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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 5:17:49 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Basic laws of thermodynamics which rule the universe:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.

The closest thing you can get to free energy is solar. As sure as Bush lies, the sun will come up. But that's not "free" energy, that's just tapping into the sun that powers everything on the planet.


And the only way you'll get that more efficient is to have huge solar sattelites that will catch it in space-convert it to something like microwaves,and beam it down to power stations for conversion. And it will still cost money.


That's the 50 year plan. Lotsa Nay-sayers about.

But those are the same kind of people who would have dismissed the idea of carrying around a mobile phone in your shirt pocket as "Science Fiction" or "Just Plain Crackpottery".



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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 6:02:23 PM   
MasterWilliam55


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Status: offline 		OK, OK, "beam me up" it is........................I'm waiting.

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 6:14:32 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth

The Goverment doesn't want you to have or know about Free Energy even when the Oil privces are going through the roof!!!



Interesting comment/post.

I've been studying wind turbines...ocean devices, solar panel devices.... that pick up any number of alternate energy sources and (they say) supply 15,000 homes with electricity....and I decided....

That I'd look more in to alternative power sources.

What I discovered is....if I attach an electrode to my right hand....and a diode to my cock....and I masturbate to a picture of Pamela Anderson....every night....

I can heat and run the fridge and TV for 17 homes in my immediate neighborhood.

(I'm here to help).

(Sue me...I'm a giver).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/20/2008 6:15:17 PM >

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 6:46:35 PM   
sharainks


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Status: offline 		Did you beam up already?

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 7:00:12 PM   
MasterRenegade77


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LMFKAO You Go Dude!!!


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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 7:00:26 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 I`ll be off or almost off the grid in ten years.Geo-thermal heating and a solar array.As soon as viable electric cars are available,I`m getting one.

We could easily produce a fleet of electric cars that the sun could power,reducing our oil consumption a shit load.

We could start and build up over time a huge solar bank to supplement the other sources of power.

Wind power is taking off,with a little more incentive,they`ll also add to the energy pie.

We should fit every south-west facing roof with solar panels and make all new buildings green and super insulated.

Conservation is the lowest hanging fruit on the energy tree and we should do all we can to conserve.

All these things will create millions of jobs,green jobs for a new green economy.

All we need is the leadership.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/20/2008 7:03:25 PM >

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 7:01:12 PM   
MasterRenegade77


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Bye Y'all
LOL


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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 7:10:52 PM   
MasterRenegade77


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^5s I'm with you 100%
But We already had electric cars & the Oil co.s didn't want them Produced so they had GM recall & crush them...
Check out
http://lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=3929&IssueNum=159


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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 10:11:15 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Your number 3 is not correct domken. 

A steam engine is not fueld by water, but by heat (from a variety of sources).  Steam trains were powered by Coal or wood, not water.
Heat plus water making steam which spins a turbine with magnets is how we make most of our power.  Even a nuclear plant simply replaces the coal to boil water with a nuclear reaction to boil water.

A fuel cell does NOT collect heat and convert it to electrcity. 

A steam engine requires water as much as it requires heat. In traditional applications steam is used at very high pressures and a bleed valve is used to keep steam pressure from rupturing the vessel which does mean that periodically more water must be added which makes it fuel IMO. Nuke plants are different but even there primary coolant water must be periodically replaced.

A fuel cell should collect heat if it is going to work by splitting water. Present hydrogen cells can generate curent directly but for water to work as a fuel you have to break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen first and then use the hydrogen in the actual cell and in that case you might as well not throw away all the heat generated by breaking that chemical bond which you had to put energy into breaking in the first place.

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 10:40:33 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

RealOne should pop up any time now.

Holy moly, isn't there enough hoohaw on the net without posting it here?  I mean, Mythbusters disproved the free energy stuff over a year ago.

thornhappy



It was disproven a long time before that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 10:44:37 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`ll be off or almost off the grid in ten years.Geo-thermal heating and a solar array.As soon as viable electric cars are available,I`m getting one.

We could easily produce a fleet of electric cars that the sun could power,reducing our oil consumption a shit load.

We could start and build up over time a huge solar bank to supplement the other sources of power.

Wind power is taking off,with a little more incentive,they`ll also add to the energy pie.

We should fit every south-west facing roof with solar panels and make all new buildings green and super insulated.

