RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (Full Version)

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caitlyn -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 3:01:42 PM)

Just to clear something up ... when I used the word "flame" in an earlier post, it was only meant as sarcasm.

I guess the [;)] and ha-ha ... at the end of the post didn't suffice to show the dry humor that was the original intent. This was pointed out to me on the other side.

My apologies. I don't always work and play well with others. [;)]



mistoferin -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 5:11:47 PM)

quote:

The scenario you presented in the original post, to me is less a matter of integrity and more a matter of what you value.


Main Entry: in·teg·ri·ty
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY

Well see though, they really are one in the same. I guess what I am asking you, well not just you as this really is an open question to all, is would you compromise what you feel is important to you on a personal level in order to help a friend. I am not talking about going out of your way or doing something that will be at an expense to you....other than on a personal level. Are the moral codes you have set in place for yourself corruptible by outside forces, or are they firm? If you have set a code of adherence to honesty on your part....would you compromise yourself?



caitlyn -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 7:37:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I guess what I am asking you, well not just you as this really is an open question to all, is would you compromise what you feel is important to you on a personal level in order to help a friend.


What I feel is important, is helping my friend. If they're doing something that hurts me, we'll address that later. It wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last.

I guess the simple answer to your question is yes, I would compromise nearly anything to help my friend. Friends are all you have sometimes.



LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 7:50:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have a submissive acquiantance who is married to her Dominant. Both are fairly new to the lifestyle....less than 5 years. She called me a few weeks ago and told me that she would soon be divorcing him, although he knows nothing of her plans yet. She wants more time to build a nest egg before she drops the bomb....her words, not mine. I told her during that call that I didn't think that was really the most honorable way to proceed with this and left it at that.

Today I get a call from her saying that she is going out of town this weekend to meet a "new" Dom. She wanted to give me a "head's up" and let me know that she would be telling her Dom that she is going away with me and asked if I would cover her story. My answer to her was a flat out "NO". I will not become involved in her deception.

Well that led to a tirade about how I had better catch up with the times because this lifestyle is not what it used to be...it is now all about ACCEPTANCE! Just because I don't agree with what she is doing, I should still ACCEPT it....even cover it up for her. If I were really a true friend I would cover for her. Besides, everyone knows that submissives in the lifestyle today stand behind each other in a united front of sisterhood....obviously I must wish to be outside the circle of kinship. Huh????????

Please folks...am I losing it? Could this really be the message that people are getting today? Everyone can do whatever they want and it must be accepted by all?

To your friend's comment, I would calmly reply: "If the issue is acceptance, I completely accept your right to do what you wish with your life, but acceptance does not require my participation. At the same time, it seems like a shame that you cannot completely accept that what you are asking is outside of the ethics that I require from myself. I wish you well."

Lady Zephyr




LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 8:03:28 PM)

Thinking that she would be better off without him wouldn't be sufficient for me to lie for her. The only way that it would not be a breach of my ethics would be if the woman (or man) were in danger (emotional, psychological or physical) or if there were youngsters involved who might be in danger. In that case, in the event that the man (or woman) was truly abusive, I would assist her in removing herself to a shelter and would not take calls from the abusive mate. If he showed up at my home and refused to leave, I would have no qualms about calling the police to remove him from my property.

However, for a "grass is greener" situation, even my dearest friend or one of my own beloveds could not get me to deceive hir mate. To leave honorably is one thing--to sneak away and betray an existing relationship, even if it is near the end of that relationship, is dishonest.

I have to be fair, too, and say that our family won't consider someone who has behaved in such a way with a previous mate (again, with the qualification that we are talking about "grass is greener" deceits). If they would do it once, they are at risk for doing it again, and I would never put the people that I cherish through having that done to them. Of course, most of the people who would do this don't survive the length of time that we put into the "waiting period" while we see if the "fit" is a real one.

Lady Zephyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Alter our behaviour... I mean, would you really never go behind his back? What if he was a lying, cheating (himself) abusive asshole... and you thought she was better off without him..? Are you (are others here? This is an open question) sure that you wouldn't cover for her... to help her out of the situation..?

What I mean is... that sometimes, we might think it's OK to lie for a friend (if we think they're in trouble, or would be better out of a situation), and sometimes we might think it's good to go behind someone's back (if we think someone we barely know is being twitted)... When are we acting according to our own morals? Do our morals depend on how we judge a situation..? Or are those morals set in stone..?

~ Elektra

edited trying to get rid of the colours and stuff but I couldn't... I think it's almost understandable as is, so hope everyone gets it.









kimmypuss -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/3/2005 9:39:41 PM)

*shaking my head at the over-riding tone of this discussion
My gosh you all get so involved - calling people names and whatnot.

I'm willing to bet you are the kind of friend we all wish we had, caitlyn
Your voice in this thread is refreshing.
*smiling at you






SweetDommes -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/4/2005 11:18:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kimmypuss
I'm willing to bet you are the kind of friend we all wish we had, caitlyn
Your voice in this thread is refreshing.



