Female Tops and Sex (Full Version)

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khem -> Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 7:52:42 PM)

I have a question for the other female tops.  I have noticed (but correct me if I'm wrong) that most female tops tend to withhold sexual contact or sex itself with partners (both in the beginning of relationships and throughout).  I can understand this from a power perspective and I've certainly used it myself.  Yet, when I consider the majority of male tops, there's almost always sex of some sort and it's usually early.  Do you use the differences self control (with regard to sex) as a power play?  Do you ever feel pressure from the community to not be sexual, simply because you are a female dominant? 

It seems to me (although I know I'm making huge generalizations and of course there are exceptions) that it's generally acceptable for bottoms (male and female) to be wanton sluts (meaning that they express desire for sexual activities enthusiastically).  Also, for a male top to be a horny little bastard, it's also kind of expected and accepted.  However, when it comes to female tops, it seems like those who act very sexual or engage in sex play with subs are looked down on.  It almost seems like the top women are expected to control everything - even their own desire, to a much greater extent than the others.  Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed this?  Also, have you at any point felt pressure to limit your play (especially with new subs) so that it does not include sexual aspects that you would otherwise mutually want? 

I can think of times in the past when I was much newer to things and wanted to be sexual with a submissive, but told myself that I could not do that because it would be giving up too much power or I'd be looked down on.  I'm reformed my thinking somewhat, but what do you guys think?



Najakcharmer -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 7:56:02 PM)

Some of it could just be that female tops are in much higher demand and may have a line of play partners literally out the door.  If we had direct sexual contact with every one of our casual play partners at an event, our risk of STD's would be somewhat alarming by the day's end.  More men than women are willing to have casual sexual contact with multiple partners, though of course there are exceptions on both ends of the gender spectrum. 

If I actually own someone, I most likely will be using them for sex.  A casual play-spanky partner I meet at an event, not so much. 



MsLadySue -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 7:57:51 PM)

Personally I don't use lack of sex as power control. I'm very choosey and the boy has to earn that privilege which takes a lot of time before I find the right comfort level to allow the dynamic to flow in that direction.



khem -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:06:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

If we had direct sexual contact with every one of our casual play partners at an event, our risk of STD's would be somewhat alarming by the day's end.



Oh I was making the assumption that most people do practice safer sex- that's a whole nother can of worms [&:]



ShaktiSama -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:09:04 PM)

I like boys who put out, myself.  Sadly, not all of them do--more than a few male submissives are averse to intercourse, and for some it is even a hard limit.  I agree with your assessment of male dominants--they're a lot less likely to spare the rod!  It's one of the things about them that is sex-ay.



MisPandora -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:14:43 PM)

I find your observations to be moreso stereotypes and expectations that are not the reality of everyone you might encounter.  Personally, I'll use my property for whatever I damn well please :-)



khem -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:16:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

I find your observations to be moreso stereotypes and expectations that are not the reality of everyone you might encounter.  Personally, I'll use my property for whatever I damn well please :-)


This was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for - trying to sort out if it was reality or all in my head.  (Or in anyone else's head, for that matter)



crouchingtigress -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:16:26 PM)

It really depends on the chemistry.



darchChylde -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:26:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khem
it's generally acceptable for bottoms (male and female) to be wanton sluts (meaning that they express desire for sexual activities enthusiastically).


Actually, i've found the exact opposite to be true; male submissives are generally not allowed to even admit to wanting sex.  Enjoying sex seems to be the first sign of a "do me bottom" if you're a male submissive.



MsIncontrol -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:28:48 PM)

I use my submissive in every which way I please.  I think you are correct in saying many female dominants do not have sexual relationships with their submissives.  In my experience..it hasn't much to do with it not being in control or a submissive act, although I have heard other dommes on here refer to sex with a submissive as such or as strictly out of the question.

A few submissive men I've met or played with didn't think dommes allowed sex and didn't feel worthy.  But after getting to discussing this with them it was mostly because their previous experiences were with pro-dommes...who did not engage sexually with clients.  Instead of saying..I'm not a prostitute, I am a dominant...they make sex the allusive thing that submissive men aren't worthy of...thus creating this mindset. Great for the pro, to keep the men wanting and using that as their tool.  Not so great for those of us lifestyle dominants who like to use their submissive sexually and otherwise.

