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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 11:50:58 AM   
Dnomyar


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The Little Engine that could is a book about life. A good book about BDSM is hard to come by because everyone is different.

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 12:30:19 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

~ peeling an onions skin, doesn't make you cry. yet.
 ~ peeling away the layers when the onion is raw, might bring tears sometimes depending upon the age of the onion.
  ~It is when you cut down into the onion with a knife and penetrate the core that the tears begin.
~ IF you apply warmth and time  ( as in grilling or baking) then the layers open up naturally, bitterness doesn't surface and the noxious oils become neutralized and the taste is sweeter..
 
so, what if that is applied to a person wanting to get to their own core self..
~Layers that are exposed gradually, will come away with fewer tears.
~Prematurely cutting to the core, rather than going through the peeling process, WILL produce noxious results.
~The older the onion with no peeled back layers( few lifelessons or few not learned from), the more bitter the core is.
~Providing yourself with time  to learn, to experience, to evolve  and warmth ( self-kindness, self-respect and self-love) will cause the layers to open on their own and our core will emerge naturally.
 
My life experiences have gone hand in hand with my ability to know my genuine self, it seems.
Some wonderful and some quite painful...but I try not to think of them as regrettable, because each one has peeled back another layer and I've been allowed to see a part of me I most likely wouldn't have without the experience.
 
Some days I feel pretty enlightened and then other days I feel naive still ( somedays just plain stupid), realizing I still have much to learn and more layers still exist, I am not quite to my core-self.
 
But, my journey there cannot be copied by others.  If I were to write a book about my life experiences and then call it a self-help book and tell others to do exactly what I did  ( Gawd help them!) they would not end up in the same place I am right now.  You cannot teach someone how to FEEL or react to those feelings.  You can instruct someone to learn , but you cannot teach them how to comprehend it, absorb it, think, feel or apply those lessons to themselves and their lives.  That is individual and rightly so.
 
  I believe we are ready to learn when we are ready to learn.  We become aware of what we are able to cope with and handle.  The mind and the psyche protects us from the rest, until we are ready to deal.
 Hence the bitterness and tears when a knife cuts through to the core of an onion before the layers have been allowed to be peeled away.
 
 
  So to write an essay or a book advising others how to feel their submission....how to feel love...how to feel their feelings....how to find their core-self.......imo,just cannot be done.
Everyone experiences those things in their own way and in their own time

So, on one of those enlightened days I have sometimes, I may be able to give  definition to the way I feel or what submission means or feels like, or what love is and feels like > but that is only my definition according to my life-experiences, not anyone elses..
 
Some things in life are like corduroy
  You might be able to teach someone how to recognize it, but you cannot teach them how to feel it...only experiencing the feeling defines that experience for them.
 
Cyndi
 


  Bita is on the mark as usual, thank you for starting such a thought provoking topic.
Everyone has contributed great answers, but TysGaliah, you have given me something to
really think about.
I love this place!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 12:58:30 PM   
Gwynvyd


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As many others have said books can be a great tool.. but no one book could teach the masses. I also think it has a lot to do with personal experiances.. and how you take those personal experiances. How you react to them.

No one controls your happiness but you. No one controls your sadness but you. Some times you can not determine what will happen in your life... but you can always determine how you will react to it.

My mother always told us that you could be the poorest person.. a street sweeper in Bangladesh... sweeping up after the homeless, and animals. Poor with 10 hungry children to feed. But be the most blessed and happiest soul in the world because of how you feel. Or you could be on top of the world, with lots of money, and cars.. vacation homes, friends and sycophants hanging on every word and action you made.... and be the most miseriable and wretched creature. It is all in how *You* form your own experiances.. and your own life. How you *chose* to take things as they happen to you.

We have all seen those people who have such a big hole in them that can never be filled with _enough_ Enough of anything... they are never happy.. never pleased with anything that comes to them in thier lives.

I have on my profile something my mother and grandmother emparted me with that I shared with a friend from here.

Our material possessions can come and go.. our looks fade... we age.. Loved ones leave us, and some even die.

