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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:42:24 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Muslims are the new easy target, that's all.
 

 
These boards alone confirm this. It's unfortunate that people constantly seek to make a few responsible for the entire ills of the many.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:42:38 PM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

 Nuclear energy can power entire cities, or turn them to rubble.  It has nothing to do with the tool, everything to do with how man manipulates it.



I have used this exact example myself many times. Anyone who has been comforted by faith in moments of great pain, will tell you it helped when many other things could not. Similarly, anyone destroyed by faith will tell you it was more cruel than anything else ...

The faith stayed the same ... only the application differed

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:43:04 PM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin


Maybe just me, but the enemy in our midst is the media, they are the new all powerful rabble rousers,



Marx once said "religion is the opiate of the masses" I believe that statment would work very very very well as "the media is the opiate of the masses"


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:43:53 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I cant work out if you are just immature or stupid. I`m not religious but i have respect for others views of it. To class them all as "Half witted" Or "Having mental problems" just because someones view dont match your own is stupidity personified.


If I had a view that Earth was actually a giant turtle which looks like a planet that's going to uncurl in ten years, thus causing an end to the world.. and I had no evidence nor arguements for it.. would you respect my view?

If so, we have very different views of what respect is.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:44:24 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

"the media is the opiate of the masses"



Entertainment certainly is.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:45:02 PM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		I do usually enjoy reading your posts CL, but when you start off like this, I just cannot take you seriously, just as I cannot take the view of any fundamentalist, which is what you are - just against religion instead of being active.
I just find it curious (no pun intended) how a fundementalist reacts to fundementalism.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:45:48 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

 Nuclear energy can power entire cities, or turn them to rubble.  It has nothing to do with the tool, everything to do with how man manipulates it.



I have used this exact example myself many times. Anyone who has been comforted by faith in moments of great pain, will tell you it helped when many other things could not. Similarly, anyone destroyed by faith will tell you it was more cruel than anything else ...

The faith stayed the same ... only the application differed


I think we can all agree that it influences people strongly.  That it can have what may qualify as positive, healthy effects on one's life.

But does the fact that the beliefs which induce these otherwise healthy effects are false matter, or is that a moot point?

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:47:02 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

England was a Christian country, we view other faiths as 'invaders' or whatever, I know that here it is far easier to demonise the 'other' becuase thats just what we do, its institutionalised bigotry, read the way that newspapers talk about muslims etc.




I dont see the signs of this that you do. Britain has a long history of being tolerant towards other faiths entering this country. Sure one or two sensationalised comments appear in the press from time to time, its hardly "institutionalised bigotry" though.


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:47:22 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I've always felt that the mixture of religions was a wonderful argument for atheism.  And I've always felt it's insane to believe in something that there's not evidence for- such as believing that there's going to be a cow in the next room an individual steps into when there's no reason to believe it.  I mean, sure, there could be, but it's insane to think that there is, you know?  I'd argue the same with God.

I mean, there could be some sort of being which loosely meets the qualifications of "God".  But as long as there's no evidence for it- even if it happens to be correct- it's insane to think that there is.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ”
—Stephen F. Roberts


Again, it's a very old debate that's been fought before our great grandparents were born.  To assume there is no God, suggests an equally implausible concept; that the Universe just appeared.  Logic dictates that everything comes from something, and that matter is always constantly changing.  The fact that we are able to have this conversation, to me, suggests there was some form of intelligent design behind it.  The plausibility of life springing, and that some form of life was capable of conscious thought?  It boggles my mind.

Science doesn't believe in coincidence.  Everything has a source.  What you might call 'some being' I'll call God.  Either way, considering the immense value this tool we call Religion has in helping people understand their world, I'd be more than happy to live in a world of people who are good and kind, even if they believe in a false God.

Stephan

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:47:30 PM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I cant work out if you are just immature or stupid. I`m not religious but i have respect for others views of it. To class them all as "Half witted" Or "Having mental problems" just because someones view dont match your own is stupidity personified.


If I had a view that Earth was actually a giant turtle which looks like a planet that's going to uncurl in ten years, thus causing an end to the world.. and I had no evidence nor arguements for it.. would you respect my view?

If so, we have very different views of what respect is.


this is a classic misapplication of  reducto ad absurdium .. in which cases the only thing it reduces to absurdity is the person using it.

I can sit here and offer you a plethera of arguments, evidence and even experience which proves the world is round and not carried on the back od a turtle .. 

can you do they same for why there is NOT a God?

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veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:47:46 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		When you define "fundamentalist" as a person with an extreme view, I qualify as such.  My distaste for religion is extraordinary.

However, is an extreme view the only thing needed to be a fundamentalist?  I've always felt that to be a fundamentalist, one must have some sort of faith-based assumption going on.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:48:57 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

When you define "fundamentalist" as a person with an extreme view, I qualify as such.  My distaste for religion is extraordinary.

