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Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "Whi... - 3/19/2008 3:20:20 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Everybody has some problem or personal issue or another, I know I have my own set of flaws and faults.

As of late, I have been finding myself with a bit of a struggle.  The girl, I have been seeing for the last couple of monthes has been totally amazing when she's sober.  However, when she's drinking a not so pleasent and out of control side appears.

We have sat down and had good heart to heart conversations about how she behaves when she is drinking.  She has a past of being Banned and kicked out of bars and even a small arrest records for incidents that have occured when she's drinking. 

She feels she has come a long way so far, in terms of being much better.  However, now on several occasions she has offended me while drinking.   In short she has become in a state of being verbally and even physically abusive on two occasions now.   One time, she started breaking things in her own room.   Killing a light, knocking things off her entertainment center.. and she was making the moves on her Computer Monitor, before I stepped in and Grabbed her and pinned her down to the bed.   Not a very pleasent experience for either one of us at the time.

When she's sober there is this amazing chemistry between us.   However, her behaviors from drinking have taken their toll on me.  Perhaps more so than normal.   In short, my natural father was an abusive alcoholic, this is why my mother left him around the time I was born.   I did not met him until I was 19 years old and I did not like what I saw at time, with his crazy behavior.  He went on the Wagon for 8 years and during that time, him and I got closer.  However, he went back to drinking.  I've had very little to do with him since.    My Grand parents adopted me when I was not even one year old.  My Grandfather was a functional alcoholic, and spent most of his free time at the bars after work.   At times when he was home, he was drunk cold and distant.  Not very affectionate when he was drunk.  I really became bitter towards him in the end and had very little to do with him until the day he passed away.

Basically, in a nut shell there is much from my own past, that is conflicting with what she is doing.  I've come to realize that I'm having a struggle with these demons from my past, and I'm trying hard to not let them skew things today.

Part of me feels like I can not tolerate nor go through this, that I have gone through enough.  Yet, part of me wants to find compassion and try to help. 

I know my own past negative experiences are coming into play during the Rocky Today.   How many couples out there have had to deal with similar conflicts?

I understanding many of the reasons why she drinks is the result of her own negative past.  We have been doing a lot of head butting lately and it's not been good.   I've been debating about simply packing it in on everything because of my own Negative past.

I'm not the type to bail it at the first sign of trouble.  Generally, tend to view it as a time to man up, however I find it difficult because of my own past.

I honestly today, feel like I have no other choice other then to pack it in and walk away for my own sanity.   Part of me feels like I am being a quitter and that I'm gonna be letting her down in a major way.   I know that this will cause her some hurt, and suspect it's been slowly distressing her as much as it has been me. 

She had wanted me to move in with her, however, I was finding it difficult to commit to doing this for the above reasons.  This week the issue of me moving in with her came to a push.  She has since backed off and became rather distant the last few days.   In short she was trying to push me into doing things her way to get me to move in with her.

I'm a little at a loss regarding the future, if any we have together.  In short, she's aware of her drinking and behavior when she drinks is a major issue for me.   She is feeling a little frustrated over what to do herself.

She is a Swicth with a very much of a Dom like personality.  So this ain't your typical D/s situation.  Hell, actually most vanilla girls would be perhaps more submissive towards me.   Actually not an issue of D/s save the fact she hates me trying to Boss her around about her Drinking and I hate her trying to Boss me around while she is Drinking.   I'm pretty flexiable, I can play as a Dom power couple or do the whole D/s relationship thing.

I know nobody can give me any solid advice on this one.   Advice in matters like this can be rather subjective.  

I am interested in hearing from anybody who has stuck or toughed it out with a Loved one that has had a drinking problem.

I am interested in hearing from people, who's own past has been them perhaps a little sensitive to seeing red flags all over again.  Nobody really enjoys to relive the past in a negative way again. 

I've basically reached tossed the ball in her court now.   It's not fair of me to expect her to change if she is not willing nor can not.  It's not fair to myself to continue onward either as well.

