RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:25:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

I have friends who have been on the ground for 2 years (a couple of them for 3).  I will have to respectfully disagree with you.


That's not because of anything "Surge" related.

First, you need to keep in mind that "The Surge" refers to a very specific strategy, which legislatively was assessed to have failed miserably. ( 17% of goals achieved. That's a FAILURE ).

Now the reduction in violence? That's because the Ethnic and Sectarian Cleansing are pretty much done... They've KILLED or DRIVEN OFF all the locals they WERE shooting for.




caitlyn -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:25:45 PM)

national ...



pahunkboy -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:32:24 PM)

The truth is that - to the extent the YOU yourself consume energy is the amount of blood on your hands.  These emblems and bumper stickers are  fake-  back it up with  less useage of oil- and energy- meaning items that require energy.

We will leave when no oil can be profitted from.  Canada  is  a HUGE seller to the US market- which blows the get rid of NAFTA idea.

Eastern Europe now being cut off from gas-    hard to say if the chicken came first or the egg.

There are 42 gallons in a barrel.

It would be easier to love big brother if autos that get 45 + MPH were easily available....if the EV1 wasnt killed....if Enron never shut off the lights in California, [burn baby burn]   Enron was the lone exception, or was it?    We live in the age of robber barrons.

So do CEOs  test their toys for lead?  How about  tables, and household bric-a-brac?  

The recent massive beef recall was not evidence theUSDA works as FOXs Bill Oreily claims... they were forced into it via a secret  video.

So weather it is mattle, Shell, walmart, or  "me"  that the warrior is  protecting....





xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:32:40 PM)

Ahhhh, not only do you have an unblemished nose, your another of those with outstanding rearward vision.

Wouldn't it be hard to take if one day the Iraqis were solid allies like other countries we had no business in. WWII wasn't our business in Europe. Or at least at the time that's what folks said.

I don't know, I'm still looking for the truth, I know its been rather elusive up to this point.



quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

national ...



xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:36:14 PM)

Did you steal my friend Rule's tin foil hat?


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

I have friends who have been on the ground for 2 years (a couple of them for 3).  I will have to respectfully disagree with you.


That's not because of anything "Surge" related.

First, you need to keep in mind that "The Surge" refers to a very specific strategy, which legislatively was assessed to have failed miserably. ( 17% of goals achieved. That's a FAILURE ).

Now the reduction in violence? That's because the Ethnic and Sectarian Cleansing are pretty much done... They've KILLED or DRIVEN OFF all the locals they WERE shooting for.





xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:37:46 PM)

Hey mutt, I agree with that, I just don't know if we'll get our way with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

For the record, I'm ALL against long term U.S. bases in Iraq.   It would be tactically helpful, but would be a wonderful recruiting poster for our enemies and solidify the concept of us having occupied Iraq.



Vendaval -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:41:10 PM)

Yes, having bases there is a given, but the concerns raised by Muttling are legitimate.
It is a classic "damned if you do damned if you don't" type of situation. [&:]

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Hey mutt, I agree with that, I just don't know if we'll get our way with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

For the record, I'm ALL against long term U.S. bases in Iraq.   It would be tactically helpful, but would be a wonderful recruiting poster for our enemies and solidify the concept of us having occupied Iraq.




SugarMyChurro -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:48:13 PM)

I see people coming back in bags.

Sadly.



domiguy -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:55:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Ahhhh, not only do you have an unblemished nose, your another of those with outstanding rearward vision.

Wouldn't it be hard to take if one day the Iraqis were solid allies like other countries we had no business in. WWII wasn't our business in Europe. Or at least at the time that's what folks said.

I don't know, I'm still looking for the truth, I know its been rather elusive up to this point.



quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

national ...




We have been incredibly short sighted...I was watching John Stewart last night his guest was Lt. General William Caldwell. A nice enough fellow. Paraphrasing, he said that the army has never been stronger and that our troops were well equiped to take care of the mission at hand...His personal experience was that he never saw a soldier that was not given the proper equipment.

Here is what I found troubling....Lt. General William Caldwell "these young men and woman are out there today they are able to look at a situation that we never could have envisioned....And take and apply the resources, the energy ...One minute they are drinking tea with a sheik, the next minute they are over surveying where they are going to put a well, in the next minute they are taking sniper fire from some insurgent and they are returning fire and the next minute they are over here figuring out where they are going to put another road in."

