RE: Is this really the message people are now getting?

RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (Full Version)

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Lordandmaster -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 4:28:43 PM)
You were right and she was wrong. "Accepting" her choices doesn't obligate you to compromise your own principles in her behalf. If she thinks friends are supposed to lie for each other, maybe she needs to find a different friend. quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Well that led to a tirade about how I had better catch up with the times because this lifestyle is not what it used to be...it is now all about ACCEPTANCE! Just because I don't agree with what she is doing, I should still ACCEPT it....even cover it up for her. If I were really a true friend I would cover for her. Besides, everyone knows that submissives in the lifestyle today stand behind each other in a united front of sisterhood....obviously I must wish to be outside the circle of kinship. Huh???????? Please folks...am I losing it? Could this really be the message that people are getting today? Everyone can do whatever they want and it must be accepted by all?

Tristan -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 4:33:03 PM)
Your kink is not my kink but your kink is ok is often translated as do what ever to whom ever when ever.

DrkAngl -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 4:42:01 PM)
Sounds like your so called friend, isn't so much of a friend. She's trying to use you and drag you down with her. If she's caught, chances are she'll blame things on you to ease up things with hubby. Stand by your morals. I wouldn't lie for a friend, not in that case. And a real friend wouldn't be asking you to lie so she could go screw around. Just my five cents worth. (hides her soap box back under her bed) [:)]

caitlyn -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 4:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn I would have lied for my friend. I hate to lie and try to never do it for my own gain ... but for a close friend I would do it every time. Doesn't that mean your own sense of ethics is completely dependent on the people around you? You can be tolerant of someones choices and not endorse or support them. No, it means I don't make my friends pass a litmus tests to gain my friendship. Oh, you can bet I would talk to her afterwards, and the conversation wouldn't be pretty. If I thought she was wrong, I would tell her, and she would definately know that I didn't like being brought into her scheme. But ... she did bring me in, so she better be willing to hear what I have to say about it. My hope would be that she would consider that I did help her out, and took a hit doing it ... and think over what we talked about later. I just don't think cutting a friend loose, is the right play in this situation. My opinion. [:D]

Evanesce -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 5:32:46 PM)
quote: Please folks...am I losing it? Could this really be the message that people are getting today? Everyone can do whatever they want and it must be accepted by all? No, this is not the message people are getting. At least, I HOPE it isn't! Accepting someone's lifestyle choices doesn't necessarily mean you have to accept their deceptive behavior and lie on their behalf to help them maintain that lifestyle. If I were in your shoes, I'd be sorely tempted to tell her spouse exactly what she's up to. But that's just me. Denise the Kaptin's wench

TahoeSadist -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 5:58:07 PM)
Wow! I'd take that as a helluva personal insult. This lowlife has no sense of honor, which is her problem. However she also has the gall to nerve to accuse you of having no honor either? If it were me, the absolute easiest she'd get it would be a no-holds-barred response detailing how insulted I was that she'd think I'd participate in such a disgusting scenario. As to using the BDSM lifestyle as an excuse and crutch, that's just pitiful, and she knows it, trust me. Eric

sultryvoice -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 6:02:21 PM)
I applaud you for the way you handled this situation. You kept yourself out of harms way. The harm is when others would have found out that you lied for this person, how would they be able to trust you? Honesty and trust are a big part of what we do and live. Don't lose your ethics now..You were right on the money! She will get what's coming to her..and it won't be pretty! Respectfully, sultry

perfection20005 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 6:48:04 PM)
I think you did the right thing. You don't have to lie for anyone, or accept what they do. You are morally responsible for yourself at the end of the day.

Saint -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 7:26:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Today I get a call from her saying that she is going out of town this weekend to meet a "new" Dom. She wanted to give me a "head's up" and let me know that she would be telling her Dom that she is going away with me and asked if I would cover her story. My answer to her was a flat out "NO". I will not become involved in her deception. One of the hardest things to do sometimes, is to stand up for what you believe in. Especially when the people who are involved, are people you know and like. However, no true friend would ever ask this of another and using this lifestyle is no justification for manipulative behavior. If she thinks you are going to find yourself isolated from the submissives in the community because of this, she obviously doesnt have a clue. Congratulations on standing up to her, mistoferin.

theRose4U -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 7:42:09 PM)
quote: Oh, you can bet I would talk to her afterwards, and the conversation wouldn't be pretty. If I thought she was wrong, I would tell her, and she would definately know that I didn't like being brought into her scheme. But ... she did bring me in, so she better be willing to hear what I have to say about it. My hope would be that she would consider that I did help her out, and took a hit doing it ... and think over what we talked about later. Sounds like this person has no care for what the friend thinks or what the consequences of the lie might be. I read this as hey I told hubby x cause I'm cheating on him. When this blows up in the form of divorce YOU can be called into court as a material witness, can have the same issue I've seen before where the friends Dom comes over & yells screams & carries on in front of the innocent friend's husband/Dom. GUARANTEE this will not be a pretty picture. Most people do not look highly on lies & is it worth getting in trouble with YOUR Dom because a friend is cheating on her husband?