What we carry within ourselves can not be purged, can not be lost.. can not be cut away. Not unless we allow it to be.

Only we can decide to be the person we wish to be. We can make that concious descion and *choose* who we are going to "grow up" to be.

Others can help us along our paths.. but only we can do the growing.

I was talking to a submissive a few weeks back and we were talking about personal growth. This is what I emailed her back... she was worried about not knowing much and just starting off and what kind of person she wants to be...

We all have a starting point... many people forget that... esp. in the lifestyle. No one comes out of the box knowing everything about any one topic.. or knowing themselves. It is the journey... not the destination. But the journey makes us stronger and makes us more of who we are.

I remember when I was much younger I had a great mentor.. my mother and grandmother. They sat me down and asked me what type of person do you want to be?  At first I just shruged ( Mind you I was 8 years old.. I had no idea. ) Then each time they would come to me, or I would think apon it.. I would add words that would describe what sort of person I wanted to become. We can all make that choice of who we end up being.. it doesnt have to be some great mistake that we end up being this or that type of person.. we can cultivate ourselves. I think it is the most important work we do in our lives other then cultivating our children.

Every time I chose a word I would think what sort of deeds or things would make me more like that word? I went about to become more of myself.

I didnt care if any one else would like the end result.. what they would think, if they would think I was popular, or if I would be seen as a weaker person for wanting to help others. I just did and continue to do what makes me happy. What makes me me.. It is mostly subconious now. If something goes against the grain of who I am I know it pretty quickly.. and I simply do not do it.

I formed my own moral code of ethics. (others didnt seem right, or didnt suit me perfectly) I know if I bend, or try to go against my own code I am only hurting myself. I am not trying to live by someone elses standards.. so if I fail it.. I am failing myself.. which is a far cry worse then failing any one else. There are always repercussions of doing that.. I am living with one right now.

Enjoy your journey it can be trying.. but even in the trials it is wonderous and beautiful.



I hope this helps if someone is in the middle of "becoming"

I am always in the middle of "becoming" *smiles*



I think cultivating who you are.. and sticking to your own moral code is to your own self being true. No one can give you an all encompasing manual on that or tell you exactly how to do it... but I do believe people can lead by example... and by being a good friend.. and listening when you stumble on your path of becoming.

Just my 2 ducats...

I hope it helps.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 2:04:44 PM   
BitaTruble


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Thanks to everyone. I loved reading all your answers. I guess it's my turn to answer my own questions.

First, I absolutely do believe that it's possible to write a 'how to' book on the subject which can appeal to a mass audience regardless of any one individuals current circumstance. That said, not only do I believe that it's possible, I believe it has already been done hundreds of thousands of times and not just in books either, but in songs, in movies, in poems etc.

The Bible, Pinochio, Rainmaker, Tale of Two Cities .. each one of those and thousands upon thousands of others have some 'how to' process instilled within their pages. They speak to possibilities, cause and effect, dreams and realities all of which are part of the human experience. A guide which is comprehensive, written by someone with a knack for explaining complex concepts in a simple language, could, indeed, appeal to a mass audience in that individuals would likely be able to take something of substance from its pages which can help them get inside their own heads. Is it a worthy effort though?

I asked if it was possible for someone to instinctively know their core and then whether or not it would be an exception or a rule. I think, for the most part, it is instinctive but often goes unacknowledged, so I think it's a rule rather than an exception but a lot of us have to work at accepting what we know is our inner truth. To my mind, those are two very different concepts .. the knowing and the accepting.

The knowing, not so tough. The accepting? That can be a very difficult journey especially if there are some qualities about yourself that you find disturbing and that leads me to a bit of a conundrum with "This above all, to thine own self be true."

What if your true self is a real ass? What if your true self is an abuser or robot or a doormat or a monster? Being true to yourself isn't, necessarily, a good thing.

I wrote a few days ago that a Master will have the sort of slave or submissive which he deserves, not the sort of slave or submissive which he wants. Unless and until someone is willing to work at being who they 'want' to be, shedding those truths or concepts within themselves which are detrimental to that ideal, then being true to yourself may not be all it's cracked up to be.

