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RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 7:24:26 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		One could say that my husband is a 'Vanilla Submissive'.  It's probably more kind that "Pussy Whipped".  Anyone who knows us knows that I'm 'the boss' of the family.  The house is in my name, as are the credit cards, the cars, everything.  I make all the major decisions in the household.  While my husband does not do everything a true submissive would, he knows that if he made me truly unhappy, he'd be out on the street.

(in reply to LaMistressa)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 8:21:31 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, it is full of fantasy stuff, which is why I doubted a woman would be interested in that. It's really about what she wants to do, but although the male is submissive, his needs are equally important when establishing a relationship, or one I would be interested in. I'd have no interest in simply being submissive. Our needs would need to complement each other, so we both achieved substantial happiness from the relationship, just like in any relationship. Both parties need to be honest. If they are not, there will immediately be problems in the relationship. I'm willing to be the slave, but only after the relationship is established. If I found the woman had lied to me, I'd immediately terminate the relationship (or any relationship with any woman, vanilla or otherwise). If her major interest was drawing pictures on my back with a chainsaw, then I'd lose interest pretty quickly. That's why I posed the question of whether women existed who would really enjoy a permanent relationship where I was simply a house/beauty and general slave and loving, dependent, partner, without getting whipped or tied up or caged too much. I regard my desires are extremely submissive traditionally feminine, and they don't involve lots of high-intensity submission. I love touching and being touched, which is constant with nails, hair, and massages, and it's very submissive, though frankly having your hair or nails done is also a bit submissive. I've had my hair curled and my nails done, and you just sit there "submissively" while somebody does stuff to you. If a woman wanted to do that kind of stuff to me, I'd love it, but I'd love it more if I did it to her. I also regard it as intimate and a bonding type of thing. If a woman wasn't interested in that, I'd probably not be that interested in being her slave. Love is a big deal to me, and housework isn't where you establish love and intimacy. To find a woman who loved the type of slavery I enjoy, and me in that role, on a permanent basis, would be wonderful, and I don't regard it as that much of a fantasy. It wouldn't be a hardship on her, IF she actually enjoyed it. Nor would controlling the finances. I'd do all the work. She just sign the checks. Many women in vanilla relationships control the money. I've seen profiles from women who want to pick the man's clothes, and otherwise control his appearance and behaviors, so for such women, it would not be a chore. It's all about compatibility, just as any relationship.

You could bind yourself legally. I'm an attorney, and although you couldn't have "slavery" or "obedience" in such a contract, if in fact a woman loaned you $10,000, and the parties agreed that the debt would be forgiven if the male
Did all the housework, laundry, ironing, and cooking for six months (or whatever)
Did her hair and nails whenever she desired them done, and massaged her whenever she desired it
Agreed that his income would be deposited into her account to pay his share of the household and other expenses, and until he had fulfilled his duties for the specified period.
Agreed he would protect the home and not leave it without her permission
Agreed to dress her and undress her as she wished.
Agree to wear what she wishes, Etc.

That would be enforceable. Nothing in the above is illegal. She is basically hiring him as a housekeeper/beautician/masseur for a period of six months, and paying him $10,000 for those services. That's very legal. You simply need to set forth his duties specifically, rather than "obey" her, or "be her slave". It amounts to the same thing. An employer can establish a dress code. (In my case that would hopefully be a dress. LOL). If you had a great relationship with a woman you loved, it would simply be a bit of icing on the cake, just for that added spice of legally binding submission.  That they agreed that she had loaned him $10,000, when in fact she didn't, is irrelevant. They both say that she did. That would be enforceable. People often loan money, and in a casino type scenario, it's cash and quite believable between friends. Or I could slap a woman, and we'd agree that we had settled any claims she might have against me for $5,000, or whatever. That I barely touched her, and she paid that back in spades with spanking me whenever she wished for the next six months, is irrelevant. There are many ways to make it legally binding, so long as it's an "employment" type of agreement, with specific duties and responsibilities. I see nothing illegal in the least about it. If I was in a great relationship with a woman I loved, I'd enjoy doing it, though not for a huge sum of money, nor for a long period of time. It would just be fun to know you were legally bound to do these things.

