RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (Full Version)

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petdave -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/18/2008 9:41:04 PM)

Ahh, so now we're on the "Caveman Diet"... Geico will be pleased. Let's just hope the whole "killing it with spears" part doesn't catch on... last thing i need is a bunch of damn yuppies with $150 Nike moccasins and carbon-fiber pointysticks chasing deer across my property [>:]




Najakcharmer -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/18/2008 10:05:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Ahh, so now we're on the "Caveman Diet"... Geico will be pleased. Let's just hope the whole "killing it with spears" part doesn't catch on... last thing i need is a bunch of damn yuppies with $150 Nike moccasins and carbon-fiber pointysticks chasing deer across my property [>:]


As much fun as that sounds like, you should note that I was making an empirical observation about the adaptability of Homo sapiens as a species to the seasonal or permanent absence of dietary carbohydrates, not recommending a nutritional regimen for modern humans.   While it is quite possible for humans to survive and even thrive on a zero carb diet, it is not necessarily optimal in today's society.  For starters, grain fed supermarket meat products are *not* adequate nutritional substitutes for wild game; totally different omega-3/omega-6 profile.  The success of the Inuit diet does not - quite - translate to the Atkins diet with its modern products being the best one for overall human health.   It does demonstrate that carbs are not essential to human survival, though they are optimal fuel for certain non-essential processes.  The practical implications here depend on your individual situation. 





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 11:47:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Just about every item you mentioned is relatively to extremely low in carbohydrates as well as calories, and could not be a highly sustaining food for Arctic living.  In addition, most are only seasonally available, and are not available at all in the further North regions inhabited by some indigenous peoples.  The energy to calorie ratio to gather some of these foods is fairly low, making them less practical for survival than essential meat and fat. 

BTW, the "eskimo potato" is a legume, and it has some known cases of serious toxicity associated.  "Indian rice" is a lily, and it is seasonal and limited to the southernmost coastal regions of Alaska.   Overconsumption of plants from the lily family tends to have unpleasant side effects.  Essentially you're talking about meat, fat, salad and some low-carb berries, with a few edible but non starchy roots.  That would pretty much be the Atkins diet.  Many of the plants that do potentially offer some nutrient value have also evolved significant toxicity to discourage predation, and are not easy or reliable calorie sources.

For all practical purposes, in an Arctic environment, concentrated energy sources are essential.  Ergo, meat and fat.  Low calorie salads simply don't supply sufficient energy for the stomach space.  The supplemental vitamins are useful, and are often ingested in the form of a tea (eg, pine needles, spruce gum, Labrador tea or scurvy grass).  They do not add significant calories or carbohydrates to the diet.
Oh, I won't disagree with you on any of the points you've raised.  I didn't list any of the highly toxic plants, such as baneberry.

I will point out that some flora, like seaweeds, are dried for later use. They don't need to be available year-round.

Eskimo Potato (Hedysarum alpinum): ("caution: there is a look-alike but poisonous cousin") "Both Eskimos and Indians once collected the roots by the bushel and some still make good use of them." pg. 268

Indian Rice (Fritillaria camchatcensis): "The buds of the bulb closely resemble rice grains and provide an even more richly starchy food with an agreeable nutty flavor." "The bulb is the edible part of the plant, and is available all year." "Bulblets are most often dried before cooking." "The plant is common, and in many cases abundant." pg. 269; originally from "Vegetables of the Alaskan Wilderness" by C.R. Snow, The Alaska Sportsman, Vol. 1 #4, April 1935.

Cat Tail (Typha latifolia): "Nearly all parts can be eaten at varying times of the year. During the late fall and winter, cattail roots are a good source of starch and may be eaten just like potatoes, boiled and mashed, fried and roasted. Season the same way too." pg. 265

Now, I've not been to the North coastal areas. Bonnie (my ex sister-in-law) has; she spent almost 15 years going out to the villages to teach kids for the Head Start program. She likely has a lot more first-hand info than anyone I can think of. She's hard to catch up with, though. It's an interesting topic.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 11:59:27 AM)

Here's an article by a guy at Duke stating that there is very little evidence that a diet severely restricted in CHO is either harmless or harmful.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

Seems more research is needed.




MichiganHeadmast -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 1:34:20 PM)

Oops, wrong thread.  I thought you were asking how to stop crab carvings.

Damn, and I had a great answer, too!




Gwynvyd -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 1:47:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

ok gwynn, you pilfer for apples and i'll pilfer for bacon and chocolate and man meat...hmmm, does man meat have carbs?