I am being pessimistic this morning and think this whole thing is just going to end.   People talk about Red Flags, I think I have reached the "White Flag" state of simply giving up and surrendering.   

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:26:52 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		Its very difficult to have an adult and healthy relationship with someone who has a relationship with a substance.  That substance will always, ALWAYS win out over you.

My guess is that you can give her the ultimatum --- me or booze.  In the end though, as you know and everyone will tell you, if she's not ready and doesn't want to do it for her, she won't.

Its going to take a lot from you, obviously, to continue this relationship -- its a good idea to protect yourself and stop now before you really get hurt further.  I know you don't want to hear that, but that might be the best course.  You might just end it without the ultimatum.

good luck, my heart goes out to you

ps ... what would you tell your best friend if he came to you with this problem?  That might be a way to step outside and look at it  -- helps me often.

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 3/19/2008 3:27:40 AM >

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:41:14 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Ultimately, I left my second husband because he was an alcoholic. He's a great guy, but... (ultimately, he wanted out when I said I'd never have his child while he was drinking...he said he'd never stop).

It's ok to say, "I love you, but you are toxic for me. I can no longer have you in my life."

If you're going to stay, you need to understand that she drinks because of HER stuff. You have control over how you react to it. I highly recommend Alanon meetings.

However, in our kind of relationships where we have one controling another, I think it's much harder to have a "you dig your own grave" kind of hands-off attitude that Alanon promotes. When it's the submissive who is drinking. I think we're in a relationship dynamic that allows the Dominant to demand they get help, which is also not quite what Alanon teaches. Doesn't mean they will...and if they don't, then you can decide if they're toxic for you.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:43:20 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I have always found it interesting that people who grow up around alcoholism seem to end up with it around? However,although I did not grow up in that kind of environment(my parents had one or two cocktails when out for dinner on a saturday night and alcohol in the liquor cabinet that is years old), I ended up married to a functioning acoholic and daily marijuana user. His personality didnt change, it was always quiet and distant. A few beers a night got in the way of any type of sexual relationship as I cant stand the smell. You may not think a few beers is a big deal but when you dont have sex because of it, basically he chose beer over me every time. Between that, and the marijuana and the distancing and depression there was no way to have intimacy either physically or mentally. Someone can say they love you but if actions dont agree, I say actions speak louder than words. When someone has a substance abuse problem they can not love. They are too numb. All you can do is save yourself and love yourself enough to walk away. If not you will end up in a pattern that will feel oh so much like what you lived as a kid. I dont imagine that would be fun.

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(in reply to Madame4a)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:54:32 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		How painful this must have been to write for you---My heart goes out to You---we can call stand here and tell you our thoughts, ideas, to do' or not to do's---and they will all be wise words--yet it is not our heart that is being wrenched into two.
 
However, life sends us hard choices--she has one, you have one--though addicted, she does what she does with free will--she can say no, she can say--today I begin anew---and until she does that as Maam says, she is more in love with the substance than the substance of the man.
 
You have a choice too, it seems you have looked long and hard at this, have spent a god deal of time in help and assistance----only you can make this choice, however, do not destroy yourself in the process.
 
I wish you well. Be well.

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:56:42 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Mmm I am a little confused byt the story (eventhough it is clear to soem degree). I see you switch between Ds and "normal" relation.
Is that a confusion? I mean do you think the you have to solve the drinking problem as Master?
(perhaps I mis read)

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:14:03 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Mmm I am a little confused byt the story (eventhough it is clear to soem degree). I see you switch between Ds and "normal" relation.
Is that a confusion? I mean do you think the you have to solve the drinking problem as Master?
(perhaps I mis read)


I was just adding clarification that this is not a D/s relationship.  That she indentifies personally with being "A Switch" and not submissive.  Basically, to add clarity to the situation that I'm not a Master to her, nor is she a slave.

In terms of D/s that's been limited to play in the bedroom, and in terms of me being Dom.  I have not let her push me around nor Boss me, in fact she adores this quality about me.  

Hope this clears up any confusion regarding the nature of the relationship dynamics at work.