Tavane


(in reply to LaMistressa)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 9:19:26 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		As for such a slavery relationship being one-sided, such that I would tire of it, I don't see that as accurate. Relationships are not based upon counting tasks. They are based upon pleasure. If I spent 4 hours each night doing a woman's hair, nails, and massaging her feet, while she simply relaxed and watched TV or read or whatever, the reality is that I am experiencing probably far more pleasure than she is, since I love this stuff so much.  I've done the nails and foot massage stuff with a friend, and couldn't get enough of it. I do love intimacy and submission. I'd much rather be doing her nails or hair while we talked and she watched TV than to be just sitting there, and the same goes for massaging her feet and legs, sitting on the floor with a pillow and towel on my lap,  stroking and tickling them in different ways to learn how to give her the most pleasure. I really love that. I'd really enjoy ironing her clothes in the living room while we watched TV. Doing domestic stuff in her presence as a natural part of our relationship would really give me immense pleasure. It's not backbreaking work. You are just doing domestic tasks while you talk and watch TV, because you are the submissive person, and that's your role, and you both love that role. Everyone is different, but I love feminine stuff and intimacy and the idea that I am the one who is totally responsible for her house, her clothes, and herself.  That's pure pleasure for me. Would I tire of it? Obviously I don't know, but I really don't think so. If I experienced such pleasure whenever I did it in the past, why would that change?  I didn't do it more than once a week, but pleasure is pleasure. It's not rational. It's erotic. When something gives you such immense erotic and emotional pleasure, you are not going to tire of it.

I am good a nails and foot massaging, but know nothing about hair; but I could certainly learn, and would love to wash and set a woman's hair while she watched TV every evening, if she loved having her hair done, and obviously many women do. They spend billions on hair and nails. I'd do it for free, every night, and love it. I regard hair as touching and intimacy, and submissive. It wouldn't surprise me if some beauticians were submissive, and loved "serving" women all day in their jobs.

Don't dominant  women enjoy this kind of thing? I'd love to have my hair done every night, and my nails. I do find it a bit surprising that a woman wouldn't enjoy that kind of thing, since she is just relaxing and watching TV or reading anyway.  I'd love to find a woman like that. My girlfriends didn't enjoy it, since I think most vanilla women find it too feminine. They love having their hair done by a male, but not their male. Perhaps dominant women feel the same way. I really dont know.

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 9:56:25 PM   
LaMistressa


Posts: 460
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tavane
You could bind yourself legally. I'm an attorney, and although you couldn't have "slavery" or "obedience" in such a contract, if in fact a woman loaned you $10,000, and the parties agreed that the debt would be forgiven if the male
Did all the housework, laundry, ironing, and cooking for six months (or whatever)
Did her hair and nails whenever she desired them done, and massaged her whenever she desired it
Agreed that his income would be deposited into her account to pay his share of the household and other expenses, and until he had fulfilled his duties for the specified period.
Agreed he would protect the home and not leave it without her permission
Agreed to dress her and undress her as she wished.
Agree to wear what she wishes, Etc.

That would be enforceable. Nothing in the above is illegal. She is basically hiring him as a housekeeper/beautician/masseur for a period of six months, and paying him $10,000 for those services. That's very legal. You simply need to set forth his duties specifically, rather than "obey" her, or "be her slave". It amounts to the same thing. An employer can establish a dress code. (In my case that would hopefully be a dress. LOL). If you had a great relationship with a woman you loved, it would simply be a bit of icing on the cake, just for that added spice of legally binding submission.  That they agreed that she had loaned him $10,000, when in fact she didn't, is irrelevant. They both say that she did. That would be enforceable. People often loan money, and in a casino type scenario, it's cash and quite believable between friends. Or I could slap a woman, and we'd agree that we had settled any claims she might have against me for $5,000, or whatever. That I barely touched her, and she paid that back in spades with spanking me whenever she wished for the next six months, is irrelevant. There are many ways to make it legally binding, so long as it's an "employment" type of agreement, with specific duties and responsibilities. I see nothing illegal in the least about it. If I was in a great relationship with a woman I loved, I'd enjoy doing it, though not for a huge sum of money, nor for a long period of time. It would just be fun to know you were legally bound to do these things.