Yeah, I wish I had more friends like her.
However, I have been that friend in the past ... up to and including the "afterwards, we will have a talk, it won't be pretty" part. And I got taken advantage of ... repeatedly. Which is why I now refuse to do anything like that. I always stuck by my friends - and felt dirty and contaminated afterwards. I compomised my morals to stand by my friends through whatever they wanted no matter what it took. And I began to hate myself for it, because no matter how many of the "talks that aren't pretty" we had, they would do it again. Every time, they promised me that "this is the last time" and "I'll never do that again" ... and then it happened again. People who would ask something like that of you will ask it of you over and over again once they figure out that they can.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/4/2005 11:48:15 AM)

Yup. That's the voice of experience. True friends deserve your loyalty; don't dilute that by being loyal to people who don't deserve it.



pinkpleasures -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/9/2005 2:06:52 AM)

quote:

Believe me, this is a thought I have had also. This whole thing is really turning out to be a bit more agonizing than I had anticipated. I feel very comfortable in the way that I dealt with her request. On the flip side though, I know that there will be a day when this man is going to be in pain and I am going to feel a certain amount of guilt knowing that I had information that may have saved him from some of it. Right now I am just so angry that she has put me in this position. Talk about a rock and a hard place!

mistoferin


i have had Men friends ask me for ways to hide assets in a divorce the wife did not know was being contemplated. i refused to help and told them off, but i did not call the wife. i could not be sure they were going through with their plans....and i could not inject myself into their marriage as a "concerned friend". i think it is never wise to tell the injured (or about to be injured)...i think people need to discover this on their own. Not to be a coward, but rather because no one really knows what is happening in a marriage looking from the outside.

pinkpleasures



JustaTop -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/9/2005 7:20:45 AM)

She's selfish.

Don't let it get to you-not eveyone into this is so amoral.[:'(]



CaptCraig -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/9/2005 12:11:48 PM)

I agree. You have captured the essence of the matter (with SweetDommes help.)
You have hit on the truth of the matter and so many out there are not as concerned about the truth as they are concerned about blind loyalty; but at what cost?
As an aside, it's "Moral high ground" not "high moral ground." The earth has no morals :)



mistoferin -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/27/2005 11:34:47 AM)

UPDATE:

For those interested, the acquaintance of mine discussed in this thread showed up on the doorstep of a mutual friend this past weekend looking for a place to stay. Apparently hubby caught her red handed and gave her the boot. The mutual friend was unaware of what had been going on but when he found out that she had been cheating on her husband, he refused to take her in. Not sure where she is staying but I'm guessing the new "Dom" wasn't offering her room and board if she was asking around for a place to stay. I hope she's learning the lesson this experience has in it.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (10/27/2005 11:42:42 AM)

quote:

For those interested, the acquaintance of mine discussed in this thread showed up on the doorstep of a mutual friend this past weekend looking for a place to stay. Apparently hubby caught her red handed and gave her the boot. The mutual friend was unaware of what had been going on but when he found out that she had been cheating on her husband, he refused to take her in. Not sure where she is staying but I'm guessing the new "Dom" wasn't offering her room and board if she was asking around for a place to stay. I hope she's learning the lesson this experience has in it.
Thanks for the update Erin.
If she comes back wanting your help, you can now use her words and say acceptance includes sucking it up when you phuck up and get caught. I'm surprised she ended up homeless despite having been preparing to leave/divorce her hubby without his knowledge.
quote:

Well that led to a tirade about how I had better catch up with the times because this lifestyle is not what it used to be...it is now all about ACCEPTANCE!
M



MasterBenedict -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/2/2006 11:09:39 PM)

I cannot agree with you any MORE!
If she wishes to do this, more power to her, but her even ATTEMPTING to get YOU caught up in the episode in the first place, to me at least, makes HER to be the one who should have EVERYTHING taken away for ANYBODY else.



redheadedfire4u -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 2:44:32 AM)

To lie or not to lie for a freind... is it ever really clear cut ... the freind in an abusive relationship who you lie for to help her get out, you run the gauntlet and say no you will not tell him where she is, and then she goes back to him ... there is a lie that can have some nasty repercussions ... and what do you do the next time she decides to leave?

The close friend who is crying and beside herself because in a moment of drunken weakness she cheated on her partner, do you lie for her? she says it is only to give her time to work out what to do? As time goes past the lie stands and all is well and she decides what he does not know will not hurt him ... why rock the boat? Did you do the right thing helping her in this cover up, it certainly does not make you feel good, and the friendship between you two is never the same, the lie destroys what was and every time she seees me she is reminded of what she did, it became a dirty little secret that poisoned our relationship ... we are no longer friends, but she is now married to him and he still does not know ..