EvilGeoff -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 8:15:17 PM)
Wowsers, nearly united front here.... My personal code of ethics preclude me lying like that for anyone. Personal responsibility and honesty are core values to me. Ya done good. YIK, - Geoff

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 8:31:47 PM)
Your friend sounds a bit deluded. This lifestyle may involve acceptance...to a point. When said acceptance goes against your personal morals, usually you should be polite, yet firm in your beliefs. However, acceptance doesn't cover aiding and abetting someone's misdeeds. That makes it a whole new ballgame. Kudos to you for not helping her out in a lie. No matter what someone does, it won't be accepted by someone, somewhere. If she's that mad about it, and that set in lying and cheating, I'd advise you to find some friends of better quality.

MistressKay -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 9:34:04 PM)
Acceptance is not a word used much in the BDSM world that I know (and have known for a very long time)... we don't have to accept anything that goes against our own beliefs. Tolerance is the word I hear the most in BDSM - we don't have to accept or agree with anyone elses kink, but we should tolerate their right to choose what is right for them. That being said - when one is asked to betray their own beliefs or to take away the right to consent (and that is what she asked you to do - to take away her husbands right to consent) then there are serious issues that need to be addressed. You are stuck in a position where if you lie for her you betray yourself and her husband - yet you shouldn't tell the husband because in all fairness it really isn't your business. They will both have to live with the consequences of the choices they make today. You too have to live with the consequences of your choices. Choose what is right for your life and move on - friends who would deceive the most important person in their life will have no problems lying to you too... perhaps its time to find new friends. I do wish you all the best and if it's any consolation - I believe you chose well in saying "NO" Lady Kay Ottawa, ON Canada

mistoferin -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 9:42:31 PM)
Thank you to all of you for confirming that this is a situation that is thankfully not the norm. I hear the word acceptance tossed around so much lately and it alarmed me that she would somehow see this as something that should fall under that umbrella within the context of this lifestyle. I should say that this person is not someone that I consider to be a close personal friend although I have known her for several years now through lifestyle functions. I believe our "friendship" has most likely just taken a serious turn. It appears she is just livid with my refusal to be a party to this. I am glad to say and even somewhat proud that the notion of going along with this plot was not even a fleeting consideration for me. Now please, I don't mean that to sound like I am being "elitist", but I kind of feel like I have had a test of sorts today and passed. I don't knock her for pursuing what may make her happy but I do think that her methods stink. The saddest part is that there is a very sweet and honorable man who is about to get hit by an emotional freight train that he is not even going to see coming. He has been absolutely above board in his relationship with her ever since the beginning when he took her in at a time in her life when she really had nothing. She herself has confided this to me and said that he was her "saving grace". He suffered an injury at work about a year ago and I know that times have been financially tough for them recently....and I am sorry to say that I think that is most likely her primary motivation. I wish that there were some way that I could get her to see that there might be a better way but honestly I think that she will just think that I am being judgmental and talking down to her. I hate having this knowledge because it places me in a very difficult position. Either way, I get to be the one to end up feeling like a shit. edited to add........M....thanks for the holler. Summer has been crazy but I should be indoors at the computer a bit more now that it is winding down.

stef -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 9:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin The saddest part is that there is a very sweet and honorable man who is about to get hit by an emotional freight train that he is not even going to see coming. He has been absolutely above board in his relationship with her ever since the beginning when he took her in at a time in her life when she really had nothing. She herself has confided this to me and said that he was her "saving grace". He suffered an injury at work about a year ago and I know that times have been financially tough for them recently....and I am sorry to say that I think that is most likely her primary motivation. It would be a shame (for her, at least) if he were to somehow be alerted to her plans before she has a chance to build that nest egg... A damn shame. ~stef

harmony3709 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 10:16:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I am glad to say and even somewhat proud that the notion of going along with this plot was not even a fleeting consideration for me. Now please, I don't mean that to sound like I am being "elitist", but I kind of feel like I have had a test of sorts today and passed. I don't knock her for pursuing what may make her happy but I do think that her methods stink. I think you should be proud, erin.........and as the general consent here, I agree, you did the right thing. It is a good feeling to realize that the standards we set for ourselves can be tested and that we pass. Good for you......smile And all stick together because we're sister submissives?? Give me a break.....geesh. I like to think we have a common thread, but to use that line to try to manipulate someone by guilt or some mis-guided sense of honor into helping them justify their actions........no thanks. And I'd say that to sister that I share a set of parents with too for that matter. And you've been missed on the boards, erin..........glad to see you back. Blessed be, harmony

OscarHargraves -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 10:25:08 PM)
"Unto your own self be true." Good advice from a great man. YOU are the one who has to look at yourself each morning in the mirror. Do what's right for YOU. Lying and deception have nothing to do with the 'lofestyle' only the person involved. If she'll lie to him, then she'll lie to you too. Turn around, walk away and smile to yourself for not getting in that mess any deeper.

LADYBOA -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/28/2005 10:51:02 PM)
Personally I would never cover for another person especially in that kind of situation.. I do not believe that it is accepted or expected by most people in the first place. You did the right thing.. stand behind your limits!!

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/29/2005 5:05:23 AM)
Erin, you think she's one of those chicks who aren't comfortable with security? Who actually "thrive" off of conflict and insecurity and instability?

mistoferin -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (9/29/2005 7:41:06 AM)
Actually Emerald, I haven't known her before this relationship she is in so I don't really know if that is a pattern for her or not. I didn't really see her as the drama queen type though. I tend to think that this is really more about the money (and the pending lawsuit he has with his former employer). I have to think that once that is settled it will be her opportune time for filing papers. I'd love to clue him in but sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong feels just as icky as her wanting me to cover for her. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situations.

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