Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Europe


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Europe Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:01:44 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Assuming those "grants" to Cornwall came from the EU then what Reality Licks fails to appreciate is that the money was what we had sent to Brussels in the first place minus the admin costs which are enormous and corrupt !

Reality, the UK is a net financial contributor to the EU. Fact.
"They" also say we dont contribute enough.

Another point: Kitten and Reality, we definitely dont need a "luv in" of the misguided and often mistaken he he he he he he he he

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/14/2008 9:05:38 AM >

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:12:10 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Correction: Since the accession of new member states the UK is a net contributor.  The payback: loads of contracts with burgeoning economies like Hungary, Czech Rep. etc which are going to be lucrative in the extreme for us.  It's a long-term commitment project European membership and if you really want to bring us out, you can kiss goodbye to BP, HSBC, LloydsTSB, BT and whole host of companies who will go bust, be bought by foreign owners or move investment overseas.  Yes, its a new world but fear gets you nowhere.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:15:50 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		The Hong Kong Shanghai banking corporation isn't dependant on Europe is it?

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:22:30 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		HSBC Europe is based in London, just part of a international corporate group.  But if London loses its standing as a banking capital, expect them to move to Frankfurt.  Corporation tax goes with them.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:29:54 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		I just thought they had their HQ in London because that is where their propaganda division is based. They are the world’s local bank after all so in effect a part of them is everywhere. They would always call their London base the HQ even if it only had five people working for it because it engenders some loyalty towards them on our part.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 9:49:03 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, maybe I just imagined the fifty storey building with 8000 people in it at Canary Wharf.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 10:10:08 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Funny that people were tossing the same arguments around when it came to being in the Euro. I like the HSBC building and the Citigroup building and the Swiss Re Tower. I find it hard to attribute all of that investment in London to being part of the EU rather than the fact London is a world financial centre in it’s own right for historic and independence reasons.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 10:12:35 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		The real crime here is the lack of national faith and of the attributes that set us apart from the crowd in the first place.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 11:15:05 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Reality, the UK is a net financial contributor to the EU. Fact.
"They" also say we dont contribute enough.



The UK is not the only net contributor to the EU and its not the biggest contributor, though it is the one that complains the most. The whole point of contributing is to develop the less developed nations and increase economic activity and so the economic activity of the EU as a whole. The policy has worked and worked for the benefit of all EU nations. The real problem in Britain is that British politicians use the EU as scapegoats for their incompetence and the reason they don't call for leaving the EU is that they know that the EU is a good thing for Britain.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 11:49:14 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

The real crime here is the lack of national faith and of the attributes that set us apart from the crowd in the first place.


What an odd take on the place of the City. 

The City's top analysts have been divided literally down the middle on adopting the euro since 2000. Your certainty is... interesting.  Industry, as earlier posts have discussed, is strongly in favour.

I think you've misinterpreted what "set us apart".  Basically, the City has much less regulation than Frankfurt or Paris which makes it very attractive to foreign companies looking to trade in Europe.  Its' dominated by offshore business and of all financial centres does more international business as a proportion of total output than any other exchange.  It's also the leading industry in the UK and as such receives much more Gov't attention and favourable treatment than its' rivals do. Along with a stable Sterling, the City's maverick internationalist approach makes good sense.

Those are the things which saw the City resurge in the Sixties but times are changing.  The eurozone is massive and is only set to grow, outstripping America and Asia in GDP comfortably.  Ask yourself, how likely is it that an entity like that will allow itself to be dominated by the City, which does not even share its currency?

It might take 10 or 15 years but Europe will have its own pre-eminent banking centre.  It's only a question of evolving new regulation and most of the City's banks today are foreign and will readily move.  Berlin looks likely.  Without adoption of the euro or some other unforeseen, huge change, it simply isn't expected to last by anybody.

The City works because it makes money for people.  When they can do that better elsewhere... its bye bye City.  Its not some magic quality of the English air that makes it work - most top City workers are now foreign - its naked commercial savvy.  That's what "sets us apart from the crowd";  romantic as your notion is, its just not right.

PS HSBC Europe were set to move to Frankfurt until Canary Wharf hove into view.  Another factor to consider.


(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 12:36:54 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
Ask yourself, how likely is it that an entity like that will allow itself to be dominated by the City, which does not even share its currency?


You make it sound like they make decisions based on emotions rather than the logic of what is best for future growth in Europe.

quote:


It might take 10 or 15 years but Europe will have its own pre-eminent banking centre.  It's only a question of evolving new regulation and most of the City's banks today are foreign and will readily move.  Berlin looks likely.  Without adoption of the euro or some other unforeseen, huge change, it simply isn't expected to last by anybody.