*chuckles* when I left last night I did eat that granny smith.. and french fries.. (baked ) and some steak with onions.. and a bowl of strawberry icecream. ( all my food groups were represented.)

Yummy.

I am now looking at a pear. It's next.

I hope you got your man meat. yes it is no calorie.. but often much more fattening afterwords. LOL

Gwyn





lusciouslips19 -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 1:58:33 PM)

quote:


*chuckles* when I left last night I did eat that granny smith.. and french fries.. (baked ) and some steak with onions.. and a bowl of strawberry icecream. ( all my food groups were represented.)

Yummy.

I am now looking at a pear. It's next.

I hope you got your man meat. yes it is no calorie.. but often much more fattening afterwords. LOL

Gwyn




I always tell myself I'll burn it off when we are scening![:D]




Level -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 3:32:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's an article by a guy at Duke stating that there is very little evidence that a diet severely restricted in CHO is either harmless or harmful.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

Seems more research is needed.


Westman's a good doc, very open-minded.
 
Here's another link discussing him and some of his work: http://diabeteslinks.blogspot.com/2007/07/dr-eric-westman-offers-new-effective.html




Gwynvyd -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 3:45:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:


*chuckles* when I left last night I did eat that granny smith.. and french fries.. (baked ) and some steak with onions.. and a bowl of strawberry icecream. ( all my food groups were represented.)

Yummy.

I am now looking at a pear. It's next.

I hope you got your man meat. yes it is no calorie.. but often much more fattening afterwords. LOL

Gwyn




I always tell myself I'll burn it off when we are scening![:D]


hehe yes sex and those types of activities do burn off more calories then any other type of activity. However man meat... and some of the ramifications of being around it  ( like pregnancy) does make one fat... ( or a bad break up.. and the tubs of ice cream and cookies consumed afterwords. ) *chuckles*

Gwyn

Everything has an up and a down side I guess.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 4:00:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:


*chuckles* when I left last night I did eat that granny smith.. and french fries.. (baked ) and some steak with onions.. and a bowl of strawberry icecream. ( all my food groups were represented.)

Yummy.

I am now looking at a pear. It's next.

I hope you got your man meat. yes it is no calorie.. but often much more fattening afterwords. LOL

Gwyn




I always tell myself I'll burn it off when we are scening![:D]


hehe yes sex and those types of activities do burn off more calories then any other type of activity. However man meat... and some of the ramifications of being around it  ( like pregnancy) does make one fat... ( or a bad break up.. and the tubs of ice cream and cookies consumed afterwords. ) *chuckles*

Gwyn

Everything has an up and a down side I guess.


Not if he can spell, v-a-s-e-c-t-o-m-y!




xxblushesxx -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 4:05:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
Everything has an up and a down side I guess.


Good Lord I hope so!!

Oh...you weren't...uhm...

nm..[:-] 




sirsholly -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 4:14:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

or a bad break up.. and the tubs of ice cream and cookies consumed afterwords.  *chuckles*

Gwyn



the breakup may be worth it if you are talking Ben and Jerry's and Mrs. Fields.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 4:48:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's an article by a guy at Duke stating that there is very little evidence that a diet severely restricted in CHO is either harmless or harmful.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

Seems more research is needed.


Westman's a good doc, very open-minded.
 
Here's another link discussing him and some of his work: http://diabeteslinks.blogspot.com/2007/07/dr-eric-westman-offers-new-effective.html

Yes, that blog discusses Westman. Doesn't provide a link to the actual study, though, unless I missed it. What I did find is some fat guy pushing a line of overpriced "low-carb" chocolate (dark chocolate is naturally low in CHO if it isn't sugared). Blogs are not primary source materiel. A couple clicks later, I ran into this:
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-about-zero-carb-carniverous-diet.html  which discusses Owsley Stanley's all-meat diet. Fuck, might as well go to his original essay:
http://www.thebear.org/essays1.html#anchor496162
I've corresponded with Bear a couple times, mostly about Leonard Pickard. Perhaps people should do a bit more research on Bear, formerly named Augustus Owsley Stanley III, before he changed it. I had the good fortune to have had his product a couple times. Everyone should know who AOS III was.

