feelings -- to be effective at guiding their experience.



Bound2One -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 6:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

My Daddy thinks I apologize way too much for things that are not appropriate to apologize for. I have a hard time not saying I am sorry for almost everything, including things that other people do... just weird that way, and I am unsure as to why I do it.

julia



Julia, I do the very same thing!  Now that I'm conscious that I do it, I'm making myself nuts too.  lol  I'll say 'I'm sorry' about something that I have no control over whatsoever.  Annoying habit of mine ....



conquer4love -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 6:34:42 PM)

I am a man and personally, even though I am the dominant in the relationship and the dominant figure in my family I still apologize when I do something wrong. I feel its a sign of respect and being a respectful person. I also say "thank you" a lot to people, if they are giving information or just saying something nice, I follow with a thank you.

A lot comes down to how I was raised, a lot comes down to the fact that I try and respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. My position in the world is to be dominant to my sub and family, not to attempt to dominate the rest of the world.

P.s. I use the saying "its easer to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission", but my sub better not think that way :P hehe

~~conquer4love~~




dcfirmhand -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 6:41:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bound2One

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

My Daddy thinks I apologize way too much for things that are not appropriate to apologize for. I have a hard time not saying I am sorry for almost everything, including things that other people do... just weird that way, and I am unsure as to why I do it.

julia



Julia, I do the very same thing! Now that I'm conscious that I do it, I'm making myself nuts too. lol I'll say 'I'm sorry' about something that I have no control over whatsoever. Annoying habit of mine ....


Julia & Bound2One, I think that's not an uncommon trait among subs. Some people (particularly some subs) have a strong desire to please or accommodate everyone around them, and that leads them to say "I'm sorry" to a lot of things that aren't really theirs to take responsibility for.

It doesn't help that "I'm sorry" has too almost contradictory uses. Sometimes "I'm sorry" is used as an expression of sympathy (e.g. a way to say "I understand that the circumstances you've experienced have caused you pain") and sometimes "I'm sorry" is used as an apology or expression of regret (e.g. a way to say "I understand that something I did has caused you pain"). I think what you're probably doing is saying "I'm sorry" out of sympathy . . . but that can be easily confused with the apologetic use of "I'm sorry."

So one solution -- which Julia alluded to earlier -- is to get more specific in your communication. When you're trying to express sympathy for someone's situation, something like "I wish that wasn't happening to you" or "I can imagine how hard that must be for you" is a more specific and probably more effective way to communicate than "I'm sorry."




tsatske -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 8:33:34 PM)

I did not mean to imply that Americans or American companies NEVER take responsibility, nor that other cultures always do. Both would be ridiculous generalizations. I meant that it seems to me to be a dangerous and disturbing trend in that direction.
And in spite of the fact that, the opposite of that trend does indeed happen, and when it does, it would seem that companies would take instruction from it, and learn that it works well in preserving their company through crisis, that, in fact, people appreciate when responsibility is taken. When Tylenol suffered from the cooperate terrors that released poisoned pills on the public, I think the only thing that saved their company was that they stepped forward and took responsibility, instead of trying to avoid it.

julia, as one adacted to saying 'I'm sorry' ( I say it too often), I tell people, it is of no use to ask a person adicted to apologizing to stop doing it - they will just apologize for apologizing.



conquer4love -> RE: my apologies (3/9/2008 10:01:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
julia, as one adacted to saying 'I'm sorry' ( I say it too often), I tell people, it is of no use to ask a person adicted to apologizing to stop doing it - they will just apologize for apologizing.

I am not addicted to it, but my sub is, and your comment is so very very true.

~~conquer4love~~



Dnomyar -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 5:19:10 AM)

Im sorry that I even read the thread down this far.



TreasureKY -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 6:04:33 AM)

Firm has told me more than once, "better to ask for forgiveness than permission."  I'm waiting for the perfect opportunity to see how that really works.  [;)]



sabirah -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 8:06:31 AM)

I  thank you to all who viewed and replied to my post, lots of drive bye's and a few very good and honest responses. Somehow my thread took a turn once it was equated with corporate america.  Bean, I wished to express a special thank you for your reply, as I noticed you have been here since 2005, and your first chime in  was to my post. Julie, I too find myself being overly apologetic, I know that this stems from abuse, sustained early in my childhood. I strive to over come it, learning to think before I talk, usually the 3 second rule works for me. (I think it over in my head before speaking)  Well wishes to everyone.



adrian28 -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 12:28:16 PM)

A man who can't admit his own fault is just a boy who's pretending. It's shameful for a dominant to assume forgiveness instead of having the decency to ask. We may be in control but, that doesn't mean we're always right. That's my take on it, anyway.



