quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

And the off base part was simple you stated how many bad owners per responsible owner, when the facts show it is 1263 responsible owners for every bad owner at worst.

No I didn't; I simply quoted the latest available figures by the Centers for Disease Control (a telling title). I didn't bother dissecting them into categories, you did.

See your post #52 in this thread " For each responsible gun owner, how many irresponsible ones? "

quote:



Failuer to see how the bias and emotional non fact based order of the words you chose speaks volumes.

I am not emotional; but you come across as if you are.

I'm cooly stating that I can do nothing about your love of guns and your right to harm bears... sorry, bear arms, but that I'd rather I didn't have to partake in your enthusiasm for ammunitions.

Quite why my cynical position is attracting such virulent responses speaks to me of the fact that the passion isn't in my camp, but in yours [;)] .

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I am not emotional; but you come across as if you are.

I'm cooly stating that I can do nothing about your love of guns and your right to harm bears... sorry, bear arms, but that I'd rather I didn't have to partake in your enthusiasm for ammunitions.

Quite why my cynical position is attracting such virulent responses speaks to me of the fact that the passion isn't in my camp, but in yours [;)] .

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
People could mean the collective or the the individual, as in the people v Joe Bloggs, meaning the government institution acting on behalf of the people. It also says a well regulated militia which doesn't actually conjure up the picture of everyone bring along your muskets or pitchforks if you haven't got anything else.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
People could mean the collective or the the individual, as in the people v Joe Bloggs, meaning the government institution acting on behalf of the people. It also says a well regulated militia which doesn't actually conjure up the picture of everyone bring along your muskets or pitchforks if you haven't got anything else.

We are not Borg. There is NO "collective".

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ORIGINAL kittinSol

if people like to own guns, fine, but let's not cover up the fact that guns are weapons of death. And that they're used as such.

quote:

Thomas Jefferson, who did not attend the Constitutional Convention, in a December 1787 letter to Madison called the omission of a Bill of Rights a major mistake: "A bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth."

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

You do not have the right to declare gun ownership a morally wrong choice for me and mine. In fact, you do not even have the right to have an opinion on gun ownership for me and mine. THAT is the essence of the Second Amendment--that it is the choice of the individual, and that choice is and should be beyond scrutiny.

quote:

  
The Federalist Papers are a series of 85 articles advocating the ratification of the United States Constitution. Seventy-seven of the essays were published serially in The Independent Journal and The New York Packet between October 1787 and August 1788. A compilation of these and eight others, called The Federalist, was published in 1788 by J. and A. McLean.[1]
The Federalist Papers serve as a primary source for interpretation of the Constitution, as they outline the philosophy and motivation of the proposed system of government.[2] The authors of the Federalist Papers wanted to both influence the vote in favor of ratification and shape future interpretations of the Constitution. According to historian Richard B. Morris, they are an "incomparable exposition of the Constitution, a classic in political science unsurpassed in both breadth and depth by the product of any later American writer."[3]
The articles were written by Alexander Hamilton (nos. 1, 6–9, 11–13, 15–17, 21–36, 59–61, and 65–85), James Madison (nos. 10, 14, 18–20, 37–58, and 62–63), and John Jay (2–5, and 64).[1] They appeared under the pseudonym "Publius," in honor of Roman consul Publius Valerius Publicola.[4] Madison is generally credited as the father of the Constitution and became the fourth President of the United States.[5] Hamilton was an active delegate at the Constitutional Convention, and became the first Secretary of the Treasury. John Jay became the first Chief Justice of the United States.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I am going to assume all posters using the 2nd amendment as the rationale for gun ownership are members of a well regulated militia

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Get  your facts straight...from Wikipedia, not exactly a pro-gun source!

quote:

  
The Federalist Papers are a series of 85 articles advocating the ratification of the United States Constitution. Seventy-seven of the essays were published serially in The Independent Journal and The New York Packet between October 1787 and August 1788. A compilation of these and eight others, called The Federalist, was published in 1788 by J. and A. McLean.[1]
The Federalist Papers serve as a primary source for interpretation of the Constitution, as they outline the philosophy and motivation of the proposed system of government.[2] The authors of the Federalist Papers wanted to both influence the vote in favor of ratification and shape future interpretations of the Constitution. According to historian Richard B. Morris, they are an "incomparable exposition of the Constitution, a classic in political science unsurpassed in both breadth and depth by the product of any later American writer."[3]
The articles were written by Alexander Hamilton (nos. 1, 6–9, 11–13, 15–17, 21–36, 59–61, and 65–85), James Madison (nos. 10, 14, 18–20, 37–58, and 62–63), and John Jay (2–5, and 64).[1] They appeared under the pseudonym "Publius," in honor of Roman consul Publius Valerius Publicola.[4] Madison is generally credited as the father of the Constitution and became the fourth President of the United States.[5] Hamilton was an active delegate at the Constitutional Convention, and became the first Secretary of the Treasury. John Jay became the first Chief Justice of the United States.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

If we as a citizenry are so worried about our government why do so many of us sit on our ass's on election day.It would seem a citizenry too lazy to vote is unlikely to go to the trouble of actually fomenting a populist uprising

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ORIGINAL: Archer

People used as a collective term? where else in the Bill of Rights is people used to refer to a collective right?
1st Nope individual
4th Nope individual
9th Nope idividual
10th Nope individual

Seems the only place meathcleaver thinks people is not an individual is in the second ammendment.

If we assume the US Bill of Rights was patterned after the English Bill of Rights circa 1689
we find it included

"freedom [for Protestants] to bear arms for self-defence,"  which would seem pretty individual.