How to peel onions? (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 1:21:00 AM)

This thread contains a link to an article on the Steel door which, I believe, can be summed up in a single sentence.

"This above all, to thine own self be true."*

To be true to oneself - seems to me that you have to know who that self is before you can be true to it and that means getting past the superficial and down to the nitty gritty. Naked self honesty - peeling the onion, tossing the layers and exposing the core. Anyone who has ever peeled an onion knows it can make you cry. Not everyone knows that you can pop an onion into the freezer for a few minutes though, and that will lessen the chance of you crying. That can be an enumerated step in the process of 'how to' peel an onion.

SimplyMichael had made some very valid points that the article in question didn't explain 'how' to peel back the many layers within oneself in order to expose what is at a person's core. Although there was a lot of gravy around the issue within the context of the article, I must agree with him and state that, in my opinion, there wasn't a whole lot of meat.  

Is it possible to enumerate a process which is applicable to a mass audience in gaining personal insight? Can one, in a written format, give such a 'how to' so most all of us, old or new, dom, sub or switch, alternative or vanilla, etc. etc. have an equal chance at benefitting from such enumeration? Is it arrogant to think that one person has the knowledge, insight and ability to write such a 'how to' which has the potential to be of benefit to a large group of people?

If such is possible, why do you believe it hasn't been done before? If it has been done before, do you think the process worked and is repeatable? Would you, personally, make such an attempt?

If you don't believe it's possible, why not? After all, we, all of us, share a basic human experience going through the same sorts of emotions and even though our personal experiences all differ, isn't peeling an onion just a matter of having the right tool in your possession or is getting to one's inner core too complex a subject, too vast, too full of twists and turns to ever be able to be enumerated in a single 'how to?'

Last but not least - do you believe that one can be true to oneself without a process at all if one knows, instinctively, what their core contains and if so, do you believe that's an exception or a rule?

Celeste

*For bonus points and fame, fortune and infamy, write the 'how to' article for the bolded sentence. [8D]



Justme696 -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 1:59:33 AM)

I love quotes, there is often so much trueth in them. Sadly ..even more often..they are wishes how one would want to be.
You can crave for it..work towards it....but there is always bias/noise in your life...which can't be influenced.

True to your self..hmm...some how it sounds...like.."don't change because of others". BUt if you are open mindend and you do want to change because of some one gave good advise......you even became more yourself.....at least in my opinion...or weren't you true to yourself?

My life will be dynamic till my death...I will never discover my true self...it will just freeze ...when I am gone..that will be the final me I guess...perhaps...the true me..



MasterFireMaam -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 2:19:20 AM)

How to be true to thine own self:

Just be.



Master Fire



lally3 -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 2:41:22 AM)

hi bita

will look again, but cant find the thread.  but., whilst i agree that we all tend to respond in a similar way to experiences, good or bad, everyone is different in how they deal with those responses.  to have a 'how to' on the best way to peel back the layers to expose ourselves could surely only be generalised.

it has taken me years to reach who i am now. at the risk of sounding smug, i love who i am now, but its taken alot of peeling, alot of soul searching and alot of effort.

sometimes peeling is very very painful, sometimes it cant be done in 10 easy steps.  all that crap about looking in the mirror and saying 'i love you, you are wonderful' - is shite, if you feel deep down you dont and youre not.

and sometimes people just cant.  or they cant right now because the layers are just way more than they can face.


Last but not least - do you believe that one can be true to oneself without a process at all if one knows, instinctively, what their core contains and if so, do you believe that's an exception or a rule?

unless your 3 or have lived in a bubble or you are immensely strong and self confident, no.  how can you know youre core without learning its limitations, its boundaries and its vulnerabilities and unless you have learnt these things in a bubble then you will have acquired layers.  i think it would be the exception to live life with such emotional and psychological detatchment.

our own self inflicted wounds we can heal, but it is the wounds inflicted by other people that take alot of time.  before i move on i have to understand the why and the how, my analytical brain insists upon it.  it is part of the peeling process for me, because through understanding another persons motives you can eventually let it go.



