RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment

RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (Full Version)

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MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:11:02 PM)
quote: Total Power Exchange means you give control of every part of your life, your well-being and your needs to someone else. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That you TRUST I know it's down-time, so I allow it. That you TRUST that I know you need some time with your friends, so I allow it. That you TRUST that I know you need to be held tonight instead of whipped. Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That you TRUST I take the responsibility of "your" (my slave) well being seriously, stay alert and tuned in, so that I can make the "right" decisions about your (my slave's) well being. Yes, we are definately on the same page as to interpretation. However, I don't think we are on the same page with the TRUST factor.

Ostentatious -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PsyVamp So does this mean you are done arguing about something that I never said? I wasn't talking to you there, as you well know. You really do have to try and keep up.

PsyVamp -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:15:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ostentatious quote: ORIGINAL: PsyVamp So does this mean you are done arguing about something that I never said? I wasn't talking to you there, as you well know. You really do have to try and keep up. you are very cute... I think I am amused at your attempts to be condescending (sorry MistressCVnus about the thread hijack. I'm just not keen on rudeness in any form)

Ostentatious -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:17:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressVnus quote: Total Power Exchange means you give control of every part of your life, your well-being and your needs to someone else. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That you TRUST I know it's down-time, so I allow it. That you TRUST that I know you need some time with your friends, so I allow it. That you TRUST that I know you need to be held tonight instead of whipped. Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That you TRUST I take the responsibility of "your" (my slave) well being seriously, stay alert and tuned in, so that I can make the "right" decisions about your (my slave's) well being. Yes, we are definately on the same page as to interpretation. However, I don't think we are on the same page with the TRUST factor. I wouldn't agree to TPE. We are all different, none of us are right, none of us are wrong. For me, TPE means the handing over of all decision making. I will not do that in every day life. In bdsm and the dynamic, yes I would. It doesn't mean I trust less, it just means we are all different. Which, is a good thing. I wouldn't agree with TPE the same way I wouldn't agree with 24/7. I just don't believe people can function like that and I believe it would leave someone very vulnerable if the relationship should end. It's great to trust, we have all trusted, we have all had our trust betrayed, what that has to do with being rational though is a little beyond me.

Ostentatious -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:20:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PsyVamp you are very cute... I know [:)]

MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:21:14 PM)
quote: building trust Funny you should say that as I was just thinking about it with my last response. Many say trust is earned. I debate the point. I believe trust is "given." Period. And, only then do you know if your trust will be betrayed. We ALWAYS make the decision to "give" our trust. It is NEVER earned. It is sometimes tested, with time. But, in the end, it is always up for betrayal. No matter how tried and tested, or allegedly earned, it is given. Sometimes the trust is upheld with integrity and honor, sometimes it is betrayed. Even with the longest of good running history. But no doubt to me, it was "given," never earned, or set in stone.

Ostentatious -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:24:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressVnus Many say trust is earned. I debate the point. I believe trust is "given." Totally agree there!

MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 2:41:34 PM)
quote: For me, TPE means the handing over of all decision making. I will not do that in every day life. In bdsm and the dynamic, yes I would. Ok. I admit. You lost me there. A BIG contradiction in just 2 sentances. quote: I just don't believe people can function like that and I believe it would leave someone very vulnerable if the relationship should end. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Yes! Gee, you are great. You feed right into my hand. There are some who can't function like that. But some NEED to function like that. And some NEED to have someone that functions like that. AND, here's where the "responsibility" comes in. The way I was taught, you MADE SURE, that if your slave must leave, or you died suddenly, that you support them in a manner that is sufficient for them to "resocialize" themselves. Now, that can mean you keep them in your care, financially and mentally, until they are ready for independence, if you are alive. Or, you have a large enough trust fund, or insurance policy, to support them, in case of your sudden demise, for such a time that they can have the "leisure" or resocializing themselves. quote: It's great to trust, we have all trusted, we have all had our trust betrayed, what that has to do with being rational though is a little beyond me. Do you realize that WIITWD is considered highly irrational to most? Even in it's lightest form (such as just the fetish clothing, alone). Rational for some, is not rational for others. I believe our individual NEEDS drive our interpretation of "rational."