Also, I think many/most of the submissives I have had the pleasure of being with...are much more submissive/agreeable/service oriented when their dick is hard.  So, keeping him in that state and denying release is beneficial to service at times.



aidan -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:34:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

If we had direct sexual contact with every one of our casual play partners at an event, our risk of STD's would be somewhat alarming by the day's end.



Oh I was making the assumption that most people do practice safer sex- that's a whole nother can of worms [&:]



Well, even if you use the pill, wear a condom, whatever, lots of sex with numerous partners will raise your chances for STDs. It's just a numbers game.

Personally, I've always been kind of "slutty" (which is to say, giving and open to people I like) with every aspect of sex except actual intercourse, but recent events have kind of made me rethink that concept. I don't think I would need sex to be with somebody, but I'm starting to realize how much of a road-block I'm putting in front of myself.



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:38:31 PM)

I find it a total double standard, but as a Pro Domme - works to the womans advantage (for once) that I am OFF LIMITS to men I session with.

In my personal relationship however, I love intimacy, and get to set the tone, pace, and decide what we will or won't do. There are times I am pleased (sexually) but he will not be - for a variety of reasons. I have read things about "Dominant vs. submissive sexual positions" and personally think it is BS - if I want something, and tell my boy that is what I want - I don't see that as submissive. In fact, after the first time I had him "on top" -  he jokingly asked "wasn't that a Dominant position" for him...my reply - a wicked grin, an evil laugh...and him knowing without my having to say a word that he was going to catch the tail end of "the bitch" (my favorite whip) for such as silly question!




khem -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:44:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan


Well, even if you use the pill, wear a condom, whatever, lots of sex with numerous partners will raise your chances for STDs. It's just a numbers game.



I was refering more to attitudes than sleeping around, but point taken.  There are lots of ways to significantly reduce risks, including hauling the person in question to your local clinic and retesting in six months. [:D]



CoasttoCoast -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 8:50:49 PM)

A lot of the lack of sex in prodom culture seems to come from a misogynistic madonna/whore type complex on behalf of the men who are into it. When I top females, I use them how I please. I like seeing them come, i like fucking them. I can't imagine why a female would refrain from using a male in the same way unless they'd become caught up  in the bullshit femdom culture.
Bitchy jones diary is a good femdom blog that spends a lot of time protesting against that kind of mindset. Definetly worth a read.



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 9:08:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoasttoCoast

A lot of the lack of sex in prodom culture seems to come from a misogynistic madonna/whore type complex on behalf of the men who are into it. When I top females, I use them how I please. I like seeing them come, i like fucking them. I can't imagine why a female would refrain from using a male in the same way unless they'd become caught up  in the bullshit femdom culture.
Bitchy jones diary is a good femdom blog that spends a lot of time protesting against that kind of mindset. Definetly worth a read.



hmmm...and here I thought the lack of sex as a Pro Domme was more because it would be illegal...but PLEASE, let's not have a Pro Domme debate [sm=horse.gif]

I don't see the madonna/whore complex with the men who are subs at all - more that the release for them is about exchanging power - giving control over to a woman, and finding pleasure in her happiness, the eroticism of the fetishes they bottom, and in fact - they often ENJOY the chastity - or tease and denial, rather than the orgasm itself...I also believe that BDSM can be just as much more mental than physical - after all, the mind is the greatest sex organ!



khem -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 9:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoasttoCoast

A lot of the lack of sex in prodom culture seems to come from a misogynistic madonna/whore type complex on behalf of the men who are into it. When I top females, I use them how I please. I like seeing them come, i like fucking them. I can't imagine why a female would refrain from using a male in the same way unless they'd become caught up  in the bullshit femdom culture.
Bitchy jones diary is a good femdom blog that spends a lot of time protesting against that kind of mindset. Definetly worth a read.



hmmm...and here I thought the lack of sex as a Pro Domme was more because it would be illegal...but PLEASE, let's not have a Pro Domme debate [sm=horse.gif]

I don't see the madonna/whore complex with the men who are subs at all - more that the release for them is about exchanging power - giving control over to a woman, and finding pleasure in her happiness, the eroticism of the fetishes they bottom, and in fact - they often ENJOY the chastity - or tease and denial, rather than the orgasm itself...I also believe that BDSM can be just as much more mental than physical - after all, the mind is the greatest sex organ!