Tavane


Okay, I'll bite.

"That would be enforceable."  Enforceable by whom, should the contract come into question?

"I'm an attorney, and although you couldn't have "slavery" or "obedience" in such a contract, if in fact a woman loaned you $10,000, and the parties agreed that the debt would be forgiven if..." But in fact (or at least in your hypothetical), you stated that the woman actually didn't lend any money to the submissive; a lie, making the contract null and void.

"An employer can establish a dress code. (In my case that would hopefully be a dress. LOL)."  If the woman writing the contract is considered an employer, aren't taxes owed on any compensation? In the case of an independent contractor (which this would more accurately be), at the very least the person hiring the contractor would need to file a 1099.

"That they agreed that she had loaned him $10,000, when in fact she didn't, is irrelevant. They both say that she did. That would be enforceable." Hokay, I'm no lawyer (although I've spanked a few in my day) - but you are saying that it's okay to lie about an exhange of money in a legally enforceable contract? Or that just because it was supposedly enacted on a cash loan, evidence (or lack thereof in this instance) of such a large cash transaction couldn't be tracked via bank withdrawals, transfers, etc? (Hint: Patriot Act, Spitzer, etc.)

I've beaten this horse within an inch of its life, but you get my point. Again, it's a nice fantasy (and one that a lot of people have), but as you describe it at least, I really don't see how it could be legally enforceable.

And to get back to your original post, you definitely aren't vanilla. (Which around here is a good thing, right?)

(edited to add an "n" in the word "instance".)



< Message edited by LaMistressa -- 3/12/2008 9:58:51 PM >

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 10:38:16 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		The woman could enforce it if she wished, suing the man for the money. He has signed a note that he owes her the money. Unless she admits it was never loaned, she will win, or he could agree that he owes her $5000 for work she performed for him. It doesn't need to be specified. Courts are very strict when it comes to written agreements, and are not going to be interested in a guy who claims it was not serious. You'd be surprised what you agree to in many written contracts for software, construction, and other things.  The person would be an independent contractor. You don't need to file a 1099 for a contract to be enforceable. That only comes into play if you are audited by the IRS and claim an expense for an IC, but didn't submit a 1099. It has nothing to do with enforceability of a contract. I've never sent out a 1099, and often hire people in my profession. Court reporters, researchers, etc.  I just don't worry about it. If the parties both agree to "lie", then there is no fraud. Perhaps they agree that he owes her $5000 for money loaned, expenses, and services provided at some casino. She loaned him $10, and the kiss she gave him was worth $4990, as they determined. That's not lying. That's why the casino scenario is nice, since huge sums of cash change hands, and nothing is tracked, unless you hit a big payoff on some machine. It doesnt' have to be $10,000. It can be $1000. The point is that it will be binding, so long as the "independent contractor/employment" agreement is detailed and not illegal. Only the woman will have copies of the agreement, so she doesn't have to worry about taxes, workman's compensation, or any other employment problems, and they would agree he is an independent contractor, which he would be. Many people hire maid services. Believe me, it would be legally enforceable, in that if he breached the agreement (by not performing all of the tasks for the specified period) she could sue him for the money. The point is not to drag the parties into court. The point is for them to know they have a legally enforceable agreement, for whatever subjective pleasure that is worth to them, to add spice to the submissive/dominant life they have. They would both know he is legally her slave. The agreement can really go into detail as to tasks, and it can be for a very long period of time. Not life, since such agreements are enforceable, but it could be for 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years. It could be for $500, or $10,000. It would be very exciting to fill in the amount, (something painful, but not bankrupting) and then sign the agreement, and let the woman fill in the duration. LOL.  Then she takes it to lock up in her safety deposit box, and brings back a copy  to show you how long you are bound to her as her slave. I wouldn't do that for much money, but I might risk at least $1000 on it, if I loved the woman and we had a great relationship which had gone on for quite some time. You could put the money in escrow, with an attorney, so you didn't have to sue, and agree to be bound by his decision if a dispute arose, so if he disobeyed, she'd simply present proof which satisfied the attorney, and she'd get the money.