WarriorsGirl -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 3:06:22 AM)

I think it's possible because technically, anything is possible.  Even that which we "know" to be true could be a different case in an alternative reality.  That being said....well, yes, I do still think it's possible to find a formula applicable to the masses, hypothetically.  As you said, we are the same with the same emotions, etc.  But it would only be possible if we were to strip away every experience any one of us has ever had.  I am a believer in nurture over nature, that our experiences more than anything else form our choices and our reactions to events in our lives, from the most significant of the death of a loved one to the minute of what we like to eat for breakfast.   

Yes, it's arrogant to think that any one person could come up with this formula because the world as we live in it doesn't allow for it.  (See above.)

We, though,...those of us (that's all of us) who have had experiences and events shape us already....I think, seperate from the process mentioned above, would benefit from a process of some sort.  Some sort of stripping away of those customs and expectations, examples and lessons, needs to take place in order to get close to our bare core.  We would need to turn away from all that we know.  I can't presume to know whether anyone actually ever gets to their bare core or not (as much as our modern day living will allow).  Personally, I think the idea of actually knowing the very core of ourselves is a hypothetical possibility, but in reality, there is just no way to ever really get there.

-Jennifer.



petpete -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 3:11:26 AM)

Just a warning here... when you peeling to many onions you start getting tears in your eyes...



RCdc -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 4:05:43 AM)

I don't believe that an 'how to' essay can be written that most people can relate to or understand or benefit from.  I don't believe anyone should try and write one either.  I find it admirable that people submit essays relating to themselves and how they get to where they are... but not do it thinking, this is what most people will benefit from.
 
Take the onion for example.  If you have severe arthritis, popping an onion into the freezer, might not be the best option.  Popping it into the freezer also can destroy nutrients.  There are numerous ways of peeling an onion so that you don't cry - from running it under water, peeling it in a bowl of fluid, to discarding the root area first because that it the main problem area, or to keep the knife coated in lemon juice.  So what can we learn for this?  That there are many ways to peel an onion, but you have to find the way that fits you as an individual best - not try and emulate anothers path.
 
So yeah, write them - read them by all means - and try them out - but don't follow word for word, but instead take bits of lots of different essays or advice, the bits that work for you in the best order that makes sense to you, and make them work for you and yours.
 
"This above all, to thine own self be true."*

.the.end.

 
the.dark.



Dnomyar -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 4:09:25 AM)

chew gum while peeling onions and you wont get tears in your eyes. It taste better when you leave it on the bed post over night.



TreasureKY -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 4:19:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Is it possible to enumerate a process which is applicable to a mass audience in gaining personal insight? Can one, in a written format, give such a 'how to' so most all of us, old or new, dom, sub or switch, alternative or vanilla, etc. etc. have an equal chance at benefitting from such enumeration? Is it arrogant to think that one person has the knowledge, insight and ability to write such a 'how to' which has the potential to be of benefit to a large group of people?


In answer to all the above... yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

If such is possible, why do you believe it hasn't been done before?


Because at the same time, it is too easy and too hard.  I can give you the tools and basic instructions on how to peel an onion, but each onion is different and each layer is unique... just as is your level of skill and ability.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Would you, personally, make such an attempt?


Okay.   See my attempt below for bonus points and fame, fortune and infamy... though I don't particularly want the infamy part.  [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Last but not least - do you believe that one can be true to oneself without a process at all if one knows, instinctively, what their core contains...?


Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

do you believe that's an exception or a rule?


I think that those who possess the natural talent are an exception, however, I believe many have "stumbled onto" the skill and successfully honed it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

*For bonus points and fame, fortune and infamy, write the 'how to' article for the bolded sentence. [8D]

"This above all, to thine own self be true."

Examine every action you take and reaction you have... every thought, every feeling, every belief... and ask yourself, "why?"  Be completely honest with yourself in your answers.

Make adjustments until you are satisfied and happy with who you are. 

Continue live your life, repeating the above as necessary.


I never said it would be good.  [;)]





TysGalilah -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 4:23:22 AM)

Bita
  I always love your thought processes
smiles..
 
so going with the onion analogy:
 
 ~ peeling an onions skin, doesn't make you cry. yet.
 ~ peeling away the layers when the onion is raw, might bring tears sometimes depending upon the age of the onion.
  ~It is when you cut down into the onion with a knife and penetrate the core that the tears begin.
~ IF you apply warmth and time  ( as in grilling or baking) then the layers open up naturally, bitterness doesn't surface and the noxious oils become neutralized and the taste is sweeter..
 
so, what if that is applied to a person wanting to get to their own core self..
~Layers that are exposed gradually, will come away with fewer tears.
~Prematurely cutting to the core, rather than going through the peeling process, WILL produce noxious results.
~The older the onion with no peeled back layers( few lifelessons or few not learned from), the more bitter the core is.
~Providing yourself with time  to learn, to experience, to evolve  and warmth ( self-kindness, self-respect and self-love) will cause the layers to open on their own and our core will emerge naturally.
 