In the end, do we really need a book which explains in an enumerated process, how to peel back the layers to see what's at the core? Can't we just say, look in the mirror with a hard and honest eye and you'll see it? Whether or not you change what you see is, of course, up to you.


Celeste

edited to laugh - I just read Gwyn's response and I could have saved myself a whole lot of typing by just saying pretty much ... yeah, ditto!

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 3/24/2008 2:07:19 PM >


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 3:14:44 PM   
TracyTaken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Is it possible to enumerate a process which is applicable to a mass audience in gaining personal insight? Can one, in a written format, give such a 'how to' so most all of us, old or new, dom, sub or switch, alternative or vanilla, etc. etc. have an equal chance at benefitting from such enumeration? Is it arrogant to think that one person has the knowledge, insight and ability to write such a 'how to' which has the potential to be of benefit to a large group of people?

If such is possible, why do you believe it hasn't been done before?



I don't know if it's "been done" before, but it's sure been attempted.  Not "how to" exactly, but a general approach.  I'd recommend "The Road Less Traveled" as the best book I've ever seen that addresses about what you are talking about.  Note though that the author, Scott Peck, had lots of his own issues, changed his mind about things, went through religious conversions, went through a period where his own adult kids wouldn't speak to him -  and he is still living less than perfect life.

<snip>

quote:

After all, we, all of us, share a basic human experience going through the same sorts of emotions and even though our personal experiences all differ, isn't peeling an onion just a matter of having the right tool in your possession or is getting to one's inner core too complex a subject, too vast, too full of twists and turns to ever be able to be enumerated in a single 'how to?'


We are not onions.  We change constantly.

quote:

Last but not least - do you believe that one can be true to oneself without a process at all if one knows, instinctively, what their core contains and if so, do you believe that's an exception or a rule?


"Instinctively"?  I don't know.  I do think that a person with the level of self-knowledge and self-honestly that you seem to be talking about is probably very near death - gazing into the eyes of the end.  I think that completely grasping that one *ends* completely unhinges one's own ego - probably for the first time since infancy.  Then you'd have "self-knowlege" for real. 

I haven't gotten anywhere near there.  I know that certain segments of Buddhist monks spend their lives trying to embrace the fact that they will die.  It's a strange thing - but if we can't really grasp that, how much about ourselves can we grasp?  We are interesting, for sure.  :)


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 5:54:51 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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MasterFireMaam said it before me- the operative word in that phrase is "BE"!

You are an experience of yourself.  The very process of trying to translate what "being" is alters the being itself.  While the strength of written word is its semi-permanence, it is also its weakness.  We are not semi-permanent in any way that can be translated into words.  Words are so ugly, so raw, so clumsy, so USELESS when it comes to actually COMMUNICATING it's amazing we still use them at all!

But they are what we have.

Also, most people don't want to be who they are.  They'd have to learn to listen and strip away the fear of not being who they've been taught to be.  So even if you did give it all to them (which I think we do give to ourselves all the time), they wouldn't listen, they wouldn't BE themselves.

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 6:42:22 PM   
subtee


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It might have been more kind to give us more of an indication into what you were imagining, instead of posing a hypothetical to which you would ultimately deride anyone who answered honestly and who didn't have the frame of reference that you ultimately provide.

No one is a "true ass" or a doormat or robot. Certainly you understand that. Onion? Layers?

quote:

In the end, do we really need a book which explains in an enumerated process, how to peel back the layers to see what's at the core? Can't we just say, look in the mirror with a hard and honest eye and you'll see it? Whether or not you change what you see is, of course, up to you.


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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 7:04:18 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

It might have been more kind to give us more of an indication into what you were imagining, instead of posing a hypothetical to which you would ultimately deride anyone who answered honestly and who didn't have the frame of reference that you ultimately provide.

No one is a "true ass" or a doormat or robot. Certainly you understand that. Onion? Layers?



