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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/20/2008 3:12:29 PM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Perhaps we will meet, would be fun if we did.
You might want to google "Flower and Snake' ("2004 version" there is one part of the movie I do think is worth seeing that is about 20 minutes long of the best rope bondage I have seen in western release of Arisue's work)  or add to your netflix que if you have one.  The other you might want to see is "I am an SM writer"  Since you liked the article I am sure these might be good recomendations to you.



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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/20/2008 3:18:43 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline 		Thanks, I'll google that :-)

(in reply to Kinbakudayo)
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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/21/2008 9:47:35 AM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		I saw the movie during a small film festival pass in the US.  Its interesting,hopefully it will at least get on DVD in Japan and you can watch it on import.  Having a region free DVD player helps alot. 

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/21/2008 9:54:06 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Of course there is always consider HOJOJUTSU  which is the Japanese feudal martial skill of restraining a prisoner with rope. I have some good links if it interests you. I find it fast and effective in play and in a real life situation.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


(in reply to Kinbakudayo)
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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/24/2008 7:58:21 PM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Hello Ironbear,
There has to be a few points made about hojojutsu so that someone reading this thread doesnt attempt something foolish and get someone hurt.

Hojojutsu is not designed for erotic restraint.

Hojojutsu is a martial  practice that should be instructed properly because its designed as a military restraint system for military\criminal prisoners.

While Kinbaku takes from Hojojutsu it does things to try to avoid the pitfalls, such as damage to the brachial nerve plexes, the airway in the neck which many hojo ties go for to make sure someone does not escape them.

Again I want to be clear I am not telliing anyone what to do or not, just warning that there are dangers you  must  be aware of with Hojojutsu that anyone with common sense will see if they examine Hojojutsu carefully.




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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/24/2008 10:44:47 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Actually, the points you mention are taught and emphasised if taught in a propper school or by a recognised instructor. As you know, knots as we in the west know then are never used because a prisoner is innoicent untill a magictrate or Feudal Lord has declared hin guilty at which case he, traditionally may well be hanged (a final lose of face). But as you iundicate for those who want to self teach the points you raise are of course vital for the safety of the bondage bunny. I thank you for bringing this to my attention vbecause being out of the forums for a couple of years, I had forgotten that although my posts was for you, others may read and want to try..

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)



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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 12:25:40 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		You know,simply exploring basic facts about human anatomy tuaght me more about safe bondage than any number of esoteric fancy rope methodologies. Avoiding damage through ligature is not rocket science.

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 12:32:00 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

You know,simply exploring basic facts about human anatomy tuaght me more about safe bondage than any number of esoteric fancy rope methodologies. Avoiding damage through ligature is not rocket science.


Sometines my friend, some of those esoteric fancy rope methodologies are bases on daily application. I used to always carry handcuffs when on duty and even earlier when in the Military and later para-military I always carried a length of rrope in readiness as a convienient means of securing prisoners using hojojutsu. But then I was the bloke who carried my katana on oppersations for it's effeciency if space permitted and a short blade wasn't an option.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)




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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 12:36:08 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

You know,simply exploring basic facts about human anatomy tuaght me more about safe bondage than any number of esoteric fancy rope methodologies. Avoiding damage through ligature is not rocket science.


Sometines my friend, some of those esoteric fancy rope methodologies are bases on daily application. I used to always carry handcuffs when on duty and even earlier when in the Military and later para-military I always carried a length of rrope in readiness as a convienient means of securing prisoners using hojojutsu. But then I was the bloke who carried my katana on oppersations for it's effeciency if space permitted and a short blade wasn't an option.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)






I learned shibari from a pro bondage artist who does vids dude. Who learned it from another-message me on the other side and I'll link you to them. I know exactly what works-and why. It's all about wraps, tension and placement.

I am a paraniocally safe bondage top-and have NEVER done damage to a subject I was working with. When you start talking about a jap technique that involves strangulating neck ties-that's not a safe discipline.

And I really wish you would not suggest it to lurking newbies who may go out and kill someone with it.

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 2:33:09 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I learned shibari from a pro bondage artist who does vids dude. Who learned it from another-message me on the other side and I'll link you to them. I know exactly what works-and why. It's all about wraps, tension and placement.


Unless you mean that he learned his rope in Japan through years of study, being a pro bondage artist who does vids is in no way a guarantee that it's shibari or kinbaku that he's doing. Even having studied in Japan isn't.

quote:


I am a paraniocally safe bondage top-and have NEVER done damage to a subject I was working with. When you start talking about a jap technique that involves strangulating neck ties-that's not a safe discipline.
And I really wish you would not suggest it to lurking newbies who may go out and kill someone with it.


This is an adult board at which, at times, dangerous techniques are discussed. Ropes around the neck - however dangerous - are not only part of hojojutsu ties but can also be found in plain western bondage (like certain military hogtie techniques) widely available on the net. Although I think it's wise to point out the dangers of such techniques (incl. rope suspensions), I see no reason why they shouldn't be mentioned here. Not everybody is paranoically safe, many of us are Risk Aware Consenting Adults.

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 9:23:37 AM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		Most inforative.  Thank you. 