My life experiences have gone hand in hand with my ability to know my genuine self, it seems.
Some wonderful and some quite painful...but I try not to think of them as regrettable, because each one has peeled back another layer and I've been allowed to see a part of me I most likely wouldn't have without the experience.
 
Some days I feel pretty enlightened and then other days I feel naive still ( somedays just plain stupid), realizing I still have much to learn and more layers still exist, I am not quite to my core-self.
 
But, my journey there cannot be copied by others.  If I were to write a book about my life experiences and then call it a self-help book and tell others to do exactly what I did  ( Gawd help them!) they would not end up in the same place I am right now.  You cannot teach someone how to FEEL or react to those feelings.  You can instruct someone to learn , but you cannot teach them how to comprehend it, absorb it, think, feel or apply those lessons to themselves and their lives.  That is individual and rightly so.
 
  I believe we are ready to learn when we are ready to learn.  We become aware of what we are able to cope with and handle.  The mind and the psyche protects us from the rest, until we are ready to deal.
 Hence the bitterness and tears when a knife cuts through to the core of an onion before the layers have been allowed to be peeled away.
 
 
  So to write an essay or a book advising others how to feel their submission....how to feel love...how to feel their feelings....how to find their core-self.......imo,just cannot be done.
Everyone experiences those things in their own way and in their own time. 

So, on one of those enlightened days I have sometimes, I may be able to give  definition to the way I feel or what submission means or feels like, or what love is and feels like > but that is only my definition according to my life-experiences, not anyone elses..
 
Some things in life are like corduroy
  You might be able to teach someone how to recognize it, but you cannot teach them how to feel it...only experiencing the feeling defines that experience for them.
 
Cyndi
 



littlebitxxx -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 6:38:48 AM)

I agree with all the sentiments here but wonder.....if one was to write a "how to", wouldn't most everyone just follow the list of instructions blindly without really thinking and applying to themselves?  Tab A into Slot B and voila! A perfect person is built!  The list wouldn't apply to everyone through all things so many would still be left with lots of unanswered questions, unwanted feelings, and undiscovered traumas.

"If you give a man a fish, he'll eat today.  If you teach a man to fish, he'll eat for the rest of his life."  No idea who said that to give proper credit.  But it remains true....why do so many want to be spoon-fed with "how to" lists and techniques instead of doing the work of finding out for themselves?



cjan -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 7:54:36 AM)

"How to" guides for things like peeling onions and fixing faucets, etc., can be very helpful. There are many "How to" guides for living that are less so. Many people seem to want a road map for life. There is none. It's a journey and an adventure full of risk and reward, but one each of us has to take on his/her own. Yes, there are guideposts and, hopefully, friends, teachers and mentors that can help one keep from mucking it up unessecarily.

Even though we each travel our own path, we are all just bozos on the bus and can help each other along the bumpy ride, and that can give one some comfort on the journey.



subtee -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 8:39:29 AM)

It seems to me a general audience would need a set of generalized suggestions (not instructions because we all “walk a path,” but none of us is on the same path as another).
 
For example, for myself I would say such things as listening more, talking less, (to myself). Don’t push to understand, but be receptive to understanding. Look carefully at the choices and from what parts of myself they have been generated, but open my own heart to myself to look at them without judgment, as much as is possible. Like that.
 
However, there is something to be said, I think, for letting the process and the self unfold rather naturally, with little peeling and prodding. I rather believe we all know ourselves intimately but not all is revealed to us—probably ever. Self understanding, with increasing depth comes with years, tears, pain, joy, acceptance, experience, breaking down, soaring….
 
But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure;
And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding line.
For self is a sea boundless and measureless.
Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the soul walking upon my path."
For the soul walks upon all paths.
The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.
The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals.   ---Gibran
 
Finally, there is one very close to me who, it seems to me, profoundly “knows herself”—to her core. I don’t know if it is a function of instinct. However, it seems to me even with this self knowledge, neither she nor any of the rest of us are immune from stumbling along the path of “to thine ownself be true.”
 
