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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:40:48 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Sure, there are drill bits in my tool belt too.  They serve a purpose.  The ankle restraints I slap on charlotte at night serve a 'purpose' to keep her from running away at night.  Yet, practically speaking, they're real purpose is to make her (and me) feel good. 

That's what faith does; it gives a sense of 'good' or 'right' in the world.  Religion is a tool to spread that faith.  Like KittenSol said, you're not going to find any empiracle evidence to that fact.  You have to decide what value it holds, for you, if any at all, for it to actually have value.  Otherwise, they're like her red restraints dangling on your wall; useless if you don't care to use them.

Stephan


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:43:36 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		It's silly to think there's a God, or an afterlife though!  That's my point.

I mean, if someone wants to believe that they should turn the other cheek all of the time- I might offer arguments against that- but to believe that there's an omnipotent, omniscent creator?  Now that's just silly.

Again, I'm arguing against (for example) Christianity, particularly with regard to mythology, not the moral beliefs of Christians.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:50:46 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I believe that which makes us who we are endures after death.  I don't feel we were meant to live our lives to the depth that we do, only to have it evaporate into the great emptiness of time and space.  If this is 'all' we are, and all we will ever be, I certainly haven't lost anything through the faith that I have in my own sense of spirit, soul, and continued existance, in some form, and it takes no effort on my part to hold this belief.  You needn't agree; neither of us will know until one of us actually dies.

Why waste the effort to say it's silly in the first place?

Stephan


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:55:39 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Why in Karana's name would I read works of silly ficiton by authors too delussional to realize that they're without reason?



Wow... just wow... you have no respect for authors you haven't even read. That completely destroys any argumentation you may have, in my book. Are you that closed off to knowledge, even though you're supposedly studying at university? Man! It doesn't bode well for the future. Do you understand that all knowledge is good? Dive in, and learn!

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/12/2008 4:20:20 PM >

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:57:29 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		That argument's Pascal's Wager (that one loses nothing in belief if wrong, but gains so much if right).

Still, the reasons I'd go out of my way to call it silly were given in a previous post:
1.  I think it's distasteful to believe in a falsehood.
2.  If we don't believe in some divine being giving us eternal life, we might go on and seek it, and we might find longer, happier lives.

PS- I haven't said it yet, but there is a huge amount of wonderous philosophy that's difficult for people to begin to understand while working under the religious assumptions.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 3/12/2008 3:59:44 PM >

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 3:58:05 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		For crying out loud. And I'm not even a believer. Fuck.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:00:06 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I believe that which makes us who we are endures after death.  I don't feel we were meant to live our lives to the depth that we do, only to have it evaporate into the great emptiness of time and space.  If this is 'all' we are, and all we will ever be, I certainly haven't lost anything through the faith that I have in my own sense of spirit, soul, and continued existance, in some form, and it takes no effort on my part to hold this belief.  You needn't agree; neither of us will know until one of us actually dies.

Why waste the effort to say it's silly in the first place?

Stephan


quote:

domiguy
The fact that we are "all alone" just seems so cold, depressing and fills people with a trepidation that everything is meaningless....Quite the contrary. You live for today. The world you leave behind and the actions you take is how you will be remembered. You live like a shithead there is no bedside miracle....No acceptance of the Holy Spirit to bail yourself out.




It's rather funny...That we feel the need to be greater than our years on this planet. We have such an ego.


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:01:15 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I believe that which makes us who we are endures after death.  I don't feel we were meant to live our lives to the depth that we do, only to have it evaporate into the great emptiness of time and space.  If this is 'all' we are, and all we will ever be, I certainly haven't lost anything through the faith that I have in my own sense of spirit, soul, and continued existance, in some form, and it takes no effort on my part to hold this belief.  You needn't agree; neither of us will know until one of us actually dies.

Why waste the effort to say it's silly in the first place?

Stephan


quote:

domiguy
The fact that we are "all alone" just seems so cold, depressing and fills people with a trepidation that everything is meaningless....Quite the contrary. You live for today. The world you leave behind and the actions you take is how you will be remembered. You live like a shithead there is no bedside miracle....No acceptance of the Holy Spirit to bail yourself out.




It's rather funny...That we feel the need to be greater than our years on this planet. We have such an ego.



You of all people should realize what happens to a man's ego, when his cock exceeds the size of his arm .


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:02:06 PM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		I want to be more practical ...
 
If you believe God exists and choose to abide him, and you end up being wrong ... you aren't out very much. If you choose not to believe in God, and you are wrong ... you are pretty much fucked.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:02:11 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Wow... just wow... you have no respect for authors you haven't even read. That completely destroys any argumentation you may have, in my book. Are you that closed off to knowledge, even though you're supposedly studying at university? Man! It doesn't forbade well for the future. Do you understand that all knowledge is good? Dive in, and learn!


Here, I think you're missing two things.
1-  Conclusions based off fallacy are, themselves, fallacy.
2-  There are a ton of things out there to read that are far more intelligent.

Why would I read the works of simple-minded mad men when there are so many works by brilliant individuals I haven't read?

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:02:49 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		For godsake.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:03:15 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

because i dont, I cant prove to myself what I feel is love, i cant quantify it, and compare it to other people, it just is

the whole if you cant prove it its not there thoery is redundent

it is the theory of relativity, the theory of gravity, not the fact, science changes daily, its not conclusive proof, people feel there is a god, people get emotions in church, and thats less valid why? because you say so? Well ill just do a statistical analysis of everyone who has felt god, everyone who has sensed energy everyone who feels that their religion helps them then its proof right?
Theory, in Science, does not mean what you think it means.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:03:53 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I want to be more practical ...
 
If you believe God exists and choose to abide him, and you end up being wrong ... you aren't out very much. If you choose not to believe in God, and you are wrong ... you are pretty much fucked.


And if there's a different God.. one who is offended in your blind belief in your current God (such as the Christian God), then you're still fucked.  So how is Pascal's Wager valid when there's a multitude of possible God's?

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:04:10 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Never mind, Curious... your obstination will not leave you... and you will only grow more secure in your hubristic certainty.

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:06:54 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		If I can make my points, and you can't make yours.. yet you're still convinced you're right.. who has the hubristic certainty again?

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:08:14 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I want to be more practical ...
 
If you believe God exists and choose to abide him, and you end up being wrong ... you aren't out very much. If you choose not to believe in God, and you are wrong ... you are pretty much fucked.


Why? What if it's a God who is way above petty human concerns? What if God's preocupation was far remote from what little individuals such as us believe? Such a God wouldn't give a flying duck's fuck whether you believed in 'it' or not. 

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:09:23 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I want to be more practical ...
 
If you believe God exists and choose to abide him, and you end up being wrong ... you aren't out very much. If you choose not to believe in God, and you are wrong ... you are pretty much fucked.


Why? I don't understand. Why does God insist to have my adoration and praise? I don't require it from ants.


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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:09:52 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

If I can make my points, and you can't make yours.. yet you're still convinced you're right.. who has the hubristic certainty again?


See, there's a catch, right there. I'm not certain about everything; I know that I don't know everything.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/12/2008 4:53:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:11:08 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		You aren't certain that 1+1 != 3?

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RE: Religion and Religiosity - 3/12/2008 4:13:46 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		My sarcasm and wordplay must have been too subtle.

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