Conservation is the lowest hanging fruit on the energy tree and we should do all we can to conserve.

All these things will create millions of jobs,green jobs for a new green economy.

All we need is the leadership.
Why solar panels? Use solar shingles.

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/20/2008 11:48:39 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Actually a steam engine does not require water, any liquid that will convert to a steam will do.  They are doing some very interesting work with closed systems, that boil at a much lower tempaerature than water, requiring less energy input.  But the steam is not fuel, it is used mechanically.  The energy from the Fuel is converted to pressure which moves things.  The steam is simply a medium.  And the system can be designed as sealed, never needing more liquid added, just fuel to heat the liquid.

Fuel cells do not collect or use heat in the process, they give off heat and water.
Some get quite hot, and they recapture the heat in a boiler, to heat or preheat water. Electricity into water is not the only way of creating hydrogen.

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/21/2008 12:21:18 AM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
Status: offline 		General reply:

It's obvious that free energy exists. As where would all energy come from to begin with. Some set of criteria must occur to cause it's creation, or else we wouldn't be here watching the results dillute.

The question isn't really if free energy exists, IMO, it is can we recreate the environment in which it occurs. That's speculative as hell, and maybe impossible. It seems to me the one thing that is certain that the abscence of energy seems to invite its creation. As in at the beginning of everything, there was only one variable and that variable (absolute emptiness, true nothingness), must in that state warp into something. It must because we are here. It sounds crazy and may be, but what other explanation can there be. It was always here? That's just as insane and to me even more insane.

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/21/2008 2:43:41 AM   
shallowdeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

It's obvious that free energy exists. As where would all energy come from to begin with. Some set of criteria must occur to cause it's creation, or else we wouldn't be here watching the results dilute.

An interesting point, and something that I am, at times, fascinated with. It makes me recall Aasimov's The Last Question.

Interesting as it may be philosophically, any creation of energy/matter or reversal of entropy is highly speculative, as you point out, and really transcends science - which, while never an absolute truth, is a highly useful construct for understanding nature. While science has limitations, the body of scientific evidence is pretty convincing that all the schemes you hear about for "free energy" are bunk. The burden of proof lies extremely heavily on the supposed inventor. If any were genuine violations of the laws of thermodynamics, it wouldn't be that hard to demonstrate... and you really need to possess a lot of faith in conspiracies to believe it's the sort of thing that would, or could, be suppressed.

I'm willing to believe God (or an omnipotent computer - read the linked story) might be able to create energy; however, until someone can actually be bothered with following some of the basic principles of the process of scientific discovery (like independent reproducibility) when announcing their breakthroughs, I think it's important to at least try to dissuade people from falling for the allure of bad science.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER - Multivac c. 2060

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 12:18:57 PM   
Real0ne


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The term "free energy" has been hijacked by the backyard scientists to mean energy for free.  Free energy is really energy released from an action that can do work, not as in zero cost.

That said most of the free energy devices are made by people who frankly have no clue how to properly measure their devices.  They spnd all the money divorce the wife to follow their edisons dream, (edison would try a million different things and waste years instead of a little math to get different results), then they go on the road looking for money.

While nueman has some good theory on certain parts of his lecture, I have no reason to believe he is legitimate.  My reasoning is that I called him up one fine day and told him I was intertested in his project and wanted to check it out, you know kick the tires and what not.   Sooooo I asked him if I could bring my test equipment and hook his unit up to a couple chart recorders to see what its doing and he immediately went into this god that god and 15 minutes of bullshit lecturing finalizing it by asking for money.  Well I said sure if it checks out. CLICK!  The end of conversation LOL

There are a lot of tricks these guys use....anything with batteries, power from the earths magnetic field, ran out of time, thats my favorite, ran out of time, thats when the batteris went dead! LOL

The people to look to are tesla, ponds flieshmann, moray, and believe it or not some of the latest sandia labs experimentation.  These have nice potential should anyone get the financing to make it happen.

There is not such thing as energy for free, but there is such a thing as rediculous efficiency.

      

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 12:21:59 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

RealOne should pop up any time now.