We had no vision and no preparation as to what we would face upon arriving in Iraq...Everything, and I mean every fucking thing, expressed by this administration as to what we could expect turned out to be false....I would actually prefer using the term "lies." At what point do you stop beating around the bush? Everything was and still is a total fuck job...

It is a disgrace.



xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 3:55:25 PM)

I heard a saying once that would be useful about now.

Death is inevitable; everywhere you go you'll find it. Leave it to politicians to exploit the reality of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I see people coming back in bags.

Sadly.



xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 4:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It is a disgrace.



You are absolutely right about what it has become, what it may have been.

I think that's why it's important to get it right from this point forward.

Bush can be the fuckwad many think, but if we get it wrong as a nation after discovering that, what does that make all of us.

We don't have time or the luxury for bandwagon politics, what's done is done and we aren't Pontius Pilot(spck), we can't just walk, wash our hands and pretend its all better.

I'm not against you DG, while it might have been lies that started this, it must be honorable men(gender neutral) that set it straight. Our nation did the dirty work, and that goes back way further than this War or even Saddam himself.

Putting our noses into this region started way before Caitlyn's nose was part of a seedling in some metaphorical parent's wet dream.



domiguy -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 4:44:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx



Putting our noses into this region started way before Caitlyn's nose was part of a seedling in some metaphorical parent's wet dream.



I think it is about time that I leave caitlyn's nose out of this and in my navel.

caitlyn....Come to Domiguy.



farglebargle -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 4:55:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

For the record, I'm ALL against long term U.S. bases in Iraq.   It would be tactically helpful, but would be a wonderful recruiting poster for our enemies and solidify the concept of us having occupied Iraq.



Since Bush ran away from our bases in Saudi Arabia like a little bitch, where else would the permanent bases go?



farglebargle -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 4:56:55 PM)

quote:


Bush can be the fuckwad many think, but if we get it wrong as a nation after discovering that, what does that make all of us.


Impotent. Your vote is worthless, and not only is the no organized resistance, with the complete surveillance in place, there ain't never going to be an effective organized resistance.

Bush is a dictator, above the Rule of Law. Deal with it. My advice: Try to enjoy the show....




thompsonx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 5:32:53 PM)

Bull:
All wars are fought for no other reason than to fuck  their women and take their dope.  All the rhetoric about warriors making the world safe for democracy is just that...rhetoric... 
What possible reason could the U.S. have for having bases in any country besides the U.S. except to insure that corporate amerika gets it share of the take.
thompson



Sanity -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 5:49:46 PM)

That argument could have been made against every base we (or any other nation) has ever built on foreign soil. It means nothing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

For the record, I'm ALL against long term U.S. bases in Iraq.   It would be tactically helpful, but would be a wonderful recruiting poster for our enemies and solidify the concept of us having occupied Iraq.



thompsonx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 5:53:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That argument could have been made against every base we (or any other nation) has ever built on foreign soil. It means nothing.


Sanity:
As long as you are in favor of colonialism and imperialism it makes perfect sense.
thompson







xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 6:06:53 PM)

Well, it would give her a sense of purpose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx



Putting our noses into this region started way before Caitlyn's nose was part of a seedling in some metaphorical parent's wet dream.



I think it is about time that I leave caitlyn's nose out of this and in my navel.

caitlyn....Come to Domiguy.




Muttling -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 6:13:27 PM)

I disagree.  The Saudi's, Kuwaiti's, UAE, Germans, Italians, South Koreans, and many others requested our presence.  The only bases that are close to this are the Japanese bases when have been in place since we overthrew the government in WWII.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That argument could have been made against every base we (or any other nation) has ever built on foreign soil. It means nothing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

For the record, I'm ALL against long term U.S. bases in Iraq.   It would be tactically helpful, but would be a wonderful recruiting poster for our enemies and solidify the concept of us having occupied Iraq.




xBullx -> RE: "Bush: US vote won't shape Iraq withdrawal" (3/11/2008 6:18:20 PM)

-fast reply-

I just got off the phone with my son. I'm not going to say the name of his base, but he's across town from Anaconda. He said their camp still take mortors every couple weeks and small arms fire a couple times a night, but it used to be all night long and half the day. So I'd say that is an improvement. He said that the Ugandan(spck) contractors they have for security shoot more than anything, and generally at nothing, well, stray dogs and such.

Bull



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