Reigna -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 5:07:22 PM)
Do people in general, and people in this particular thread, agree on what TPE means? I'm not sure it's fruitful to debate something that hasn't been at least roughly defined. Just a thought.

MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 5:24:46 PM)
Thank you. That IS the point. It was a "feeler" thread to see what the general BDSM population perceives as a TPE. What it entiails, to them. What it means, to them. What they believe the participant's roles involve in a TPE relationship, to them. It is not a judgement, but a discussion. Maybe even a learning experience for all, or some, involved. You are right on the money. So, what are YOUR views? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

lateralist1 -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 6:45:55 PM)
Thankyou Mistress Vnus for opening up the discussion. Total Power Exchange means just that. The submissive gives up all of his/her power to the dominant partner in the relationship. However each dominant partner uses that power in different ways depending on their needs and their understanding/awareness of the submissives needs As is obvious from these message boards some Dominants understand the needs of their submissive partners and take on the responsibilities for those needs as much as any one human being can take on the responsibility for another. When we engage in BDSM activities which may or may not be sexually orientated we may be taking more risks than at other times but we may not be. Concrete examples of the Power Exchange dynamic have been given. The fear of TPE has been expressed. Couples grow in the dynamic. It takes time and work to achieve TPE or at least I believe it should do even when it's what both partners want. The word 'playing' I think is misunderstood and often misused. I refer to playing when a submissive only gives over power for limited agreed times. All relationships require some sort of exchange of power. That's why many of them don't work out. Some people have underhand ways of gaining power. Sometimes the only power one has is not to enter into a relationship in the first place or leave it when you know you have made a mistake. You can alter the way someone thinks and acts towards you but the effort involved is sometimes not worth the gain.

MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/13/2008 7:18:42 PM)
quote: All relationships require some sort of exchange of power. That's why many of them don't work out. Some people have underhand ways of gaining power. Sometimes the only power one has is not to enter into a relationship in the first place or leave it when you know you have made a mistake. You can alter the way someone thinks and acts towards you but the effort involved is sometimes not worth the gain. Here! Here! I agree. There is a power exchange going on at ANY level of participation of BDSM. And, I agree and expressed in a post later in the thread, that "playing" is not an insult (as opposed to the word "player"). But, rather, one who does a Power Exchange for a limited amount of time, and that amount of time only. It doesn't mean they are any less serious about the exchange, just not comittied to any duration of time. A casual play partner, a "scene", a Top/bottom scenario, or switch scenario. And I agree with you, lateralist, that we might be able to change the way someone thinks towards us. But we must way the effort vs gain. Hence, defining one's needs, and being able to recogize those with attributes who might be most capable of fulfilling our needs, and recognizing if we can fulfill theirs to some desirable degree, is essential. Working towards feeling "ready" for a TPE relationship, although it might have been desired from "get-go," is an ongoing journey of self-exploraton and learning. But, at some point, one might say....I'm ready now...I NEED this now. Anything less would be futile. That's when one might say..."Let's go shopping!!" chuckle Thank you for your input. It was greatly appreciated and well versed.

StormsSlave -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 12:09:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressVnus I can see your point. However, I think there are relationships, all over the place, where one gives up their power. Look at abusive relationships. That person has absolutely relinquished their power. And honestly believe they have no choice. Only in that instance, it was taken, not given. And that is only one example. If you need, I can site more. I think a person like that has an unfulfilled need to be controlled, to please. And, to be appreciated for it. Unfortunately, their attributes are often misused against them instead of "for them" by a person who understands, and appreciates, those attributes. I think it is very real. TPE is very real. Just not always, consentual. This may actually be the single smartest statement I have ever heard about abuse. Well done.

chezzy52 -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 4:52:31 AM)
I can only say that i am seeking a 24/7 live-in arrangement and if that entails giving all my power to someone then it will come with a price.And that price is you must maintain strict guidelines regarding my safety and health.My other price is even though it is 24/7,i still need my space and so do you...it is more a real life thing than it is i need my space because you are so far up my ass i can taste brylcream.If you wish to call it the vanilla world,fine..such as visiting relatives.I cannot allow power at that point..we must be total equals.After we are away from the family...go ahead and flip the switch.

edgepassion -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 4:56:59 AM)
What a great topic! Sure started a bit of a firestorm....<g>...

