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RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 1:50:53 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

It sounds like he has a good basis for resentment and although he submitted to your punishment and suffered dearly for it, this will continue.

I suggest a step back. A time of communicating and love with few dynamics of d/s until you are both safe and have a sound foundation of trust. When we punish and are not held accountable for our mistakes it can't go anywhere good. He says he is sorry and gets beat in anger and you get what?

He is keeping score now and you might want to address that from a loving and selfless place, because it sounds like he has every reason to keep score. Dominance for the sake of dominance has no place when it is blatant dominace without accountablity. Sounds more like abuse to me.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 21

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 2:07:59 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

What are your relationship agreements about the conversations you have with him on the floor and you on the couch? Is absolute submission expected there, or only respect? Is it a time of free communication? Because if it is a time that he is expected to express himself freely, I have to say, I would resent being punished, esp with such a harsh and brutal hand, for something I said during a time I expected to be allowed free speech. It seriously sounds like you need some time to hear from him.
I have to say I don't quite understand even the first punishment. He expressed to you that he had a different understanding of your expectations than you were expressing to him. When you told him you wanted something different, he obeyed. I was not there, so maybe he used a disrespectful tone or word choice, and some punishment was warranted, I do not know.
I do know that physical punishment while you are angry is generally a bad idea. I have never seen my Master angry, but we have discussed what is expected if he were to be angry. Some time alone for you while you calm down, and punishment only after you are calm, if you still feel it is warranted, but, also, quite possibly, after a chat in which your sub is free to truly communicate. You can not make good decisions without information, and some information is trapped inside the subs head - thoughts, feelings, ect - unless you give it a way out.
Does he journal for you?

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 22

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 2:26:38 PM

ObediantMan1

Posts: 52
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

It also almost sounds like you falsly believe that because neither of you could be in a vanilla relationship, he has no way out. Well sister, if he loses faith in you, a sexy vanilla girl could take him away....although it could take 6 months or a year for him to realize that vanilla wont work, it would be enough time for him to realize that he wants a new Domme, just not YOU.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 23

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 2:49:01 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

Nice story, but I have the feeling it's total fiction. My instincts aren't usually off, but I'll play along....

If any woman treated me like this, I'd be gone in a heartbeat. I have rarely met an adult that can't remember a conversation like the one you described. If they said they forgot, I would believe they were lying and as a result think them CRAZY. If I knew a man in a relationship like this, I would tell him to run for the hills as fast as he could. Submissive is not an invitation to treat someone like a child. I wouldn't put up with it, and I would be damned if I'd stand in the corner or take a beating for something like that. If this is real (which I doubt), then you need some serious help.

In case you are offended, you asked for honest responses. Well honesty is something I deal out without hesitation.

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 24

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 5:06:50 PM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline

Maintaining control is a very important part of being dominant. If you lose control, you lose the respect and trust of the one you've charged yourself with overseeing.

Either your husband is of the frailer persuasion, or you really lost it big-time from what you're describing. Seriously, he had to call in sick to work? What the fuck? Did you beat him with a hot poker or something?

I'm not sure, but it sounds like there may have been other similar incidents in the past based on this post... and if that's the case, you really need to take some time out from dominating anyone to deal with your anger issues. I'd honestly be surprised if he's not sleeping on the floor just because he's pissed off at you. There's a line between BDSM and spousal abuse, and it sounds like you may have tiptoed over that ever so slightly.

If you want to make it right, you'd better make damn sure you take care of him physically and emotionally for a little while, and hopefully you'll earn his trust back enough to the point where you'll be able to sit down and talk about what happened.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 25

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 5:09:08 PM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

Well, I know we're only getting a small portion of you.. and your relationship.. but reading this post and your journal and profile -- and it keeps popping into my head

this is abuse, not an SSC relationship.. but that's just my gut based on the few things I can find out about you on CM...

*shrug*

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

Post #: 26

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 5:23:40 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

After reading some of the post, I did read your journal... I was going to try to be constructive and give you some things you could actually do. But after that... I think it best you just work on some balance and stop the d/s elements because the way you are thinking just doesn't sound healthy. The poor guy is scared to make a mistake (and will make more in this state) and is turning passive aggressive. Keep this up and he will be gone and one of us will be trying to deal with him.

*take what you want and need in life... just do no harm*

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 27

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 6:12:41 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I waited for a while to put up a reply. I was hoping to aviod the knee-jerk reaction that My first thoughts would have brought. Maybe I can have a bit more composure now.

See, that's exactly how you do it. If you're angry, you wait. Just the same thing you do if you're irritated at you boss, or the cashier, or that family member that gets under you skin. Do you have other people in you life that irk you, then you sit and stew about it for a while, letting it get greater in your head, and then lash out at them at your next opportunity? If you're a rational person, you probably don't. Why would it be any different with you sub/husband?