In terms of Kinks, she's a very kinky girl and it's been anything but vanilla sex life so far.




(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:18:23 AM   
ScottyDont


Posts: 34
Joined: 4/25/2007
Status: offline 		You have to chose YOURSELF over HER and HER BOTTLE.

She can't get better till she WANTS to get better.  And, for that to happen - she has to HIT BOTTOM.

There is no way to save her.  Anything you do enables her to go on being destructive for longer, perhaps never getting help.

(in reply to Madame4a)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:27:24 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		There is only one thing a non-recovering addict is devoted to, only one thing they serve, only one thing they are deeply in love with...........their addiction. It trumps every other single thing in their life. Family, career, significant others, even their own children.

If you do not mind playing second fiddle to booze, stay. If you do not fear the future of any children she might bear you, stay. If you don't mind being lied to repeatedly, staying up all night wondering where she is, who she is with or even if she is alive, stay. If you don't mind getting phone calls at all hours, disrupting your job, your sleep, because she needs "saved"......stay.

I think you get the picture. I grew up with alchoholism all around me. It is very painful to know that while a person does love you to a degree, their love of booze is stronger. You cannot be her saviour, no matter how hard you try, how much you love her, how much she says she loves you. The booze will win.........until she decides to fight that battle for herself.

There is an old Meg Ryan movie that I suggest you find and watch. It is painful and yet still overly glamourized.

If I were you I would sit this woman down and tell her you are leaving and why. She may cry and beg and promise she will not drink anymore. OR she may get angry and try to convince you that it's all in your head, your problem....etc etc etc. Stay calm and explain to her why you cannot be around it, regardless of her opinion. If she promises to quit, tell her nothing would make you happier and that she should let you know how her recovery is going..... in six months.

Your leaving may be the trigger that causes her to get help or it may just be one bump in her long road. Either way, there is no reason you should suffer also.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:27:29 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		{I honestly today, feel like I have no other choice other then to pack it in and walk away for my own sanity.   Part of me feels like I am being a quitter and that I'm gonna be letting her down in a major way.   I know that this will cause her some hurt, and suspect it's been slowly distressing her as much as it has been me. )

Owner,
Your sanity is the best reason for making this tough decision to take care of yourself in this..
the 2nd best is > that nothing YOU will or can do will stop her from drinking.
    perhaps for a while..but her sobriety and health is something that she needs to find for herself.
 
  I spent 2o+ years of a 28 yr marriage feeling like it was up to ME to be the one finding and having compassion "enough" to stay and that my patience and love would one day make it all ok.
  
It is not important all the gory details of my experience.  What I can share are the basic tough lessons I eventually found and realized.
 
Staying no matter what, giving faux forgiveness, fixing things for her, ignoring your hurt and giving way to her needs above your own>  are actually enabling her to stay in denial about what the effects that her actions are having on her..her life  and the people around her.
 
No one has the right to make the decision for you whether to stay or leave. 
If you leave> You are not giving up or lacking compassion.
If you stay> You have to decide if you can do it in a way that will still allow her to feel her consequences and in a way that will allow you to still be healthy and take care of your needs over and above her manipulations and consequences that will begin happening to her.
 
No amount of love and helping will change her.  You cannot change another person, the only thing we can change is ourselves and how we let others effect us.
 
No amount of pleading, bargaining, challenging, threatening will make her want to be better for you.  She has to want to be better for herself> and that is generally only acheived by feeling her fair share of awful pain she causes herself and wanting it to be different.
   Don't protect her from her pain.  Don't protect her from her self.
 
I tried to "deal"  with it all alone.  Didn't want anyone else to know ( felt it was something I wasnt doing enough about and I let his actions define my relationship) .  What finally gave me clarity was doing just the opposite>  when I reached out to others who understood through living it.  For me it was Ala-non.
At first it pissed me off to be the one going to a group and getting "help" .  I would think > HE SHOULD be the one getting help from group or therapy!. 
But, I came to realize > I wasn't there for him...I was there for me : )  Taking care of myself and my needs finally.
 