Stephann -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 12:38:52 PM)

Erm, not to cut the man off at the knees, but a man who can't/won't admit fault isn't a boy.  He's a man who might have trouble communicating, who might have guilt issues, or he might be a garden variety asshole.  The fellow you're describing earlier sounds like he's in column C, sure enough, but there's no sense in throwing the man out with the bathwater (so to speak.)

Stephan



Missokyst -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 2:03:44 PM)

Just curious.. he wouldn't have grown up in the 70's would he?  I swear that movie Love Story did more harm than good.  "love means never having to say you're sorry."  Gakkkkkkkkkk..
It is not only arrogant it creates an atmosphere of general disregard.
Kyst



MRandme -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 7:13:11 PM)

A position of authority is not weakened by an admission of wrongdoing and an apology. As a teacher and parent, i have often found myself apologizing to those i have had authority over and it only strengthened my position over them.

i would have less respect for a Dominant who could not admit He was at fault or tell me He was sorry for a mistake.  It shows that the respect is mutual and that i have worth as a person to Him.

A Man has the balls to take responsibility for His actions and apologize.

g

(edited to fix typo)



DesFIP -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 7:25:21 PM)

It means you aren't compatible. He may feel that changing his behavior, correcting his mistakes is more than enough, that he doesn't need to say he apologizes as well. But you require a spoken acknowledgment of wrong doing as well. Neither of you are right or wrong, you just don't fit well together. He might fit fine with someone who doesn't need the words and for them, not saying it wouldn't be a big deal.

Just as you were taught to apologize, he was taught to change his ways. You're both showing your upbringing.



IronOre -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 7:49:53 PM)

I believe that apologies are important to most people. They are not to me, and so I have a hard time apologizing. I still make an effort to none the less because I have learned (the hard way) that other people need them. For me though, I don't need to to tell me you were wrong, I already know you were, and I don't need you to tell me that you know you were wrong, just don't do it again. I try to live with out hurting people (outside of play of course) and if I think something is wrong I don't do it. And I certainly don't do it, feel badly about it and apologize.



thefirst121 -> RE: my apologies (3/10/2008 7:51:43 PM)

An apology is given when one believes they have wronged someone, it does matter whether this is a Dom or sub, if it is not given you can only really assume they do not feel they have done something wrong.  You can never assume the other way round.
 
Having said that it is not always shown in words and at times the actions or gifts are more powerful than a clumsy apology.  The act of acceptance can not be assumed also, just because someone apologises it does not mean they are forgiven this also needs addressing and again, the actions can mean a lot more than the words.
 
It is a bigger person that recognises their faults and takes action to remedy mistakes, than the person who believes they can do no wrong.



LeatherBentOne -> RE: my apologies (3/11/2008 8:24:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabirah

I am new here and thought I would jump right in, and post something that I am struggling with. I was programmed from a very early age in my life to sincerely apologize if I did something wrong. I thought  it was taught to me so that I could look within and humble myself and accept my responsibility for my error in judgement. It also allows me to purge so that I do not have to carry the  heavy weight of my quilt, for my bad behavior. I know of a man who sees himself in a "Dominant way, A Master of sort." I have learned that His way of thinking is that  " It is better to assume forgiveness then to ask for it." I found that mentality to be extremely arrogant, and it shows little respect for the one who feels they have been violated.  For me, not wanting to apologize show no remose, and seems less then human, am I placing way to much value in  " The Apology"?


As a Domme, I apologise if I think I did something wrong.  If I think I didnt do anything wrong, I'll say, "Im sorry if I offended you, and that you feel that way; however, that was not my intent."  And, I leave things at that, in an effort to validify another's feelings because I know they are real, even though I still believe I did nothing wrong.  Not every person perceives the same situation the same way, and I can appreciate our differences.

Personally, I'd be a bit leary of someone who felt that alology is assumed because I would tend to think that they feel that so is forgiveness.  To apolgise is usually the prelude to asking for forgiveness, but I take that one step further.

I will ask a submissive who has erred in judgement, "What are you prepared to do to see that this offense doesn't happen again?"  This opens up a constructive line of communication which is so much more important to the welfare of the relationship to begin with.  It also thwarts  a submissive from just going through the motions of an apology, and leaving the submissive to think they pulled something over on me.

LBO



IronBear -> RE: my apologies (3/11/2008 11:11:59 AM)

A quote from the film "Dragon": It is better to ask forgiveness after than to ask permission... However making an appology for something which may have breached some rule or other or caused some form of hurt and is the apollogy is genuinly sincere is a mark of good manners and etequette and shows good breeding. An unsincere appology is a gross insult.  This is true in my worls and circle of friends, family and society anyway.

IB



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