It's really a fun thing, knowing he is legally her slave for whatever period they agree on (or she fills in in that scenario). That's all it is. If a male gives a woman his check and only has whatever money she gives him, she'll get far more money from that than from a binding agreement, over the long term, in a great relationship. I just think it would be fun to actually be legally obligated to be a woman's slave. The amount doesn't need to be large, though I'd think it should be at least $500.

Obviously I'm not vanilla. I dont' know why I have that ice cream cone next to my posts. I was referring to vanilla as the very traditional female vanilla role, where she did everything and obeyed the husband. In a pre-nuptial agreement, you could truly bind the husband. Courts do enforce those. He wouldn't need to obey her, but it could provide that if a divorce occurs, he gets nothing, so the longer the marriage, the more dependent on her he becomes, and so will need to obey her totally, so she won't divorce him. I'd love to get married, take my wife's name, and when we take vows, swear to love, honor, and obey her, for the rest of my life. Not binding, but a truly sincere oath which is what women traditionally said long ago. These things are often more symbolic than having great legal significance. If you have a contract where you are legally a woman's slave, and a ceremony where you swear to obey her, and she gets all of your income, so you are totally dependent on her, etc, then these are aspects of the relationship which the parties can find emotional pleasure from, quite apart from their legal significance.

Perhaps some day I'll find my mistress, and she'll forbid me to wear pants ever again in her home when we're alone, and all the other stuff. Probably not, but it's fun to think about.

(in reply to LaMistressa)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 10:55:15 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		~FR~
Who are you and where have you been all My life?

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 11:25:27 PM   
submgreenbay


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tavane

I'm new to this, and frankly don't have any kinks, in terms of humiliation, pain, etc. I've always been a small, feminine male, who would simply love to have the very traditional female role with a mistress, where she owns all the income, and I am her slave, doing all housework, laundry, ironing, cooking, and would wash,dry and curl her hair, and then dress her for work, and after dinner she would enjoy a manicure, pedicure, perhaps having her hair washed and set again, and then have her feet massaged with warm lotion while she watched TV or relaxed. She would never lift a finger at home, except to get my attention, and there would be almost no "bossing", since I would know my role and would naturally do everything, and would never leave the house without her permission, not have any money except what she gave to me for grocery shopping or other errands, or for lunch money. <snip>


I can see how some might see this as vanilla, simply because it doesn't fit their "media made definition". Seems that model has it include a bossy type, the appropriate attire, and humiliation aspects.

As other have pointed out, what you have described is a total power exchange. Where what you offer comes naturally. It doesn't really need to be coaxed out with kink/fetish aspects, like in the "media made definition".

With the right two people, what you described can be very functional complementary relationship. I do feel as others have noted that this day in age both people in a relationship are going to have to work outside the house.

The "media model" isn't usually a relationship, it's usually casual play. The other differences seem to be that in a TPE relationship "playtime" is usually a reward, not a punishment. And real punishment is not allowing a sub to serve and/or taking away his fetishes. In the "media model" play isn't necessarily linked to a such a logical behavior conditioning process.

I am much the same way. What I've found is that I get labeled as a "nice guy"/ dependable provider type by those who don't realize I'm submissive. They seem befuddled or sometimes weirded out by my attentiveness.

Vanilla submission to me is trying to serve someone who isn't dominate. It's very unfulfilling and uncomfortable.