A good onion, at its core, will cause tears, no matter how frozen we try to make it.



crouchingtigress -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 8:41:08 AM)

I just read a "how to" on another site, by another author, about a week ago and asked the very same questions.

My thoughts are that yeah it is a little arrogant to be honest, but then who is not guilty of being a little arrogant every now and then?

To me this process is a journey, and the stuff i wrote about slavery 20 years ago looks nothing like the stuff i wrote 10 years ago, and that looks nothing like what i wrote in my LJ last week.

The guy who was writing the "how to" i read, wrote in such a matter of fact way, that described the three types of submissives, and their core motivation factors, and to be honest i laughed. i thought it was so rudimentary, and although he got some key points of submission, and he offered interesting thoughts as to aspects of each, i found that his simplistic way of generalizing, was a tad arrogant.

Yet, i still think there is value in folks writing about their journey, and trying to make it fit into neat little boxes in their heads. i think there is value to reading other folks who put things in to little boxes as well, because you never know when that little light goes off and you see something in a new way that gives your experience a wider context.

So yes it can be annoying to have folks tell you "how to be a submissive", what you are as submissive, what categories you fit in to as a submissive, or as a Dom.....but i just take it with a grain of salt, and assume that they are exploring and thinking out loud, and as long as they are not holding a gun to my head to read or agree i am OK with a little arrogance every now and then, in fact i have sort of come to expect it from authors that self identify as dominant .....(ooops prolly should not have said that last bit out loud)



Justme696 -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 8:48:27 AM)

I don't dislike how to's, aslong it is not about humans. I want a person to be herself/himself. Not what she reads.



SimplyMichael -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 9:10:18 AM)

People who don't think books can teach you anything are nuts and that  you can only learn in person from another.  Well if someone can teach  you in person then, in theory someone can teach you something in a book.

I say that and my ability due to my AD/HD to learn from books sucks compared to many others.

There is a fundamentally more difficult problem in learning how to do BDSM as opposed to say surgery or woodworking in that one is a skill  unrelated on most levels to who we are.  Doing BDSM, at least how I do it, requires a long term relationship and so what you are learning to do is wrapped up deeply in who you are, what your issues are, your relationship patterns, your level of self awareness, not to mention your partners.

So Bita, to answer your questions, I don't think anyone has written that book but I am going to attempt it.  I know what I was looking for in the way of a "how to be a healthy dominant" wasn't out there and it should be. 

quote:

  "This above all, to thine own self be true."*


This isn't going to be complete but this is how I would write it.

Since to be true to yourself requires not only knowing who it is you are it makes a couple of other assumptions, that people don't change (while you can't force someone to change, they can change if they want to) and that people are ready to be who they are and that they are in an environment that allows them to be who they are and whether or not they should be who they are.

So, since people are in various stages of life, one would either have to find a way to address various stages of life/self awareness or pick one.  I would pick one, a mid 30s sort of age, emerging but unsure self awareness, starting to see patterns but unable to understand what they mean.  Basically, where I started when I entered bdsm.

I like the book "the four agreements" but never read it till I didn't need it because it was too full of high sounding bs and fake made up sounding spirituality.  However, looking past what made it hard for me to read, it covers some excellent ground. 

I would hook someone's attention with what a relationship could be like and describe mine.  Then I would ask them to sit down and write out a rough chronology of relationships and ask what warning signs they ignored, what went right and what went wrong in each of them and what lessons and changes they went through after the relationship ended.  I might even cheat and suggest that they see a counselor to discuss those issue as it is hard to see your own issues because they are invisible to us.   Perhaps have them corner a few close friends and ask them to review the self-diagnosis/personal view and see how accurate it is.

Why all this?  Because if you aren't perfect, do you really want to be a true "awkward insecure teenage boy" for the rest of your life?  I don't see casting myself in concrete as being true to myself.  In addition, asking how friends see you forces you to start the process of seeing who you are and being proud enough of that to discuss it.