Holy moly, isn't there enough hoohaw on the net without posting it here?  I mean, Mythbusters disproved the free energy stuff over a year ago.

thornhappy



It was disproven a long time before that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics


Yeh you sound like one of the people who think the fastest thing known to man is the speed of light LOL

As far as free energy is concerned the sun IS free energy.  As is the ocean and wind.   LOL





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/22/2008 12:23:20 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 1:54:38 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

Just one example of how to Make free energy...
How to Power Your Car Using Magnets - HacknMod.com

This is funny because I had the same idea growing up and I thought it was going to make me a millionaire. The thing I didn’t realise is that perpetual motion machines break the first rule of thermodynamics you know the one about energy can’t be created or destroyed it just changes forms bla bla etc. Even if that machine was able to spin endlessly which I honesty doubt due to the fact frictional resistance will play a part at some point, you can’t ignore the fact that spinning wheel has no other resistance at present. As soon as you hook it up to a generator the torque will be insufficient to move magnets and thus drive electrons through coiled wire. In fact the idea that you can create energy from magnets forcing other magnets to rotate and drive electrons through wire is ludicrous. Why not dispense with the motion element and place one of your magnets next to a length of wire and see how much energy is produced? Didn’t you ever do that experiment at school where you turned a handle on a generator and then switched circuits to power more light bulbs thus finding the handle harder to turn? That is the load demand and if that is greater than the force produced by magnets then no motion will occur. Now there aren’t many naturally occurring magnets that can pick up cars so I doubt magnets can be found with enough magnetic energy to get the same car up a hill. Unless maybe the magnet recharges a battery and after ten years you can take your car out for a five minute spin.

The future is hydrogen powered cars nothing can be simpler than producing hydrogen from water through electrolysis and then combusting it with oxygen to get the fuel you started with i.e. water. The only imperfection with this idea is the energy required for electrolysis which I take it can come from solar panels.

I agree the future is exciting but it will never happen as long as people fall for the dreams handed out by oil companies i.e. fast, powerful cars etc. It needs a cultural change and that seems a long way off. If there is no demand for these technologies they will never be able to compete with current outdated ideas. I’m not saying anything here that isn’t obvious and people are weak they can’t do the right thing naturally so they must be forced to do so through taxation.


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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 4:16:30 PM   
Real0ne


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One of the problems are that nothing is as convenient as pumping in some gas and go.  Little maintenance here and there and you are off.  Once upon a time way back in trogladite era there were more electric cars than there were gas.  Gas won because they were cheaper and fuel was dirt cheap.  Once upon a time. 

Tesla wanted to run everyones electric cars off his tower no batteries no charge up no fill up even more convenient than gas but he got there too late oil already had taken over and no one can butt heads with the oil industry.  You either sell out or  you meet with an accident like all those people that were invvolved with clintons and whitewater.  Lots of accidents in those days.

Tongue and cheek I will say there already are perpetual motion machines sort of.   You cant get any free energy off of them worth speaking of but then no one has ever built a hugemongous one either so until then we may never know.

The closest thing to perpetual motion that I know of is the sun but even the sun will very slowly over time lose its hydrogen and implode.

As for magnets you bet you can pull not only a car but a semi up a hill.  Put then 24 - 2" disks on a 24" diameter rim and use it for a motor.  Those 2" neodyn rare earth mags have a 100lb holding force which a quick ball park if you pass 4 of then at the same time id 400 ft/lbs of torque, the same as a seriously souped up 454 chevy big block.   The problem with magnets is you cant switch then on and off and trying to get rid of the vortex takes more energy than you get out.

My vote is for hydrogen electric hybrid.




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/22/2008 4:19:17 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 7:52:41 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		I'm glad you're speaking out against the government in this wonderful display of open-mindness.  It's a shame that the government's surpressing these technologies!

You know, I'm a scientist and engineer.  I keep trying to make some of these sorts of machines, but the damn government keeps not funding me, and big oil keeps threatening me!  They hate the idea that there might be infinite power out there!  It threatens their hold on the economy.  I mean, sure, if we had infinite energy, even the poorest people would have more than the richest people today do.. so they'd benefit.. but they're still stopping it!

So, tell you what.  Send me 10 kUSD now, and you can have 50% of the profits when I build the infinite energy machine!

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RE: Free Energy another Inconvenient Truth - 3/22/2008 9:27:34 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yeh you sound like one of the people who think the fastest thing known to man is the speed of light LOL
What do you mean?

quote:

As far as free energy is concerned the sun IS free energy.  As is the ocean and wind.   LOL
For all practical purposes, yes.





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