I am weary of people who will put a freindship in danger by asking you to lie for them, no good comes from it whether you say yes or no, the freindship is forever changed and something is lost.

warm smiles to all



nelbot -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 7:24:05 AM)

okay, accept them as they are but that doesn't mean you have to enable them when they are behaving in a way that you don't aggree with, that where I believe the whole made you bed, now lie in it comes along. I love my friends, I would sadly shake my head if one of them decided to act so dishonestly with the one person above all others she had a duty to be honest with, I would not go running to her husband but I would warn her that if she used me as her alibi I would not lie to support her if questioned, period. Loving my friends and accepting them with all their foibles does not mean I have to do the same.



SelkiePet1 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 8:59:38 AM)

ultimately, I don't have to like what another consenting adult chooses to do - but the most important thing is to be true to YOURSELF - you don't need to make excuses, you don't need to feel bad - if you want to turn it around - she should "accept" the fact that you are uncomfortable with lying for her!

I would do exactly what you did - I would never lie for someone like that! It's just plain wrong.

Now should someone else feel comfortable lying - well that is their perogative - and I refuse to judge them - but those standards are not mine.

I love the way she uses the mores of BDSM to someone justify her actions!



truesub4u -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 9:36:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redheadedfire4u

To lie or not to lie for a freind... is it ever really clear cut ... the freind in an abusive relationship who you lie for to help her get out, you run the gauntlet and say no you will not tell him where she is, and then she goes back to him ... there is a lie that can have some nasty repercussions ... and what do you do the next time she decides to leave?

The close friend who is crying and beside herself because in a moment of drunken weakness she cheated on her partner, do you lie for her? she says it is only to give her time to work out what to do? As time goes past the lie stands and all is well and she decides what he does not know will not hurt him ... why rock the boat? Did you do the right thing helping her in this cover up, it certainly does not make you feel good, and the friendship between you two is never the same, the lie destroys what was and every time she seees me she is reminded of what she did, it became a dirty little secret that poisoned our relationship ... we are no longer friends, but she is now married to him and he still does not know ..

I am weary of people who will put a freindship in danger by asking you to lie for them, no good comes from it whether you say yes or no, the freindship is forever changed and something is lost.

warm smiles to all



Ok I've been thur these before. He's Beating Me Please Help Me. Damn near get my ass kicked in protecting.... for her to go back to him.... that only happens 1 time.. after that, you go back.. you deal with it on your own. Don't call me when he smacks you again. Just send the kids over.

I got drunk, I slept with so-n-so.. can you say i slept here instead.... ummmmm NO.
I've lost a few "Friends" over this one over the years. But why pull me into your deception. And IMO I think one that even dares ask for you to lie to a spouse, ESPECIALLY if you're all friends... isn't a friend at all. No matter if it's the wife cheating.. or the hubby cheating.

And as for using the "Lifestyle" as a form of security blanket. And that all sister safe guard each other.... LMFAO... apparently the OP's friend there grew up sisterless!... And anyone out there with a sister in the family knows damn well why I laughed about that. She should be damn lucky her "sister" didn't go and run to tell on her... LOL

ok i'm done laughing about the sister thing. Yes we do protect our fellow sister.. but not when it leans to deception. We all talk about honor... codes.. moral ethics.. trust...I do believe this stand out side that circle.

The OP IMHO did the right thing on refusing to lie for her. And as for the update... too bad to sad. Once word gets out that you're not easily trusted... the mutual friend was right in refusing to open the door... and invite in more deception.

I seen the ealier quote.... Oh what a deadly web we weave... when we practice to deceive. Such words of wisdom there in that little quote.....



gbgirlz2003 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 10:11:35 AM)

quote:

I tend to think that this is really more about the money (and the pending lawsuit he has with his former employer). I have to think that once that is settled it will be her opportune time for filing papers.


There you have it...they are two peas in a pod. He is trying to get something for nothing from his employer and she is trying to do the same to him. What a great match. It is the "dom" she is running off to see that I would be concerned for.



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Is this really the message people are now getting? (1/3/2006 10:21:05 AM)

mistoferin you rock you always come up with great topics. back to the topic yes our lifestyle has went to pot in a hand basket
i can not stand people with ally cat personalites. they are unstable on so many levels. some could be bi polar or some thing. all i know is when you build with someone you do for the long hual in good times and bad in sick times and well times. i hate throw away people we are suppose to be better then this. and yet we make fun of nillas and religious peeps you know people in glass houses should not throw rocks. I do not know about you but i have changed my tune i do not stand up for these people. yes i do judge yes i am not tolerant of their behavior. cause it creates bad karma or bad ripples in the positive flow of things makes things un balanced for the rest of us. how so you ask just look at the negitive impressions on our lifestyle and number of long term relations vs short term percentages will show you cause and effect !!! Validity of bdsm is on the rocks. time to change people. time to fight for the right of things. long term couples need to stand up more and say this is how its done. mentors need to have a little more moral fiber in their souls to keep things glued together between dom sub domme sub. we are not table of food to taste. we a gold to hold on to and cheerish anything less is just bs sorry just the way it is get over it deal with it. or get out of it cause we are tired of fakes frauds and phonies and user loosers your on notice [:@] namaste



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