First of all, I have no idea what you mean by kindness. I didn't post a hypothetical. I posted a series of questions because I was curious about the answers that people might have. I wasn't imaging anything when I wrote the OP and I hadn't come to any conclusions myself when I wrote the OP. The thread which I referenced was pointed out to me by a friend and I read it at 2 AM in the morning. After reading it, the OP is what I was inspired to write.  I had no preconceived notions as to any answers when I wrote it and I processed it myself as I went through to answer the questions. My response post evolved as I wrote it which is the way most of my writing comes about and the conclusions I came to were what transpired in my own head as I tried to clarify my own thoughts on whether such a book could be or should be written.

I believe that you believe there are no true asses, robots or doormats. I believe different.

Onions? Layers? = metaphor, nothing more, nothing less

Celeste

edited for an errant e.


< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 3/24/2008 7:12:59 PM >


_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 7:41:30 PM   
subtee


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I am a writer too and I admire your writing. As a writer, I don't believe that you or I or any other writer begins a piece without at least an initial percolation of our own thoughts on the matter. Disingenuous. My writing evolves my thinking too and vice versa, but that is not antithetical to what I suggested. My reality--caveat.

True asses? Robots? Doormats? Please explain this, after having allowed we are all layered as onions?






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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 8:23:23 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

I am a writer too and I admire your writing. As a writer, I don't believe that you or I or any other writer begins a piece without at least an initial percolation of our own thoughts on the matter. Disingenuous. My writing evolves my thinking too and vice versa, but that is not antithetical to what I suggested. My reality--caveat.


Well, I don't know what to say. I was surprised at the way my mind veered as I went through to answer the questions and had a bit of a lightbulb moment. I can't force you to believe that, nor would I try. It just is what it is. You're entitled to your opinion as to any motivation you care to attribute to me. I've clarified how the process took place and that's all I can do.

quote:

True asses? Robots? Doormats? Please explain this, after having allowed we are all layered as onions?



Well, it's not so much that I'm allowing anything of anyone. I just think it's pretty fundamental that people are going to be influenced by events outside of their internal natures and that creates various layers. I acknowledge I could be wrong about it. I don't think I am, but I could be.

That said, I'm not sure what it is that you want me to explain. When you peel back everything which society, family, the media, teachers, friends, clergy, siblings and we, ourselves heap on to the ground floor of our own natures there could be all sorts of core characteristics to an individual, including being a sinner, a saint, an ass, a genius etc.

At my core is an addict, a dreamer, a care giver and many other characteristics which make up the person I 'am' born to be. Well, I don't want to be all those things. I don't want to be an addict but it is part of my core, so it would just be the easiest thing in the world for me to be an addict and it takes a lot of work on my part for me 'not' to be an addict. I choose to do that work. I choose to remain sober. I choose not to indulge in drugs. I want to be better than my core would allow. I want to be better than my truth would allow.. I can't change my truth, but I can change my actions and not allow my truth to rule me. It was as I wrote my response post that I realized that about myself, so I wrote what I was feeling in that moment.

There was a time when I chose to embrace those things of myself which are bad .. as you can imagine, it wasn't pretty. It was destructive both to myself and my family and those who loved me.  I paid some penalities for my prior actions and I take full responsiblity for them but I also learned from those mistakes and that's what enables me to prevent myself from repeating them. I will always be tempted to do a line of coke. I love coke. I love how it makes me feel. I love the energy it gives me. I will always be tempted by it because I'm addicted to it ... that's why I won't ever let myself go there again. I know that a single line of coke will destroy what I have with Himself and lead me backwards down into a pit which I climbed out of a long time ago. How do I know someone can be an ass at their core? Personal experience. ::chuckles::

If that wasn't the explanation you were looking for and you'd care to clarify what you'd like to know, I'd be happy to respond. Along with trying to be better as a human, I've tried my best to be as honest as I can. I slip now and thing - I'm still human, but, over all, I do pretty good. I'm not proud of my past, but I do accept it and I'm responsible for it and I work really hard so as not to repeat all the mistakes I've made. I don't want to hurt anyone any more and I don't want to hurt anymore either.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 8:24:00 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:


This is why I applaud any positively written article, book or process that offers an approach to find ones inner core - whether it be a concept or written detail.  One never knows what will touch someone else, so to call bullshit on even offering up a "meatless" concept is, in my opinion, destructive.