< Message edited by submgreenbay -- 3/12/2008 11:50:10 PM >

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: vanilla submission - 3/12/2008 11:34:25 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		There is no way on this earth I would be dragging my arse to work whilst a man dressed up in an apron and stays home baking biscuits. I wouldn't be driving anyone around either. I've had years of being Mums taxi with my now grown up kids.

OP, I wish you luck in your search, but it kinda sounds like a whole "me me" fantasy, which I find a huge turn off. Still, the world a big place with lots of people, so your "One" might be just around the corner.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to LaMistressa)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 12:10:48 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I'd certainly work, but have had my career, and would prefer a "career" as a homemaker, with my job as secondary, with the woman's job being the important job. She would have my income, in any event.  My desires ae more relationship-oriented and love-oriented than scenario-oriented. Just a total role reversal, but otherwise a loving relationship. I'd relocate if I found a great relationship which I was very confident would be permanent and we were compatible in terms of desires and also other interests, but I'd need to be very confident of that, since once I sold my home and gave up my profession,  for whatever job I could get in her area, I'd immediately be very dependent on the woman, and would be obeying her whether I liked it or not, from that point on; so I'd have to be very careful.

Obviously I am interested in "me". Who isn't?  What I want however is very easy to give to me, if a woman has complementary desires, and since she is giving me what I want (total dependency and total power exchange), then I'd certainly be receptive to what she wanted, and would have no choice, in any event. She would be the mistress, which is why we'd both need to be honest about what we wanted. Some things I could accept, and some I couldn't. We are equals, until we both agree that our interests and desires and goals are similar, and are attracted to that and each other.. Then we enter a relationship, and I become her permanent slave. 

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 12:38:49 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Obviously I am interested in "me". Who isn't?
 
All my slaves actually. They are, as collared slaves, always interested in MY wishes primarily, not their own. You come across as being completely about YOU.

Using lines like "obviously I am interested in me, who isn't", implies that I am a half wit.

If you don't want responses, don't ask the question. I certainly wouldn't respond to you again.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 2:55:47 AM   
chezzy52


Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey Magnolia..there just may be extenuating circumstances why a boy doesn't own a car and even cannot work in the private sector...and if one were to judge on that alone..then i would truly feel sorry for you....the reason being you might just pass up the best servant you could have ever imagined.By the way..i am retired and cannot work because of a disability...so by your standards...i would get kicked to the proverbial curb....how sad??

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 3:44:45 AM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		This guy doesn't even need to work anymore... He may have investments.. Many people retire early, i am semi retired and my cousin who is 42 has been investing all his life so his retired as a millionaire now living on investments. Its easier done when one is single and hasn't got the expenses of having to support a family and if they could still live at home (like my cousin done)

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!


(in reply to chezzy52)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 4:50:02 AM   
LaMistressa


Posts: 460
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline 		I do write and monitor contracts for a living, and any time we've had to have one enforced we've had to have documentation, including payment documentation. And involving the courts would pop up the other flags for illegal hiring practices (lack of taxes paid, etc.) And I referred to you as "vanilla" because of the title of your thread, not because of the ice cream cone next to your name (that refers to your number of posts here.)

Redgardless, your entire fantasy is focused 100% on you and what you want out of it, so it will probably be very likely that you not find your dream Mistress.  I currently have a maid who does many of the things you list as wanting to do for me, but the essential difference is that she does it on my terms.  But I wish you the best of luck in finding what you seek. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 5:37:11 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have one question for the OP...  Are you Tavane from the FLR group?