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 10:06:07 AM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		I think everyone has made valid points here.  I do think that a good understanding of human body is good not just for bondage but most of the activities we do in the BDSM lifestyle.
I am sure that as long as anyone is willing to learn an art (in this case rope bondage) as long as it works for them and is safe then its legitimate. No matter what the source.
We are in fact all adults; we should be willing to take any informed risk we wish as we have the freedom to decide what is good for ourselves. So in my opinion nothing should be taboo to talk about.
My concern is not to promote one way over others; however it would be good that others get to share in the joy we get from tying, playing, and photography with kinbaku.  
For me one of the greatest frustrations with the BDSM world is to promote one fiefdom over another and miss out on what others can bring to the table.  For example when I first went to a “Japanese rope bondage” class 12 years ago the instructor while entertaining and very charismatic failed to do the one thing that would of made this experience start for me at an much earlier time.  To simply say “I know what I know about rope bondage but if you are willing to take the time there is a lot more available to learn”.  Instead I feel the instructor choose to not disclose that issue (and still doesn’t) which I know for a fact he\she was aware of and  in my opinion didn't to protect that instructors little fiefdom. 

So what I want to do now is share more of what I know so someone doesn’t miss out on the years of enjoyment as I did.   

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 3:13:52 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline 		I think the most difficult step in bondage is the step from basics to more advanced. It's easy to learn the basics, but there are virtually no on-line tutorials for the next step and few good instructors. If you've mastered the step towards advanced bondage it's not that difficult to keep growing. But that second step, that's where most people struggle I think.

(in reply to Kinbakudayo)
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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 6:35:14 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Yes and no on this. One of the things I was taught when learning in a number of skills both in and outside BDSM was something my late Sensei taught me when I was a kid. "If you learn your basics properly and practice them rtegularly, even the most avdanced techniques can be attained because they all have their basis in the basics. There is nothing wron in experimenenting with different ways to do something or extend what you know. If you do so carefully with caution and thought there is no reason for dammage or injury to occure." Inovate and if in doubt, go back to the basics. Shibari or as I prefer to be more correct "Japanese Style Bondage" can be worked well this way espewcially if you have thought out before how you want the subject to look like when finished and the rope patterns you wish to display. This is where the artist comes through and the ability to be safe and creative.

Just my views but it works for me in many facits of my live both recreationally and professionally.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)
. 

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 7:15:36 PM   
Esinem


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		I'm delighted to see some intelligent talk about this subject. Sadly, there is a lot of Shambari, as I call it, and it can be difficult to distinguish it from genuine, properly executed shibari/kinbaku. There are sadly a lot of high profile people claiming to be experts in the art who haven't got the first idea of what it is, one only has to compare their ties, with a critical eye, to those of the real masters, e.g. Nureki, Yukimura, Arisue, Osada Steve (qv http://www.flickr.com/photos/43718591@N00/), Randa Mai etc. However, the Internet gives anyone a voice. Repeat rubbish often enough and it becomes accepted as the truth, e.g. look how many people with claim a microwave oven heats stuff from the middle . Just because you have seen it in a Japanese mag, e.g. SM Sniper, doesn't mean it's the real deal. There are a lot of photographers throwing on a bit of rope to spice up a porno shot. I asked Osada Steve to define the difference between shibari and kinabku. If I recall correctly, kinbaku (literally 'tight binding') usually involves a more emotional exchange. It is the more usual term in Japan. As the OP said, shibari has a more general meaning of 'tying' anything, not specifically bondage.

Typically, jute is the rope of choice in Japan as (cannabis) hemp is comparatively rare. However, their use of the word hemp (asa) is more generic, it refers to any rope made from a particular type of fibre, not a specific plant. In the West, we use it more specifically to refer to the cannabis genus, hence the confusion.

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/25/2008 7:56:49 PM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Hello Esinem,
Its great to see you join the discussion.  We are looking forward to you adding more to the discussion.

Hope things are well in England

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/26/2008 7:51:13 PM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Some more kinbaku photos finally made it past the censors if people want to see more examples. Check our profile 

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/27/2008 2:55:39 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		totally random I know but i just got finished working the kinks out of a dragonfly sleeve for the fetish show this weekend and i had a wonderfull idea

whats the one thing every knotty boy or girl needs in their bag of goodies besides emt shears? A Wash cloth.........why an innocent wach cloth? Because my fracking nose itches the seconed my hands are behind my back.....and if a wash cloth is around i can rub my face on it and scratch my nose without haveing to un do al the lovely work or haveing a friend/my dom/ whoever giveing me weird looks whan i ask them to scratch my nose. MWAHAHAHA *is super dooper smart*

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 3/27/2008 2:56:34 AM >

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RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/27/2008 9:30:44 AM   
Kinbakudayo


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		OK I will bite, 
Whats a dragon sleave? Pictures if you have any....Please

Thanks

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Kinbaku or Shibari ? - 3/29/2008 3:26:22 AM   
calicowgirl


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline 		You mean your Dom will actually scratch your nose for you? Sir get reat pleasure out of watching me squirm while my nose itches, my hair is in my face etc. lol

To the OP... As a loverof bondage, especially rope, thank you for the post.

cali

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