I find this quote interesting.  On one side ... it speaks to the idea that a person can benefit when they are able to find an approach to find ones inner core.  There is the idea that as unique human beings we should not judge negatively any concept or written idea because it may touch one person and be useless to the masses. 

However, on the otherside.... It is any Positively written article, book or process.   But who decides that it is a Positively written article book or process in the first place.  The natural answer seems to be the person who positively benefits from such written article, book or process... and this is where the problem begins.  Since it then brings into acceptance that countless articles, books or process that have shown themselves to be destructive to people and society.   Since a bare few find benefit in a particular writing for example, even when countless millions of people where destructively affected by it. 

Consider the book Mein Kampf!  Many at time it was written found an ideology they could embrace... but at the expense of so many. 

Fact is... there is many written articles, books and process that are NOT in the best interest of society, groups or individuals.  There are organizations, cults, groups, individuals that have promoted ideas in a variety of means including the written word that is destructive to the many for the benefit of a few.

I don't believe we should foolishly accept because it is of benefit of just one that it is worthy to be printed.  It like all things should stand up to the scrutiny and be fairly judged for it's benefit for individual and society.  In the end, our morals, values and principles will have a decided influence on these types of judgements.  We will continue to consider individual vrs society when we make these kind of judgements.  Should it be written?  yes... I am a believer in Free speech.... but free speech doesn't equate to freely accepted.  Freely judged on it's merits is what I believe what it means... and some will be judged destructive.  Unfortunately, some may suffer before people stop listening to the person selling the poison.

I think it is bullshit that a concept can benefit a few but harm millions... Fortunately some people stood against this concept and far fewer were harmed that could of been otherwise.

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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 8:44:50 PM   
subtee


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Writing process aside (although maybe someday it would be interesting to investigate), let me just focus on the onion thing:

I'm an asshole.
quote:

 I just think it's pretty fundamental that people are going to be influenced by events outside of their internal natures and that creates various layers. I acknowledge I could be wrong about it
Yes, even us "true assholes."

quote:

When you peel back everything which society, family, the media, teachers, friends, clergy, siblings and we, ourselves heap on to the ground floor of our own natures there could be all sorts of core characteristics to an individual, including being a sinner, a saint, an ass, a genius etc.


This is where it gets tricky. How do we explain ourselves? To ourselves? How do we explain our characters to our readers? There is no room for absolutes, it seems to me, and that is what I was wondering about in your response to your OP.

quote:

I don't want to hurt anyone any more and I don't want to hurt anymore either.


I so understand this. Why I asked.


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 9:11:04 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Writing process aside (although maybe someday it would be interesting to investigate), let me just focus on the onion thing:

I'm an asshole.
quote:

 I just think it's pretty fundamental that people are going to be influenced by events outside of their internal natures and that creates various layers. I acknowledge I could be wrong about it
Yes, even us "true assholes."

quote:

When you peel back everything which society, family, the media, teachers, friends, clergy, siblings and we, ourselves heap on to the ground floor of our own natures there could be all sorts of core characteristics to an individual, including being a sinner, a saint, an ass, a genius etc.


This is where it gets tricky. How do we explain ourselves? To ourselves? How do we explain our characters to our readers? There is no room for absolutes, it seems to me, and that is what I was wondering about in your response to your OP.

quote:

I don't want to hurt anyone any more and I don't want to hurt anymore either.


I so understand this. Why I asked.



I'm completely lost. I don't understand your writing style, your method of quoting, your questions or your reponses. It's foreign and cryptic to my eye. In a nutshell, I don't get what it is you are saying or if you are asking something or if you have something else in mind. That said, I'm going to sleep on this and, hopefully, come back with a fresh mind tomorrow where perhaps a lightbulb will go off and I'll get it. Until then, I wish you a good night.
Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 9:28:46 PM   
cjan


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I don't think people actually have a "core", even though it may seem like it. What seems like a core is a collection of "habits" and conditioning that have their own dynamic. Imo, human beings are a process, constantly changing. How can that "have a core"?