You being an adult survivor of an addictive family/father> gives you special insights and yes demons.  Demons that are hard to shake and easy to repeat and perpetuate....The cycle stops when you stop it. 
 
Addiction is cunning, baffling and deadly. 
The substance you use, is only a symptom of an underlying problem.  Those that heal don't just do it by getting rid of the drink or the food or the needle or the sex....
 OR the person ( as in co-dependant people addicted),
but rather by getting the courage to look deep inside and deal with the underlying feelings and emotions that cause us to use and abuse ourselves.
 
Finding an alcoholic to love, probably feels pretty ironic and cruel to you right now.  But its actually not that unusual.   The mistakes and pain we do not learn from, we are destined to repeat or re-create until we do.  ( I didn't make that up  but cannot remember who said it right now..)
 
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you continue to take care of yourself and your happiness and sanity too..
 
kind regards
Cyndi
 
 

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:30:12 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		You have been getting some great advise. There is nothing you can do about her problem. Giving her an ultimatum will change nothing. She will just move on to someone else.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:33:23 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		good advice indeed, but it is hard to drop people you feel a lott for.
just don't yourself be dragged into it to much.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:35:12 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I know what its like to want to help someone but at the same time that you do that watch yourself be ripped apart. Your girl has to want to help herself, she is going to have to do the hard work and she is going to have to do it because she wants to otherwise it wont work. Walking away is difficult, but sometimes not walking away not only hurts you but hurts them too.

I was in a relationship where the other was struggling very much with issues from their past, a lot of those issues were things that I had when I was growing up, I tried to help, I talked about it and all that but I also found myself very resentful, when I dealt with it i didnt lash out or shout or anything, it felt a lot of the time like I was the only one trying and in the process being kicked and certainly not appriciatied for my support. I decided to walk away, not permanantly but I had to in the end put myself first and sort out my own life and I left saying that I would be around if i was needed but that I wouldnt just coming running and if they sorted themselves out then we could see if anything was worth fighting for.


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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:50:49 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		You have to decide if you can live with her as she is, because as others have said, SHE has to want to change and she has to want to do it for herself or she never will. You can't change her.

I had to make the decision to stay or go. My ex is an alcoholic and it is killing him. His liver is shot and he has been given up to a year at most to live by his doctors. He is 45. That time frame is a little over half through now. We have 4 children together and they, plus his other 2 are facing losing what's left of him forever. Our marriage was abusive. We were together for 11 years. The alcohol came first and still does for him. He has to have it everyday. In the last 18 years, he hasn't gone longer than a maximum of 3 weeks without it (and only perhaps twice doing so) except for the 4 years he was incarcerated (and yes alcohol was a huge factor in getting him incarcerated).

I can barely stand to be around people who are drinking anymore when the signs of it start to show. It triggers so many bad memories for me. I very rarely drink and never get drunk if I do. My max if I do drink is 2 drinks. I know this is painful for you with your family history. I did get involved after my ex was gone with another alcoholic for awhile. He was fun and never abusive, but his constant drinking killed any desire I had for him and any feeling faded pretty quickly to indifference. I shut down basically.

I wish you the best in this. Whatever you decide is going to be painful.

_____________________________

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Deviant Mind
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:53:18 AM   
MissLily


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		Look, I know you didn't want advice, but I study in the field, and there's a few things you really need to realise...

Statistically speacking, children that grew up with an alchoolic parent (s) usually end up with a partner that grew up with an alchoolic parent, or worst, has a substance abuse issue. So you have to be carefull with whom you team up with in life, because chances are you might very well end up with someone who learned the addiction behaviour pattern and with people who are greater risk of developping substance abuse...

You have to understand that her abuse is NOT going to stop unless she wants it to stop. And her substance abuse is serious enough to have an arrest record, to do physical damage and to be abusive to you. She clearly cannot control herself or her consumption. For example, ask yourself how many people get in that sort of trouble when they drink? Not that many....

She may say she's not as bad as she used to be, but 1-says who? 2- she's in too bad a shape to see herself like she really is. If addicts had a grasp on reality, do you think they would be addicts?