From what was said in the post (and I do happen to agree with slaveboyforyou, it doesn't especially sound like the event was genuine), I would think abuse was implied. If you couldn't be sure if the conversation had happened, you certainly shouldn't be punishing for events surrounding it. I'm not saying that everyone remembers everything, but if you're 'forgetting things', you might want to take a look at that, as well as your anger issues. In fact, I wouldn't suggest any punishing for at least a while, until you get your memory and your anger under control.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 28

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 7:30:09 PM

MaxineANDjohnnie

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline

Even though some of you made me out for more of a monster than I think I am, I would like to thank all of you who have replied.
Johnnie worked today and I think he will be alright physically.
I feel awful about this but in my own defense I must repeat that this has never happened like this before and I will take to heart the admonition from many of you not to use corporal punishment while angry. I do not think of myself as an abuser.
We have been married a year & 1/2 and had been in a relationship for 3 years before that. I'm not sure how to describe this but we have worked our way to a place where things are assumed without talking about them the way we did when we started out. Many of you suggested that we have a talk and one of you pointed out that johnnie doesn't have any way to communicate with me freely, I'm going to fix that.
I am the leader of our little family and the eldest. I have always been bossy and while I do have a Sadistic streak it is not the main thing. I just like to be in control. My husband has told me and I have observed it to be true, that he likes to be in a state where he feels submissive and that being punished, not necesarily corporal, makes him feel more submissive. Neither of us are just these things but I had forgoten that about him.
Well this has turned into true confessions, I should stop here.
Thanks
Maxine
PS
This week I'm going to take johnnie out to a "guy" movie and some red meat restaurant that serves apple pie for desert, his favorite.
M

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 29

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 7:39:13 PM

MsDonnaMia

Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline

Spoken like a true slave!

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
If any woman treated me like this, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 30

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 7:51:26 PM

Luciferica

Posts: 231
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline

It does sound a bit harsh...wow...never punish mad or drunk it never ends well

(in reply to MsDonnaMia)

Post #: 31

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 8:34:06 PM

Kirren

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

If you can't remember the details of a conversation, then what business do you have to punish someone about that conversation?

If you are punishing for "talking back" I think the first thing you needed to do was discuss what he talked back and why you felt it was talking back. Then any punishment should fit the crime. I frankly don't see how not eating and standing in a corner is a good correction for giving you information about why he didn't go shopping when you asked him and also admit you didn't remember the details of the conversation.

I think you have broken trust with him but not mastering yourself first and reacting in anger instead of acting out of a place of authority and power. You first necessary step is to apologize to him.

My second suggestion is for you both to set down a chore chart and post it where you can both keep track of it. If you makes changes from time to time, note that on the chart as well so neither of you can forget what's been said.

I have to say I agree with this.

In order to control some one else you should first have control. And I am one that believes you should NEVER punish any one, slave, sub, child, animal, what ever, out of anger....if you were that angry then you should have taken a bath, taken a walk or what ever you do to calm down.

You cant possibly think to control a house if you cant recall what rules you set down, or what the reason for things being the way that they are.....its just not logical.

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name

Did I fail to mention...I am a BITCH?

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 32

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 8:44:10 PM

Kirren

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie

I was really pissed by then, I wore out the bundle he had brought and had to go out and cut some more myself. By the time I had come in from that I had cooled off, gave him a few more swatts sat down and watched a couple of hours of TV while he remained tied.
Sometime during the beating or while I was watching TV he must have entered "subspace". When I released him he could hardly stand. I asked him how he was

First...it is not acceptable to raise your hand to a submissive in anger. Almost always it will result in abuse...as you sadly have found out.

What is more disturbing to me however...after you were done punishing him you left him tied while you sat comfortably down to watch the tube for a few hours. Only when you untied him did you ask if he was alright? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? You were abusive in punishing to an extreme when you were angry, but you kept up the abusive behavior for several hours afterwards.

As to the "subspace" you assume he entered...did it occur to you that this man could be in shock??

I agree here as well. I wonder how much reading and work you have put into your dominance, instead of just assuming that you are a domme...I mean in all reality the physical and mental safety of your submissive should ALWAYS come first...and if you watched TV for a few hours, and him having most likely not eaten all day, then being beaten and skipped a meal to be tied to a table for a "couple of hours" well...while it sounds cool its insanity....he could have been weak from low sugar...his legs could have been weak from poor circulation...any number of things that you didnt bother to take into consideration because you wanted chicken and cole slaw.

In reality I wouldnt blame him at all if he drew back from you...you seem a bit dangerous and not in a good way.

Its people like this that give the vanilla world a bad view on the life style...this is plainly abuse and you need to get some kind of therapy.

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name

Did I fail to mention...I am a BITCH?