Kudos for giving a link, which is way more than many do here. Be skeptical, and remember that blogs aren't primary source materiel. Anything which is peer-reviewed is generally very reliable. If Westman's study were published in JAMA or NEJM or Lancet, or a specialty journal, I'd sit up and pay attention. As it is, I still believe much more research needs to be done.  Namaste




petdave -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 5:14:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
As much fun as that sounds like, you should note that I was making an empirical observation about the adaptability of Homo sapiens as a species to the seasonal or permanent absence of dietary carbohydrates, not recommending a nutritional regimen for modern humans.   While it is quite possible for humans to survive and even thrive on a zero carb diet, it is not necessarily optimal in today's society.  For starters, grain fed supermarket meat products are *not* adequate nutritional substitutes for wild game; totally different omega-3/omega-6 profile.  The success of the Inuit diet does not - quite - translate to the Atkins diet with its modern products being the best one for overall human health.   It does demonstrate that carbs are not essential to human survival, though they are optimal fuel for certain non-essential processes.  The practical implications here depend on your individual situation. 


Indeed. Adaptability as a species can sometimes seem, well, a bit too academic to an individual who finds that his particular genetic makeup is not adapting as well as advertised [;)] It would be interesting to see if a population of people of, say, Irish ancestry would fare as well on such a diet...

And i assume life expectancies are about equal? You can slash the stats for a lot of illnesses if you drop your sample population off early enough...

But enough speculation. Off to start on my cheddar-garlic biscuits [:)] In the spirit of the thread, tho, i'll make them big so they don't count for as many carbs.




Level -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 5:43:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's an article by a guy at Duke stating that there is very little evidence that a diet severely restricted in CHO is either harmless or harmful.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

Seems more research is needed.


Westman's a good doc, very open-minded.
 
Here's another link discussing him and some of his work: http://diabeteslinks.blogspot.com/2007/07/dr-eric-westman-offers-new-effective.html

Yes, that blog discusses Westman. Doesn't provide a link to the actual study, though, unless I missed it. What I did find is some fat guy pushing a line of overpriced "low-carb" chocolate (dark chocolate is naturally low in CHO if it isn't sugared). Blogs are not primary source materiel. A couple clicks later, I ran into this:
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-about-zero-carb-carniverous-diet.html  which discusses Owsley Stanley's all-meat diet. Fuck, might as well go to his original essay:
http://www.thebear.org/essays1.html#anchor496162
I've corresponded with Bear a couple times, mostly about Leonard Pickard. Perhaps people should do a bit more research on Bear, formerly named Augustus Owsley Stanley III, before he changed it. I had the good fortune to have had his product a couple times. Everyone should know who AOS III was.

Kudos for giving a link, which is way more than many do here. Be skeptical, and remember that blogs aren't primary source materiel. Anything which is peer-reviewed is generally very reliable. If Westman's study were published in JAMA or NEJM or Lancet, or a specialty journal, I'd sit up and pay attention. As it is, I still believe much more research needs to be done.  Namaste


Bear is quite an interesting guy; here's an article that ran on him last year http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/12/MNGK0QV7HS1.DTL

Some more Westman http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=pubmed&term=%20Westman%20EC%5Bauth%5D




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 5:50:31 PM)

Bear is indeed a trip. [8D] That link I gave has all of his essays (AFAIK). He's stone deaf now. I disagree with his "meathead" diet [:D], but I agree with all he has to say about "chemistry".

Excellent link. I've bookmarked it for later reading of the relevant abstracts.




petdave -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 6:17:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
But enough speculation. Off to start on my cheddar-garlic biscuits [:)] In the spirit of the thread, tho, i'll make them big so they don't count for as many carbs.



Breaking news!
A scientist has now proven that gobbling down a batch of cheddar-garlic biscuits will totally put the smackdown on carb cravings. Stay tuned for book and inspirational cassette ordering information.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 8:07:29 PM)

Oh heavens; how I lurve cheddar cheese bisquits....

I think I'm falling in love with petdave...




TracyTaken -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 8:39:36 PM)

I think I already posted on this thread.  You end carb cravings by eating carbs.  You'll die without carbs, so it's important to eat them.




Najakcharmer -> RE: Is there any way to stop carb cravings? (3/19/2008 9:24:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

I think I already posted on this thread.  You end carb cravings by eating carbs.  You'll die without carbs, so it's important to eat them.


No idea why people keep believing in that myth, since it was pretty thoroughly disproved back in the 1800's.  You might try reading a thread before posting stuff on it that's already been debunked. 

BTW, garlic cheddar biscuits are *excellent* done low carb style.  I actually like the almond meal/soy grits/wheat protein isolate version better than the standard white flour one.  I'm not doing low carb these days since I'm using different metabolic tweaks to add muscle rather than dropping fat, and I miss the food a lot.   Low fat is *much* less tasty, and not nearly as effective for long term weight loss.




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