Onions have no core either, if ya look, only layers. Nothing that exists has a "core". It's all just atoms and subatomic particles constantly moving, changing.

So, to more directly address the OP's topic, perhaps , rather than thinking in terms of peeling an onion, it may be wiser to think in terms of flowers. Each different, allowed to grow and unfold in it's own natural way.


_____________________________

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" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



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RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 9:47:03 PM   
SimplyMichael


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When I started  into BDSM I read everything I could find, starting with The Loving Dominant, Dossies stuff, Moser's stuff, all the gay leather books, even bdsm books that few people here have ever heard of let alone read, like On The Safe Edge.  I even have two first editions of Steeles book although I must admit, that was one I didn't read on the advice of someone I trust.

I know for me, what was missing in ALL the BDSM books I read and believe me, I read most of them, was any mention of what was and was not a healthy relationship.    There are roughly three categories you could put BDSM books into, writings for gay leathermen, east coast het and west coast het.  The Gay leatherman stuff focused mainly on hot sex and how to top and bottom.  The west coast stuff assumed that people were a bit more healthy and the east coast stuff never even considered relationship skills.  That was the earlier waves of literature.

I think that Midori's new book is the start of a new wave of deeper and better writing, something that better bridges the gap on how to go from vanilla to kink.  What I would love to see and may perhaps take a stab at writing is something that goes farther.  Something that provides a mirror into which someone can look and evaluate themselves, their patterns, their relationships, their successes and failures.

It can't be that hard.  I mean look at the boards, the patterns of posts are sometimes mind numbingly repetitious.  We see the same patterns over and over and over.  Somehow there has to be a better way of helping people work through this stuff.  Sure some of the books for bdsm aren't very good but look at the age of the subject!  Books on it are relatively new,  The Leatherman's handbook is only 30, SM101 a bit over a decade, Midori's book is still in its first print run I think.

It would have been amazing to see something in print that was as clear as LA, as blunt as CrappyDom, and as insightful and inspiring as KOM.  We have some amazing posters on this site and I only named three.  I have read some amazing stuff from them, stuff that people in threads repeat over and over "oh my god if I had only read that a few years ago"...

So, I stand by my belief a solid helpful book that would help many have better BDSM relationship is not only possible but deeply needed.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 9:48:10 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
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~FR~

Just to clarify. The OP was inspired by this article which was made known to me by reading another thread. I made this new thread because it fell outside the parameters of the other one and I didn't want to bump it just to move it to a new direction.

Hope that clears things up.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 10:09:43 PM   
OTKkindaGirl


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Joined: 12/26/2005
From: NW Arkansas
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hmmm..... i beg to differ!  what is the part of the apple i don't eat.... i believe it is a core.... it has substance, it has life within it... i think it may be called a seed..... and what is within that seed?  another core with the ability to become a tree..... and what is within that tree that can produce what?  more apples?   okay.... maybe we should talk oranges because i think there you may have a small point...especially if it's a naval orange (you know, those seedless ones).  *wink*

there is always something to be revealed no matter what you are looking at.  everything in this world (even this earth) has some form of  layer and beneath the layers there is a core.  and sure it all comes down to the atom, but hell that is what the microscope is for!  and i am fairly certain that the genuis that come up with that learning tool didn't have a how to book when he created it.  my point is.... we each learn from those around us, things around us, influences in our life if we are observant enough to really see the big picture of  it!. every single one of us has the ability to use common sense, to watch, to listen and actually hear, to hopefully comprehend enough to learn.   it's all about discovery and learning that is how you get to the core of things, the essence of the object in question's very existance.  i am far from a know it all and this is just my opinion. 

live and learn.... from everything.... and everyone. 

ps  cjan,  i did appreciate your analogy of the flowers (and yes i think flowers have their own core as well)  







_____________________________

~~ lil darlin' ~~
hope



(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 10:34:07 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:


This is why I applaud any positively written article, book or process that offers an approach to find ones inner core - whether it be a concept or written detail.  One never knows what will touch someone else, so to call bullshit on even offering up a "meatless" concept is, in my opinion, destructive.