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 33

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 8:49:38 PM

Kirren

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie

Even though some of you made me out for more of a monster than I think I am, I would like to thank all of you who have replied.
Johnnie worked today and I think he will be alright physically.
I feel awful about this but in my own defense I must repeat that this has never happened like this before and I will take to heart the admonition from many of you not to use corporal punishment while angry. I do not think of myself as an abuser.
We have been married a year & 1/2 and had been in a relationship for 3 years before that. I'm not sure how to describe this but we have worked our way to a place where things are assumed without talking about them the way we did when we started out. Many of you suggested that we have a talk and one of you pointed out that johnnie doesn't have any way to communicate with me freely, I'm going to fix that.
I am the leader of our little family and the eldest. I have always been bossy and while I do have a Sadistic streak it is not the main thing. I just like to be in control. My husband has told me and I have observed it to be true, that he likes to be in a state where he feels submissive and that being punished, not necesarily corporal, makes him feel more submissive. Neither of us are just these things but I had forgoten that about him.
Well this has turned into true confessions, I should stop here.
Thanks
Maxine
PS
This week I'm going to take johnnie out to a "guy" movie and some red meat restaurant that serves apple pie for desert, his favorite.
M

I think after the insanity that he has endured for you...you might wanna toss a blow job in there for good measure.

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name

Did I fail to mention...I am a BITCH?

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 34

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 8:59:19 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

Punishment serves two purposes: to express the D/s dynamic, and to correct an unwanted behavior.

If punishment is done towards the former objective, I think it is important that the submissive understands it is being done to express the dynamic more than to punish in the classical sense. This dinstinction is important because it defines the emotional response the punishment then evokes.

If punishment is done to correct a behavior, it is important for the submissive to know why he is being punished, understand what he did was wrong and why it was wrong, and understand what behavior should instead have occurred. Otherwise, he will likely feel resentment.

Inconsistency by a dominant can create frustration and loss of respect. It can also leave a submissive unclear about how to behave if rules change without notice.

Punishment in anger is discouraged because it has potential for loss of control.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Kirren)

Post #: 35

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 9:01:38 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I don't care how upset or angry I might get I could never take it out on my sub. To me that is a huge violation of trust. My sub would never had stood for this kind of treatment because I have a rule "Protect your self always, even if from me". He would have walked out and came back later to try to talk to me.

Also if I make a mistake and I do, I am woman enough to own up to it. I apologize and try to fix things. Because in my view nothing makes a dominant look more weak then making a mistake and either blaming others or just shrugging it off.

You were out of control so my advice is hang up the whip until you can identify what caused this to happen and what can get you back on track. Your sub trusts you with his safety, at least respect him enough to do the right thing, protect him from the next time.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 36

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 9:40:55 PM

MistressScarlot

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline

Punishment while still angry is never a good idea.
With that said, I'd suggest that you could have tried to understand his point of view a bit more, and why he felt that way. Then you could have explained to him where he went wrong, and why you were so disappointed in his choice in behaviors. I have a feeling that it was his insolence that really got your panties in a bunch, it does to me too. Your reaction to that might have blinded you to the truth at the heart of things, that you might not feel too good about looking at to begin with. I do think it's important to /inspire/ submission through your own amazing judgment and brilliant choices, not just through the threat of punishment. I pride myself in knowing when I've not made the best choices, and doing my best to learn from my mistakes and convey the details, where applicable, to my own slaves.

Training boys isn't easy. It's complex work. The fact that we are all human with flaws and wounds makes it all the harder. I have no doubt you're doing the best you can. It's a journey for both of you, in the best of all D/s worlds, where you both grow for your challenges.

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 37

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 10:01:47 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I've been unfairly punished before, it's part of life. He has punished while angry before, and maintained total composure and control. I don't really care about the unfairness. He is spot on accurate about 95% of the time, with an approximate error rate of 5%. Since I submit to the whole man, brilliance and errors alike, I can live through that 5% without drama. But were he in an uncontrolled fit while punishing me, he would have a skittish, fearful slave, which is not in his best interest.

Quite honestly, I am having trouble understanding why there was so much anger experienced by the OP. While insolence is unacceptable, I believe a more controlled owner can deal with it without becoming so emotionally worked up.

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 38

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 11:04:32 PM

DominaJayde

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

Woah, you committed what I consider to be one the cardinal sins in any DS relationship, you LOST your cool and your temper and you punished while you were angry.

I'd be afraid of you too if you did that to me, thats how you break trust permanantly in some cases.

You both need to sit down and work on your communication, as people first and then as DS next.

seriously uncool.

DJ

_____________________________

letting go is a freedom in itself
http://fetishfandango.blogspot.com/

(in reply to MaxineANDjohnnie)

Post #: 39

RE: Unfair Punishment - 3/18/2008 11:06:28 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I've been unfairly punished before, it's part of life. He has punished while angry before, and maintained total composure and control. I don't really care about the unfairness. He is spot on accurate about 95% of the time, with an approximate error rate of 5%. Since I submit to the whole man, brilliance and errors alike, I can live through that 5% without drama. But were he in an uncontrolled fit while punishing me, he would have a skittish, fearful slave, which is not in his best interest.

Quite honestly, I am having trouble understanding why there was so much anger experienced by the OP. While insolence is unacceptable, I believe a more controlled owner can deal with it without becoming so emotionally worked up.

Exactly-correction needs to be done with a cool head-not during a totally uncontrolled hissy fit.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 40

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