Oh well I hope they send us a postcard from time to time. I was already under the impression that Europe had plenty of regulation.

quote:


The City works because it makes money for people.  When they can do that better elsewhere... its bye bye City.  Its not some magic quality of the English air that makes it work - most top City workers are now foreign - its naked commercial savvy.  That's what "sets us apart from the crowd";  romantic as your notion is, its just not right.


Please don't go HSBC I miss you already. We will survive as we always have I’m a realist more than a romantic therefore we will survive because that is all we can ever do.



_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 12:58:19 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Oh well I hope they send us a postcard from time to time. I was already under the impression that Europe had plenty of regulation.



Maybe it has plenty of regulation, maybe it hasn't: it's all a matter of degree. So far, it's not working too badly, thanks. For example, the dollar is like Mickey Mouse money next to the Euro.

Next!

When one reads about the US government having to back up loans made by some of the largest institutions on the planet because these latter are too scared to take any more risks, and thereby, have to rely on government to continue their business... all this whining about regulations makes me have a really good laff  .

_____________________________



(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:08:33 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		I could argue one thing you could argue the opposite quoting press releases of financial institutions etc. In the end neither of us can prove here and now what is best so therefore it comes down to faith.  It is important what faith we have in things and maybe I’m simplifying things slightly with my ignorance of the economics of the modern world in which we live. I simply have faith that the UK will survive with or without Europe and you have faith that we need Europe to survive.

There is always the argument that it’s better to have a voice in Europe than be affected by it and not have a voice although that doesn’t seem to bother the Swiss. As for the Euro scheme yes it has done well in a climate of growth but that is all it has know thus far. The problem I have had with the Euro is a purely logical one in terms of being able to set one single interest rate that suits the whole of the Euro zone considering that some areas may be booming and some in recession. The question is who gets to decide on the interest rate and what part of Europe is the decision made to benefit? You could compare this with the US system with the fed but the key difference is they have the same cultural background and so are loyal to the whole of the country rather than their historic region of it. You can’t force unity through economics.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/14/2008 1:20:03 PM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:16:10 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		I was always under the impression that the US flooded the world money markets with dollars in order to keep it artificially low and thus boost its exports but I’m one for the elaborate conspiracy theories I suppose.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:42:56 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		It seems odd that RealityLicks should trumpet the virtues of financial systems exactly at a time when totally irresponsible operations by the mortgage arm in the US may well seriously reduce the value of the savings/pensions of many millions and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Reckless mortgage/credit lending in the UK is set to bear fruit and cause many to be evicted from their homes and many decent hard working new couples cant even afford to buy property.
As for the absurd salaries/bonuses paid to financial executives, well the mind boggles.
I think that if the financial institutions did leave the UK in the long run we would be better off. For one thing fiscal/monetary policy could be set to benefit genuine value added activity not City spivery and sometimes blatant fraud. eg the dot com debacle.

I agree that if the manufacture that is present in the UK due to our EU membership left ie Jap motor manufacture then that would leave us in deep mire. The Germans/French/Spanish/Italians all manufacture auto's. Had we have had politicos with half a brain so would we but it wasn't considered important. They said we would be the first post industrial service sector high skill economy.
Local call centre anyone.?
ps I have  a pass to visit the local Coal Mine/Steel Works/Foundry/Motor Plant  (all closed) Anybody want it ?

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:43:33 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Fullcircle, you misunderstood the points I made. 
  • The decision is unlikely to be based on emotion but on the fact that the ECB will always need a strong understanding with its primary banking centre - collaborating on running the euro being central to that. 
  • Regulation will be reduced to emulate the chief advantages of the City, not increased. I think my post makes that apparent but if not, my regrets.
  • Regarding HSBC and other financial sector giants leaving - I assume the UK will survive that too but surviving isn't the aim; the aim is flourishing.
  • As for interest rates, if the financial sector collapses we'll do well to accept convergence at any level. And, I think, then we will need the euro. Why throw years of advantage away, when with a little of the chutzpah you alluded to earlier we could be central to the growth of a resurgent Europe?


On another note, your "London Town" address and liking for the  emoticon rings a bell... no..no... it couldn't be...

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:50:43 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		He has discovered my secret identity To the FullCircle cave Robin.

da la la la la la la.


_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 1:59:35 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Come, come seeks, I'm "trumpeting" nothing.  I'm trying to describe what I think is going on just now.  The trumpet solo came from fullcircle, with talk of "a lack of national faith" in the City. 

Wanting to dump our number one export - financial services - is plain daft.  And the Gov't couldn't have saved manufacturing at any cost.  We don't live in a National Socialist command economy, though some might long for that.  Extremist views don't work in the real world.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 2:01:09 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Its the weekend Fullcircle, you dress for pleasure if you want to. 

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Europe - 3/14/2008 2:02:23 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah but as they say it will soon be Monday.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Europe Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094