However, is an extreme view the only thing needed to be a fundamentalist?  I've always felt that to be a fundamentalist, one must have some sort of faith-based assumption going on.


One needn't be religious, to have fundamentalist attitudes.  Marx springs to mind.

Stephan


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:49:32 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

can you do they same for why there is NOT a God?


I could look up the article on a pedophile kidnapping, raping, killing, raping again, then skinning (or was it dismembering?) a young girl in Florida if you'd like.

Or is there some other sort of evidence you're looking for..?

PS-  My apologies for the vulgar example, but I think it's fairly decent evidence against the typical notion of a God that's concerned with the well being of its creations.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 3/11/2008 12:51:04 PM >

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:50:48 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I cant work out if you are just immature or stupid. I`m not religious but i have respect for others views of it. To class them all as "Half witted" Or "Having mental problems" just because someones view dont match your own is stupidity personified.


If I had a view that Earth was actually a giant turtle which looks like a planet that's going to uncurl in ten years, thus causing an end to the world.. and I had no evidence nor arguements for it.. would you respect my view?

If so, we have very different views of what respect is.


Nice try at deflecting my point. Sadly for you, most people here will see through your charade. As for respect, theres a difference between respecting peoples views and calling them half witted.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:50:58 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		No.  Faith isn't the qualifier - belief is.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:51:02 PM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

England was a Christian country, we view other faiths as 'invaders' or whatever, I know that here it is far easier to demonise the 'other' becuase thats just what we do, its institutionalised bigotry, read the way that newspapers talk about muslims etc.




I dont see the signs of this that you do. Britain has a long history of being tolerant towards other faiths entering this country. Sure one or two sensationalised comments appear in the press from time to time, its hardly "institutionalised bigotry" though.




Maybe I am just more pessimistic, I just notice that when a Muslim does soemthing wrong (even outside the realms of their religion, steal a car or whatever) Its pointed out that they are indeed a Muslim, same can be said of race to an extenet, you never hear a story prefixed with white christian, just in my experiance.

I come froma  very white area and there is a heck of a lot of stupid prejudice here because its seen as the 'other' or differant. May just be my experiance tho


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:51:28 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I think we can all agree that it influences people strongly.  That it can have what may qualify as positive, healthy effects on one's life.

But does the fact that the beliefs which induce these otherwise healthy effects are false matter, or is that a moot point?


I don't think it matters if the pill was sugar, or penicillin, so long as the infection goes away.

The belief that my life will get better has nothing to do with my life actually getting better.  The point is, ultimately, that if people find comfort in faith in God, they have found comfort where they had none before.  Perhaps they might have found it elsewhere, but many folks aren't wired that way.

Stephan


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:52:55 PM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

can you do they same for why there is NOT a God?


I could look up the article on a pedophile kidnapping, raping, killing, raping again, then skinning (or was it dismembering?) a young girl in Florida if you'd like.

Or is there some other sort of evidence you're looking for..?

PS-  My apologies for the vulgar example, but I think it's fairly decent evidence against the typical notion of a God that's concerned with the well being of its creations.


*scratches head*

no .. that offers me evidence that humanity is able to particpate in acts of great evil

it might even offer me evidence that God does not micromanage the everday actions of people to whom He gave free will

it in no way stands as evidence that He does not exist

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veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:55:03 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

can you do they same for why there is NOT a God?


I could look up the article on a pedophile kidnapping, raping, killing, raping again, then skinning (or was it dismembering?) a young girl in Florida if you'd like.

Or is there some other sort of evidence you're looking for..?

PS-  My apologies for the vulgar example, but I think it's fairly decent evidence against the typical notion of a God that's concerned with the well being of its creations.


It's not God's job to tell us how to live; if he's already written the script, why bother with the show?

These sorts of examples (vulgar or otherwise) and others, such as earthquakes and tornades, make the assumption that God wants us all to live happy, carefree, trouble free lives.  In reality, I think there's an expectation of balance.  We're expected to keep that balance ourselves.  There are saints (as it were) and there are demons, both in human form (I'm speaking metephorically here.)  This isn't God's fault; the man responsible for those atrocities is personally responsible, not God.

Stephan


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/11/2008 12:55:21 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

One needn't be religious, to have fundamentalist attitudes.  Marx springs to mind.

 
I think we may be referring to different words here.  From Wikipedia's article on fundamentalism:

The term "fundamentalist" has since been generalized to mean strong adherence to any set of beliefs in the face of criticism or unpopularity
[..]
"Fundamentalist" has also been used pejoratively against those who hold an intransigent set of beliefs. The term has been used to characterize religious advocates as clinging to a stubborn, entrenched position that defies reasoned argument or contradictory evidence.

To me, being a fundamentalist means holding beliefs in contrary to reason and evidence.

How do you typically think of the word?

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