PsyVamp -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 7:57:42 AM)
smiles It sure did. It is always interesting to hear varying viewpoints.

thetammyjo -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 8:07:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lateralist1 Total Power Exchange means just that. The submissive gives up all of his/her power to the dominant partner in the relationship. That's the definition I work from -- otherwise the words that make up the abbreviation are false. I just don't honestly believe that one human being (or one anything that is living) can give up all of it's power. We don't even exercise complete power over or minds and bodies so how could we give away what we ourselves do not control? Thus there will always be things that the dominant cannot exercise control over or use. I believe in starting from a very realistic foundation and I don't find the TPE idea to be realistic. I've learned that if things aren't created on a realistic foundation, then frustrations, resentments, and just plain confusion will leak into a dynamic and they will damage if not destroy it. All the words and phrases we use are simply attempts to communicate what we do. None of them will be perfect but I think saying you have an owner-slave dynamic or a 24/7 dynamic is more realistic than TPE. I think a couple could work toward that position but even in worlds where chattel, institutional or historical slavery existed, TPE didn't exist but I try not to compare those sorts of situations with consensual dynamics between adults today.

BitaTruble -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 10:48:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressVnus What does a TPE mean to you? Total power exchange - one person in a given relationship has the ability and desire to control the power of the other members of the relationship and the other members recognize that ability and desire and want to live in that universe. quote: What do you see as the essential elements for a sound foundation to a TPE relationship? Compatibility, capability and desire. quote: Whether you be one taking the will or surrendering the will, what is your ideal TPE relationship? To me, it doesn't matter. If Himself wants to micromanage me, that's fine and if he prefers me to have enough autonomy so I can function in the day to day real world without having to pester him for anything, that's fine as well or anything in between. My job is to make his life easier but he's the one who determines what that entails. quote: What do you hope it brings to you? What do you hope to impart to the other? What do you hope to fulfill for yourself and your counterpart? Max potential for a happy, successful life. Celeste

LadyPact -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/14/2008 1:00:26 PM)
I haven't read the other replies. I will when I have time enough to do so. It sounds to Me like your Mentor is very much like the people who I started out with that taught Me about the lifestyle. I was fortunate enough to have people instill in Me the level of commitment, dedication, and fortitude that it takes to do this. I'm thankful for that. I think My beginnings helped to form the Dominant I am today. No, it's not all about sitting back and letting our subs do things for Us. It isn't the cake ride that some make it out to be. It's about responsibility. It's about control. It's about having someone put themselves into the palm of your hand, To steal the line, with great power, comes great responsibility. May we all take that for what it's worth, and find the worth in living it to the full extent.

MistressVnus -> RE: TPE=Trust, Responsibility, Commitment (3/15/2008 4:05:06 AM)
quote: I believe in starting from a very realistic foundation and I don't find the TPE idea to be realistic. I've learned that if things aren't created on a realistic foundation, then frustrations, resentments, and just plain confusion will leak into a dynamic and they will damage if not destroy it. All the words and phrases we use are simply attempts to communicate what we do. None of them will be perfect but I think saying you have an owner-slave dynamic or a 24/7 dynamic is more realistic than TPE. I agree that some things are just not controllable and that it is actually an "illusion" of sorts. Life has a way of doing what it wants to. And I agree that we use these words to communicate, as closely as possible, our preferences and desires regarding WIITWD and the type of intensity we would like to have in our relationships. I believe TPE means that someone's "free-will" is controlled. Not necessarily every thought, or body function, or life situation that comes up. And, even still, if someone really wants to leave the situation, they can. That's why it is an "exchange," versus an unconsentual enslavement. The relationship can be terminated and the power dynamics can be changed. It isn't set in stone. I think most of us understands that the terminology has it's place and that actual situations are going to be different for each couple, regardless of the TPE terminology being used to describe their relationship.

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