That you have an urge to help her is normal, considering the behaviour has hurt you so much in the past. But you simply CANNOT help an addict that is in denial. She gets pissed when you talk about it? She's in denial. She can't admit she's wrong. If she can admit that she's wrong and does not take the steps to stop (AA or any other treatment), then she's not ready to stop but most of all YOUR HELP IS USELESS.

With the past history that you have, please be careful of what you'll do in the future. This situation is NOT a good one for you, and keep in mind that your history predisposes you to find people who grew up around susbtance abuse or have one themselves.

You cannot do the work for her. AND she has already started to damage you. You need to take care of yourself. Like others posted before Me said, her main relationship is with the boose, not with you.

Please take care of yourself and make the decision that will preserve your integrity.

Miss Lily

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 5:09:55 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		based on personal experience, i've found that sticking it out with people who don't want to overcome their addictions to drugs/alcohol, does nothing but make my life miserable, adds way too much drama, and sucks the life right out of me to the point that i'm a frazzled mess myself; so, as soon as i see the problem, i bail.  i can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, but i can certainly save myself from becoming a part of their problem.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 5:13:07 AM   
Luciferica


Posts: 231
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline 		Agree wholeheartedly, if they want help thats one thing but most ppl like that are liabilities

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 5:15:46 AM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		*Frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices*....

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 5:20:53 AM   
abeke


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/15/2008
Status: offline 		     After reading this post several times, I finally stuck my own little feet in the shoes of this situation.    What would I do if it were me?
      First, I would definately attend Alanon, not only for the current issues that you are dealing with but because of the 'demons' from the past.    Just one thing about Alanon, it's for you.   It deals with your issues from the affects of alcoholism.   If you decide to go only to gain tools to help cure the alcoholic in your life, you'll be wasting your time.  
      The second thing I would do is have one more heart to heart.    I'd calmly say, "I am have a great amout of difficulty with this relationship because of the bottle.    I'd really like to have a relationship with you however, that can not be possible unless you get some help getting rid of the bottle.    I am willing to stand behind you and support you through recovery but if I am in no position just to deal with it.   It is not healthy for either one of us."
       I would know it's a toss of the coin here, either she would be willing to get help or not.   If she did not get help I'd have to walk because sometimes, a person has to think of themselves.    Sometimes, we have to put down the 'D/s code of ethics', sometimes we have to put down the "Strong  Master" personality or the "Good slave" personna, that have mixed views out there.   When it comes down to it we are all humans, and I would like to think that a "Strong Master" must know what is right in his own heart and walking away from a toxic relationship for his own good makes him strong.   The same goes for a 'Good Slave' a good slave must be good to herself first and walking away from a toxic person in my mind just shows her strength as a slave.      'D/s code of ethics' SSC, and in my mind this relationship lacks sanity, safety and it's definately not consensual.
        If she did decide to get help, I would remember that when one enters recovery, that person needs a whole lot of 'me' time.    She would need a great deal of time to focus on herself in a positive way simply because her focus on herself has been very negative.    It is difficult to focus on a relationship but it is even more difficult to focus on a relationship while trying to focus on your recovery.    I would make myself available to support her but not smother her and I would focus on my past demons as well in Alanon whether she decided to get help or not.
        Personally, I would rather leave a relationship with some good feelings about the person than stick around and allow those feelings to turn into bad ones.   Sometimes those feelings are never repairable.       
        I hope everything turns out okay and good luck to both of you.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 5:28:04 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		hi

my mum is an alcoholic, i have a friend who is an alcoholic and the one thing that i know for sure is this, if they dont want to quit, they wont.  no matter how destructive they are to themselves or the people around them.  in the end i had to put a distance between myself and these two people.  i love them, im there for them, but i am not going to hold their hands anymore.

loving who they are doesnt always make up for the times when booze makes them someone else.  and it isnt ok to let your emotional health go down the toilet because she chooses drink above all else.

guilt is huge in this situation but it isnt a healthy guilt or a constructive guilt and it isnt the basis for a relationship either.


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