Ms. Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to LaMistressa)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 8:22:18 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I do see  many submissives as being just as "selfish" as almost everyone else. I desire pleasure, and am willing to become a slave to experience it, but undoubtedly there are many variations. Yes, I am on that FLR list, and got the same criticisms, being always about "me".  I am still learning about this lifestyle. I admit I'd not be interested in being a slave if my needs weren't substantially met.  I don't see it as making the "rules", but rather insuring that we'll both be happy in the relationship, since personally I'm looking for a lifestyle, not an episodic thing. I'd like to find a woman who wanted substantially the same things  I did, so that when I become her slave, I am confident that it will be a permanent relationship which will make me happy. Once we enter the relationship, then I am the slave, and what I desire no longer matters, but I do find it unrealistic to assume I would be happy simply because I was a slave. That would be pleasurable in itself, but not 24/7, if our desires were very different. My attitude seems to be unusual, and also my desires. I'd love such a relationship, but do want to love the woman, and for her to love me. That not only means reasonable complementary desires and goals, but compatibility in other areas of life. I've always been pretty happy, so for me to become a slave, and particularly if I ws to relocate and change my life so traumatically, I'd need to be confident that we would complement each other, and it would likely be a permanent relationship which we both enjoyed. It would be different if lots of women existed, so you could easily have relationships where you were the slave, and if you weren't happy, you could end it and go out and find another mistress, but this seems to be pretty unusual stuff, and so far I've found very few women who seem to be interested in the type of slave I'd be. I can understand that. It's very passive for the woman. A nice life, but doesn't involve aggression and overt dominance on her part. She's simply the mistress, just like life was in most societies for thousands of years. Women owned personal slaves as a natural part of life, but didn't engage in aggressive humiliation, punishment,or bondage, so long as the slave was obedient. They were vanilla, for their society. I'd want a woman who truly enjoyed being a mistress and having a slave, but whose desires were not too extreme for me, in some respects. Since that is not an aggressive role for the mistress, my desires may be self-defeating.  That seems to be the case, at least so far. I could certainly accept quite a bit of  being caged, chained, spanked, and other behaviors which she enjoyed, but if that's all we did, and I didn't have my desires met, then I'd probably not be happy.

Law will vary from state to state, but a loan is a loan, and I've never seen a case where I person signed a note, and it wasn't enforced. If the woman testified that she had loaned the money, and a written note existed to verify that, then a man's argument that she didn't "really" loan him the money would find no sympathy with any judge or jury I've ever encountered, even assuming he wanted to start testifying under oath that he loved being a slave and that's why he did it, establishing a permanent public record of his lifstyle and desires. I dont see any man doing that, nor any trier of fact being in the least sympathetic to it. It's such a bizarre contention, and juries are so prejudiced against anything very strange, that he'd have virtually no chance. People lie constantly in court. In almost every case, somebody is lying, which is why we have litigation in the first place. Sometimes everyone is telling the truth, and it's simply a matter of damages, such as in a personal injury case, but usually one or both parties are lying. She has a note, where he acknowledged a loan of $5000 in a casino one night. She says he loves to gamble, and she had won that night, and was willing to loan him the money, but required a written note. They actually sign it at a casino, and have it witnessed, so there is not a situation where he can prove he wasn't even there. I can't imagine any court not enforcing that. He has his agreement that the note will be forgiven if he does all this domestic stuff. The only triable issue would be whether or not he did what he promised to do. It has nothing to do with employment law. He is an independent contractor. The agreement he has sets forth the duties. She was simply giving him the option of working off the loan. He either did, or he didn't. That's the way a judge or jury is going to look at it, even assuming he has the guts to start testifying about such an embarrassing agreement in a public court. He will get no sympathy whatsoever. She gave him a chance to work off the loan. He chose not to do so. He owes the money. End of story. You'd have two separate agreements. One is the loan itself, where they acknowledge she has just loaned him the money. Then another one,  where she has agreed to give him this option. I see no legal problem with it whatsoever.

(in reply to MistressFaye1)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 6:39:56 PM   
GACoupleSeeking


Posts: 8
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		Might I suggest you investigate a group called ClubFEM? www.clubfem.com You might find what you are looking for there.

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 6:52:34 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks. Is this a yahoo group? I'll check there, and on the net, to try to find it. I appreciate your response. I do tend to be attracted to anything with "fem" in it. (grin).

Tavane

(in reply to GACoupleSeeking)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: vanilla submission - 3/13/2008 6:54:13 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I'm sorry. I wasn't even paying attention to the reality that you gave the URL. I just went there;.  Thanks again. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 38
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