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"Why the US is collapsing" - 3/24/2008 10:11:58 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am not sure what to think of this blog post, thought it could be an interesting conversation starter...

Saturday, March 22, 2008

"Why the US is collapsing"


" Hello, visitors from Digg, Reddit, StumbleUpon, and Slashdot. Summary in one paragraph: This is the leader of the Swedish Pirate Party explaining how the US went bankrupt in 1971, and has been covering it up through an accelerating whack-a-mole borrowing frenzy that is bursting right now. It has been paying rapidly growing VISA bills using MasterCard and vice versa for 37 years. The creditors are catching up, and the US is about to go extinct as a superpower. Become irrelevant. " http://falkvinge.com/2008/03/why-us-is-collapsing.html

(format edit)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 3/24/2008 10:13:59 PM >

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/24/2008 10:21:16 PM   
SirRober


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		Dunno but I have ideas to help fix the budget.

1. conditional welfare.
   a. work 6 years for 6 mos of benfits.
   b. only get help for up to 4 dependents period. Once any or all of the orignal 4 leave house you don't get more money.
   c. random drug screening to pick up check.

2. Pay the senators and house of rep. the same as the pres. no more.

3. State and federal. no visa, no id {equals} no money, no help

4. SSI only paid to those  who have worked(20+ years) and legitimate disablity's 

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/24/2008 11:55:01 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's an interesting read, and precisely why I've been slowly accumulating 90% silver US coins in various denominations, a few gold coins, and lately... a few thousand pre-1982 copper pennies.

There's a good chance that the shit will hit the fan in my lifetime. If it does, I'll at least be in a better position than most to be able to buy some food and other basic necessities for a while, until the panic subsides and a new system is installed. 

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 2:51:45 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRober

Dunno but I have ideas to help fix the budget.

1. conditional welfare.
  a. work 6 years for 6 mos of benfits.
  b. only get help for up to 4 dependents period. Once any or all of the orignal 4 leave house you don't get more money.
  c. random drug screening to pick up check.

2. Pay the senators and house of rep. the same as the pres. no more.

3. State and federal. no visa, no id {equals} no money, no help

4. SSI only paid to those  who have worked(20+ years) and legitimate disablity's 


Oh right. And picking on the poorest members of society is going to reform the whole economy right?

And what about the people who quite legitimately can't fulfill these requirements but need help? Are you okay with such people and their children starving and living in even greater poverty?

How about withdrawing the troops from Iraq and reforming healthcare to ensure that everyone has access to adequate healthcare?

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:19:28 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		With the amount of wealth that foreign investers have in the United States, the financial system will not be allowed to crash. Such a thing would be devastating to the world, not just the US. The world would fall into depression....even China whose economy is very dependent on US consumer markets and US corporate investment. Eventually their wealth fund would dry up rather quickly. In the mid-east, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have millions of dollars in the US system. And UAE just recently bought out a bank struggling in the mortgage crisis.

The world is not like 1930 or even 1970. This is a very complex and integrated economy. It is not like it used to be where one nation has a depression and someone benefits. That's not how it works anymore. Everyone right now is so linked that if one big nation falls, it will start to pull down everyone else.

Some argue this situation will actually prevent World War 3. That no nation can really wage a major war against another superpower without destroying their own economy in the process. A war between the US and China for example would be absolutely devastating on both sides and the world.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 3/25/2008 6:22:31 AM >

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:34:03 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRober

Dunno but I have ideas to help fix the budget.

1. conditional welfare.
  a. work 6 years for 6 mos of benfits.
  b. only get help for up to 4 dependents period. Once any or all of the orignal 4 leave house you don't get more money.
  c. random drug screening to pick up check.

2. Pay the senators and house of rep. the same as the pres. no more.

3. State and federal. no visa, no id {equals} no money, no help

4. SSI only paid to those  who have worked(20+ years) and legitimate disablity's 


What a noble program  .

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:41:52 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Personally, I think America is collapsing because of all the beer it drinks.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:43:35 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Personally, I think America is collapsing because of all the beer it drinks.


HEY now! Don't blame this country's problems on me!
*burrrrp*

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:46:52 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Personally, I think America is collapsing because of all the beer it drinks.


You might be on to something....some blame Russia's collapse on Vodka.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:47:06 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
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Status: offline 		Yeah, hate to say it GT but people have been talking about you.  You just don't hear it because you're singing.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:48:44 AM   
RealityLicks


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Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

You might be on to something....some blame Russia's collapse on Vodka.