I'd never seen the dead horse icon - that's great! 

I personally do not relate to what was said about the "madona/whore" complex thing.  Also, I was asking the question assuming the sexual contact was legal, consensual, etc etc.  This makes me want to post a separate question asking whether Pros are seen as the "face" of a female dominant - IE, the things they represent and methods they use (no sex, payment, etc). 



Lashra -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 9:33:20 PM)

I always have sex in my play and thats because I own one male sub. I wouldn't be able to Top someone without sex being involved it just gets me too hot. So, I stick to my slut.[;)]

~Lashra



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 9:46:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khem
I personally do not relate to what was said about the "madona/whore" complex thing.  Also, I was asking the question assuming the sexual contact was legal, consensual, etc etc.  This makes me want to post a separate question asking whether Pros are seen as the "face" of a female dominant - IE, the things they represent and methods they use (no sex, payment, etc). 


I can't speak for all Pro Dommes - obviously - but I do not think that Pros are seen as the "face" of a female Dominant. I know plenty of married women who are lifestyle Dommes, and have subs that they do not take tribute or have sex with. I know I will get flack for this, but ok, I'll put it out there...I believe woman think more with what is between their ears than what is between their legs...that they can control a man without having sex, and both parties can totally find pleasure in that power exchange. I Dominate out of confidence...and I have met some female subs that do not have the close to that self esteem (I am NOT downing female subs) but those I KNEW would have seen their male Doms NOT wanting sex with them as some problem, an insecurity. I just feel the Dominant women don't need sex as much to validate them as a submissive woman does. I also think the submissive men that I have encountered (most, not all) are actually very secure with themselves.

IMO, more women will truly have feelings of love with a man they have sex with - but that goes for vanilla as well. Often, it is said that women are more emotional about sex, their hearts and gentials are more connected. I think women in general (and just from biological standpoint - born w/a set # of eggs to fertilize) tend to be less promiscuos then men (who are constantly making sperm), and even in a poly situation or any type of multiple sex partners, more apt to be open and honest than men. I realize I am generalizing, and there is the exception to any rule.

Even in the vanilla world, I often felt it was the most secure men that were not threatened by an intelligent, confident woman. I love to reward a man who submits to me, and serves me well...I just don't have to do it in such a way that it ends up with him having an orgasm.




Stephann -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/9/2008 10:13:05 PM)

I hold the opposing position; Professional female dominants tend to be the most advertised form of female dominance (for good or ill) and I think this results in a skewered perspective on the desires of female dominants.  Add to this the number of professed female dominants who are interested strictly in financial slavery, and the female 'dominants' who aready have a male dominant partner and are only seeking female submissives, and you're left with a pretty scant handful of dominant women who actually enjoy their submissive males, sexually.

Historically, men (dominant or submissive) are expected to desire sex.  Male dominants are seen as empowered to 'take' sex from their sexually submissive partners (I know I firmly fall into that category.)  Women traditionally are expected to be the gatekeepers; restricting when and how men have sex.  Female submissives aren't (usually) permitted this position, thus their expressions of sexuality are in keeping with being 'good' submissives.  Thus female dominants are unique in their status as gatekeepers of sex.  I won't even address the number of female dominants who prefer other women, exclusively. 

Yet MisPandora is spot on.  If a female dominant, within the bounds of her relationship, desires to enjoy her submissive/slave in one fashion or another, that's entirely her perogative.  She needn't apologize to anyone for her desires and tastes.

As a male dominant who grew up in a female dominated household, it took me no small amount of time to learn I didn't need to apologize for what or why I enjoyed what I did.  I think this is part of the maturation process.

Regards,

Stephan



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/10/2008 1:07:48 AM)

If I can control someone through sex, I don't particularly want them. I don't use sex as a tool for control. Sex is for my gratification...and sometimes theirs.

Be yourself and don't worry about what everyone else does.

Master Fire



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