Well I don't want to give away the surprise ending but this is enough I think to show that you could write a book on how to do some of this.  No book will work for everyone but the right book can and has worked for people.  There are woodworking books I bought because I thought they were amazing and as I learned I realized they didn't actually show you the hard parts and others that I didn't at first love that I realize as I learned how valuable what they contain really is because they DO show you what you need to know.

The hard part is writing as if you know nothing so that  you explain everything and yet keeping the writing clear enough that someone can get from A to say M without needing a seven volume set!



ownedgirlie -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 9:44:36 AM)

Ha - leave it to you, Bita.  :)

I don't believe a single essay, or even a book, can be written.  I believe people are touched by different things.  Some people see the ocean and all its greatness and feel humbled by it.  Some see it and are afraid of it.  Some aren't affected at all by it.  And so it goes.

This is why there are SO MANY books, and speakers, and articles, and methods of therapy, etc. etc...because we are all touched and affected by different things.  Advice that helps one person tremendously looks like bullshit to someone else.  The human psyche is so complex, and there are an infinite number of paths from with to choose to travel into it. 

And, a person has to be willing and determined to travel there.  Short of waving a magic wand, unless someone is willing to remove all the roadblocks and baggage that are in the way, the destination of "thine own self" can not be reached.  One must be willing to be vulnerable with oneself to get there.  And there is no single "how to" method to achieve that because what makes one vulnerable is different for all of us.

My own path took me years to travel, and was scary as hell and even harder than it was scary.  It  cost me tears, anxiety, personal loss, and fascinating, overwhelming self discoveries.  To get there I read, I therapied, I submitted to my Master, and I sought the counseling of trusted friends and family members.  I could write a book about how I personally arrived, and it might be a path that others find success in, but it will also be a path that others will find bullshit in. 

In other words, giving a Buddhist a how-to book that details how Christ is the way to one's inner core, would be futile.  Showing the way to a logical, analytical, technical "geek" by explaining mystical concepts would also be likely to be futile.  Different audiences require different avenues and there is no single-handed way to reach all people.  Religious efforts alone tell us that.

This is why I applaud any positively written article, book or process that offers an approach to find ones inner core - whether it be a concept or written detail.  One never knows what will touch someone else, so to call bullshit on even offering up a "meatless" concept is, in my opinion, destructive.

Awesome thread, Celeste.   It got the juices flowing for me this morning. 

Mental juices, you perv!!  [8D]



SimplyMichael -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 10:49:30 AM)

quote:

One never knows what will touch someone else, so to call bullshit on even offering up a "meatless" concept is, in my opinion, destructive.


So then you support all cults, every self help book and guru, and consider all of it to be equally valuable with everything else?  You have no standards at all and consider any criticism of any of it to be destructive?

Then gladly count me in as destructive because as an intelligent insightful adult, I can look at things that might not work for me and yet recognize that they might work for another.  However, I can see things like scientology and Jim Jones as well as many self help books to be complete scams at best and the more destructive to those things I can be, the better.




ownedgirlie -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 11:02:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

One never knows what will touch someone else, so to call bullshit on even offering up a "meatless" concept is, in my opinion, destructive.


So then you support all cults, every self help book and guru, and consider all of it to be equally valuable with everything else?  You have no standards at all and consider any criticism of any of it to be destructive?


Where the hell did you get that from my post??   

quote:


Then gladly count me in as destructive because as an intelligent insightful adult, I can look at things that might not work for me and yet recognize that they might work for another.  However, I can see things like scientology and Jim Jones as well as many self help books to be complete scams at best and the more destructive to those things I can be, the better.


Actually I think you are destructive, but not for those reasons.





Edited to add: Michael, this is the 2nd time in as many days that you have quoted me out of context, omitting important aspects of what I said (you forgot to include the preceding sentence of mine which specified a positive path to one's inner core).  Are you looking for problems to create?  What is your point, exactly?



Justme696 -> RE: How to peel onions? (3/24/2008 11:43:44 AM)

quote:

There is a fundamentally more difficult problem in learning how to do BDSM as opposed to say surgery or woodworking in that one is a skill  unrelated on most levels to who we are.  Doing BDSM, at least how I do it, requires a long term relationship and so what you are learning to do is wrapped up deeply in who you are, what your issues are, your relationship patterns, your level of self awareness, not to mention your partners.

you didn't describe BDSM   you described life itself


and to show you my wishdom
I buy my unions..chopped.... ;)  no peeling needed :P



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