I find this quote interesting.  On one side ... it speaks to the idea that a person can benefit when they are able to find an approach to find ones inner core.  There is the idea that as unique human beings we should not judge negatively any concept or written idea because it may touch one person and be useless to the masses. 

However, on the otherside.... It is any Positively written article, book or process.   But who decides that it is a Positively written article book or process in the first place.  The natural answer seems to be the person who positively benefits from such written article, book or process... and this is where the problem begins.  Since it then brings into acceptance that countless articles, books or process that have shown themselves to be destructive to people and society.   Since a bare few find benefit in a particular writing for example, even when countless millions of people where destructively affected by it. 

Consider the book Mein Kampf!  Many at time it was written found an ideology they could embrace... but at the expense of so many. 

Fact is... there is many written articles, books and process that are NOT in the best interest of society, groups or individuals.  There are organizations, cults, groups, individuals that have promoted ideas in a variety of means including the written word that is destructive to the many for the benefit of a few.

I don't believe we should foolishly accept because it is of benefit of just one that it is worthy to be printed.  It like all things should stand up to the scrutiny and be fairly judged for it's benefit for individual and society.  In the end, our morals, values and principles will have a decided influence on these types of judgements.  We will continue to consider individual vrs society when we make these kind of judgements.  Should it be written?  yes... I am a believer in Free speech.... but free speech doesn't equate to freely accepted.  Freely judged on it's merits is what I believe what it means... and some will be judged destructive.  Unfortunately, some may suffer before people stop listening to the person selling the poison.

I think it is bullshit that a concept can benefit a few but harm millions... Fortunately some people stood against this concept and far fewer were harmed that could of been otherwise.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts, KOM, and so clearly and patiently.  Sometimes when I'm writing I dash off a thought really quickly without always thinking of the greater overall picture.  That was obviously the case here, as when I said "any positively written article" I was thinking of those that the mass majority would find acceptable and beneficial, rather than those disasterous destructive missives that wreak havok on souls and societies.  Perhaps it is the optimist in me, but my mind doesn't think that way and when I say such things, I guess my glasses are pretty damned rosey because I tend to believe, at least in this general group of people on these boards, that we are generally on the same page when talking about things that are beneficial to the spirit.

You raise a point I did not consider when writing.  I have worked so hard to get out of my own muck, and those around me know me so well as to understand where I am coming from, that I sometimes forget how distorted another's interpretation of my intent can become, due to something I may have communicated poorly.

Having said that, I should restate my statement:  I believe that many articles, books or processes that are put in place with the intent to help people better themselves as  healthy, happy, contributing members of this world, by way of assisting people to find a path to the goodness within themselves, should be applauded.  Those who are striving for joy and peace, both within themselves and outside of themselves should be encouraged to do so, and if helped by even a mere concept put out by someone with positive intentions, then goodness has been done.

I'm not being facetious.  I promote peace and joy.  It took me a hell of a long time to find it myself and when I share my ideas with others, that is always the place I am coming from.  Perfect, I am not. Far from it, in fact.  So I appreciate when my oversights are pointed out with the clarity you gave me.  Thank you for taking the time to do so.  I appreciate it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 10:51:43 PM   
cjan


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OTK, the part of the apple that you don't eat is what you (and I ) "call" a core. The apple , and its core and seeds, etc, are themselves part of an ever changing process that does not stop even after you've eaten the part you wish and discard the rest. The process goes on, never ending.

I agree with the rest of your observations. Nevertheless, dear hope, everything that you refer to is, sorry, process, whether we see it through the naked eye, a mcroscope, or not at all.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How to peel onions? - 3/24/2008 11:07:59 PM   
OTKkindaGirl


Posts: 447
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: NW Arkansas
Status: offline
*smile*   exactly  

everything is a process.... even peeling that proverbial onion.  only through experience do we truly learn.  we can read forever but until we actually "process" and experience we never really know completely. 



_____________________________

~~ lil darlin' ~~
hope



(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 40
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