Yeay, Yeltsin was quite the party animal after a wet.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:55:42 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		All those bloody dictators have a ball at their "reunions au sommet" - have you seen the vid of Sarkozy at the G8? He nearly puked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5MPg01T3gE&feature=related





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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:57:37 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Oh wait, isn't he due in London?

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 6:59:12 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yep. Park your women somewhere safe, I hear he goes at it like a rabbit  .

What a man.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:01:47 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		He's a short, angry man.  We don't attract the same sort of women.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:06:25 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

You might be on to something....some blame Russia's collapse on Vodka.


Yeay, Yeltsin was quite the party animal after a wet.


I know someone from Russia and he told me the rumor that is still believed to be true is that Yeltsin was drunk to the point of passing out when Gorbachev handed over control of the nukes.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:07:18 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		He's very vain. I wonder if he didn't contribute to the collapse of the USA by snogging Bush when he visited Maine, last summer. Bad karma and all that. (Desperately trying to stay on topic, Vendaval .)



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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:29:08 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		I really get tired of people blaming economic woes on welfare.  It's the classic grade school game of "it wasn't me -- it was them."  As has already been pointed out, welfare pays for children not adults.  Please refer to this table http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/social-welfare-spending04/summary.htm to see what the government spends on "social programs."  You will see that cash assistance accounts for very little ($21 billion).  We spend more on bailing out industries such as the $130 billion just to bailout the Savings and Loan industry in the 90s, $13 billion a year just to subsidize the airline industry, or the $25 billion in farm subsidies alone.  Now I'm not suggesting that the government helping out industries is bad.  If the farmers quit farming we loose the ability to grow our own food and a lot of people end up unemployed.  Similar problems would occur if the airline, auto or banking industries failed.  The real problems exist in the people -- that's right it's you and me Joe citizen.

The problem pointed out in the (suspiciously one sided) link by the OP is that of trade deficit.  We buy more than we sell and in the end global economies are basically a big goods for goods exchange.  Why do we have a trade deficit?  Well we seem to believe on the whole that it is our right to each own a car, computer, annually new wardrobe, big screen TV and any number of new shiny toys to play with.  Since most of us have middle class incomes we can't afford for those products to be made in the US.  The reason we can't afford for them to be made domestically is that we all have to have salaries to afford those same goods.  It's some bad economic circle jerk.  The farms are in trouble because we can't pay full price for groceries since we have to also eat out 5 times a week.  The airlines are in trouble because the have to sell cheap tickets so we can all (I know "all" is an exaggeration) go to Vegas a few times a year just like we see on TV.  Manufacturing is in trouble because every man woman and child in the country has to have a 42 inch flat screen TV in their bedroom and to be able to afford it they can only be made by cheap labor (from countries where they don't all have flat screen TVs).  The banks are in trouble because we all had to live in houses that were too expensive for us to afford.  Note that not one of those problems is caused by the poor (immigrant or not) but by Joe average citizen.

So in other words if we would quit being fat, lazy, self-entitled Americans and start putting in a hard days work for a fair pay instead of trying to live like the "rich and famous" (damn you Robin Leeach, it's all your fault) then we might be able to live within our national means.

(taking a deep breath and climbing down from my soapbox)

Hallelujah, Amen


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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:32:48 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		It might be the fact that Washington appears to be developing a totalitarian regime and people just don't see it, or refuse to see it.

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RE: "Why the US is collapsing" - 3/25/2008 7:41:44 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Indeed.

I think the US will ultimately fail because since WWll it's pursued a policy of global domination which failed to take several important factors into account.  America's planners devised methods of controlling what was called the "Grand Area", Western Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa and gaining influence in new regions as possible.  Africa and Asia were to supply raw materials and Japan and Germany were set up as the "workshops" to facilitate American corporate expansion, hence the heavy investment in both.  Chomsky is the best writer I know on this.  http://www.zmag.org/CHOMSKY/sam/sam-1-3.html

European domination of Africa was seen as a psychological boost for them after the bruising war years.  No-one bargained on the increase in travel and ideas between territories and the rise in non-aligned politics in the "Third World". This increasing self-awareness has had to be managed by a series of wars, coups and unfair trade arrangements which have been less and less effective at forcing coercion and now result in countries in Asia and the ME as well as others holding significant strategic control over the financial fortunes of America itself.

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